Hi @HealingMama . Please, first of all, disregard what doesn't resonate with you below. I'm only offering this is in the hope it might be helpful. Especially as per teasing apart ADHD and PTSD. (@Friday is superb at that. It is also only from my perspective, what I've experienced or learned, and not reading all the posts above (since, in that case, for me it seems the PTSD interferes. JMHGuess).
The best way I've learned to tease things apart is this: as childhood trauma mimics ADHD, it is critical to tease out. ADHD however is most frequently developmental. Perhaps the wrong term to use but by that I mean consistent through the lifespan. Even if there is hyperactivity and it physically abates, 'mental hyperactivity' is present. It also has a very strong genetic component. Furthermore, it may also be inattentive or combined type. Studies have shown as high as 100% of people with ADD (nomenclature that includes ADHD), self report Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. That may be experienced also as for eg, terrible intolerance for sounds like someone chewing. But most of all it is experienced in response to real or perceived rejection. I would personally describe it as more of a sensitivity or anxiety, assuming the worst but without huge running internal dialogue of cognitive distortions, or self-justification. It helps to learn much more about it, as I think you said you and your H (?) both have it. I think they said it can appear in about 14 million combinations! I believe there are 7 executive functions that can be primarily affected. Emotional disregulation proper is no longer a criteria, but many of the top researchers say that is totally inaccurate, and the #1 thing most struggle with. The biggest difference I would say there, is if it is a Personality disorder or something else co-morbid, it doesn't make sense that emotions could change more fluidly with different thoughts or distractions (more common with ADD). And people with ADD (so they say) are quicker to also forgive. For example, there may be the blow up but less the continuing resentment (though that's not a great way to describe it as we can all choose to nurse resentment). I relate to the 20 cups of coffee and a pack and 1/2 of cigarettes improving concentration and reducing anxiety, since it refines focus. ADD is badly named- it's not lack of attention but attention to too many things. If you can check out the new VAST terminology suggested by Ned Hallowell, really amazing stuff and I think way more accurate. (But even he says, 'we all need the other Vitamin C- Connection').
On the other hand, JMHO but PTSD is darker, specific, and intertwined with a lot of beliefs and past memories. A trigger isn't necessarily meaningful on the surface, but it is loaded within the context of trauma, whether it's a cookie, or a carpet type, or the sound of wind banging a piece of metal. The thoughts within the present espouse a logic which would make sense 'within' the trauma, but not in the current moment. The underlying feelings of fear , horror, inability to escape or stop it- those are sort of what I feel. A sickness to the stomach. The stress cup fully applies, and I would say very differently than temptations to emotional disregulation with ADD. Because the meaning is different. The emotions can be the same superficially, but the thought process not entirely. Overwhelm, vs terror or flight-or-fight, for example. Longer-term reptilian brain results, I would call it. 'Issues' vs genetic life-long propensity and sensitivity.
However, on the other hand, now you also have to factor in attachment style. Becoming afraid or activated in response to your H is less avoidant than it is anxious, if that is what you routinely react to, or more specifically how you routinely react. And disorganized attachment is both fearful and avoidant. Avoidant people usually feel overwhelmed physiologically pretty quickly and shut down rather than activate, or leave because they don't feel worthy of their partner. The exception to this rule is for people primarily avoidant (all is a spectrum) they can be more activated if the perception is that trust is broken, because they do not routinely share or trust many (or any) others. But even then there is less long term attempts to activate because of subconscious fear, including fear of abandonment- one does not seek out what one expects to fail, or thinks doesn't exist. Plus, avoidant attachment inclined people expect to own their own stuff, and the other person to do the same. Similarly, we can be a combination of attachment styles: I know I come out about 70% avoidant, 25 % fearful avoidant and 5% anxious, though it can be changed and I have become a wee bit more secure, I think. Small increments with healing and a few good and forgiving people. Attachment is neither wrong or right, it just 'is', and it's malleable. It applies to all relationships: family, partner, friends, work associates. It can be different for different relationships. It is often least secure the closer one is because of increased vulnerability. However, the dyadic of 2 people influences each other. So, for example, if both are anxious one may become less so, by soothing the other.
But- and this is perhaps the biggest part where the rubber meets the road: for every relationship a person has to work to make it work. Gottman and other researchers have as much as said, if you want better quality it's really necessary to examine yourself and how you think of and treat the other person, all the time. The clearest example of this to me is also something easily seen in conflict resolution and effective communication. For example, take defensiveness: if one person says, 'you always are whining', the other person often says, 'No I'm not!' (i.e. whining). They do not usually think/ say, 'help me to understand what you mean', or 'I am sorry I've been self-absorbed and focused on my own trials and not yours', etc. So when we say, "You do not care", we probably are acting in the exact same way- we have not been caring of the other person, have missed their cues or misunderstand their needs and challenges. (If your H is avoidant and overstimulated he likely finds it hard to share. Impossible, if it will be shot down). This goes both ways. But in this case, you are on the same side. And by the sound of it under plenty of pressure with child-rearing, etc. Even there, the likelihood any of your children having ADD too, is very great, as are sleep issues, which you may be seeing.
One caveat, I think people with ADD, or anything they've had for life, for that matter, or people who do 'not' have it i.e, have 'not' had it for life, don't assume others think or perceive the world differently than they do themself. But the experiences day to day are very different for someone with ADD than without. Equally, if someone has a very anxious attachment, when that is 'triggered' (I do not mean trigger as in PTSD, but rather threatened to be removed), they frequently react seemingly outside of their control (not their fault but still their responsibility to examine and address.) Now, it's easier to have someone respect and try to meet the other person 1/2 way, but the other person has to communicate and be fair too, everyone has their struggles. I do have to disagree as regards independence and attachment; from what I've learned interdependence is the truest, healthiest form. When it comes to PTSD however (to me), it's outright trauma and fear and cognitive distortions to the max. It needs trauma processing, and all the Time-Timers or attempts at distraction in the world won't change it, whether it's drinking, drugs, overwork, running, self-blame, blaming others, etc. From the bit I've learned of treatment resistant depression/ SI/ PTSD, self-compassion has to be learned through regulating one another.
When it comes to Gottman, he's really saying being vulnerable and attune to one another. Not to spend the time with contempt or blame, but understanding of the other and looking at the world a bit through their eyes. I don't think healthy support of one another is ever a bad thing, but I think most of us need help learning how to give it, receive and cherish it, or both. And much depends on whether we have experienced inter-relational trauma, and what work we need to do. Sometimes the easiest part is just shelving all the thinking, doing some self-care, getting what you can within yourself in order. And just saying, 'I love you', if you mean it. Not, 'I love you' (for what you can do for me). There are worst places to start. We don't have any day guaranteed (says both My Traumas and reality). There might be something to be thankful for.
This is not to say that it is wrong to leave a relationship. nor is it a given that the other person really genuinely does care for you, or can or is even able to put in the work. Nor is everyone a good fit, nor can some people tolerate (let alone love-despite-it or love-even-with-it) what are the realities of ADD, PTSD, or even particular attachment styles. And that is ok. People all deserve to be with someone who wants to be with them, and appreciates them, is what I figure.
Sorry for the long read, if you made it this far. (I likely couldn't!) Hope something is helpful, it's miserable to be suffering and unsure but that can be a great moment for growth, +/ or learning. (And PTSD often makes that feel impossible, because we are 'there', not here, though we look like we're here. But I can say for myself in my gut, heart, thoughts and conclusions- those times to greater or lesser degree, usually greater, I'm not in 'today', at all. JMHO.) Best wishes to you.
The best way I've learned to tease things apart is this: as childhood trauma mimics ADHD, it is critical to tease out. ADHD however is most frequently developmental. Perhaps the wrong term to use but by that I mean consistent through the lifespan. Even if there is hyperactivity and it physically abates, 'mental hyperactivity' is present. It also has a very strong genetic component. Furthermore, it may also be inattentive or combined type. Studies have shown as high as 100% of people with ADD (nomenclature that includes ADHD), self report Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. That may be experienced also as for eg, terrible intolerance for sounds like someone chewing. But most of all it is experienced in response to real or perceived rejection. I would personally describe it as more of a sensitivity or anxiety, assuming the worst but without huge running internal dialogue of cognitive distortions, or self-justification. It helps to learn much more about it, as I think you said you and your H (?) both have it. I think they said it can appear in about 14 million combinations! I believe there are 7 executive functions that can be primarily affected. Emotional disregulation proper is no longer a criteria, but many of the top researchers say that is totally inaccurate, and the #1 thing most struggle with. The biggest difference I would say there, is if it is a Personality disorder or something else co-morbid, it doesn't make sense that emotions could change more fluidly with different thoughts or distractions (more common with ADD). And people with ADD (so they say) are quicker to also forgive. For example, there may be the blow up but less the continuing resentment (though that's not a great way to describe it as we can all choose to nurse resentment). I relate to the 20 cups of coffee and a pack and 1/2 of cigarettes improving concentration and reducing anxiety, since it refines focus. ADD is badly named- it's not lack of attention but attention to too many things. If you can check out the new VAST terminology suggested by Ned Hallowell, really amazing stuff and I think way more accurate. (But even he says, 'we all need the other Vitamin C- Connection').
On the other hand, JMHO but PTSD is darker, specific, and intertwined with a lot of beliefs and past memories. A trigger isn't necessarily meaningful on the surface, but it is loaded within the context of trauma, whether it's a cookie, or a carpet type, or the sound of wind banging a piece of metal. The thoughts within the present espouse a logic which would make sense 'within' the trauma, but not in the current moment. The underlying feelings of fear , horror, inability to escape or stop it- those are sort of what I feel. A sickness to the stomach. The stress cup fully applies, and I would say very differently than temptations to emotional disregulation with ADD. Because the meaning is different. The emotions can be the same superficially, but the thought process not entirely. Overwhelm, vs terror or flight-or-fight, for example. Longer-term reptilian brain results, I would call it. 'Issues' vs genetic life-long propensity and sensitivity.
However, on the other hand, now you also have to factor in attachment style. Becoming afraid or activated in response to your H is less avoidant than it is anxious, if that is what you routinely react to, or more specifically how you routinely react. And disorganized attachment is both fearful and avoidant. Avoidant people usually feel overwhelmed physiologically pretty quickly and shut down rather than activate, or leave because they don't feel worthy of their partner. The exception to this rule is for people primarily avoidant (all is a spectrum) they can be more activated if the perception is that trust is broken, because they do not routinely share or trust many (or any) others. But even then there is less long term attempts to activate because of subconscious fear, including fear of abandonment- one does not seek out what one expects to fail, or thinks doesn't exist. Plus, avoidant attachment inclined people expect to own their own stuff, and the other person to do the same. Similarly, we can be a combination of attachment styles: I know I come out about 70% avoidant, 25 % fearful avoidant and 5% anxious, though it can be changed and I have become a wee bit more secure, I think. Small increments with healing and a few good and forgiving people. Attachment is neither wrong or right, it just 'is', and it's malleable. It applies to all relationships: family, partner, friends, work associates. It can be different for different relationships. It is often least secure the closer one is because of increased vulnerability. However, the dyadic of 2 people influences each other. So, for example, if both are anxious one may become less so, by soothing the other.
But- and this is perhaps the biggest part where the rubber meets the road: for every relationship a person has to work to make it work. Gottman and other researchers have as much as said, if you want better quality it's really necessary to examine yourself and how you think of and treat the other person, all the time. The clearest example of this to me is also something easily seen in conflict resolution and effective communication. For example, take defensiveness: if one person says, 'you always are whining', the other person often says, 'No I'm not!' (i.e. whining). They do not usually think/ say, 'help me to understand what you mean', or 'I am sorry I've been self-absorbed and focused on my own trials and not yours', etc. So when we say, "You do not care", we probably are acting in the exact same way- we have not been caring of the other person, have missed their cues or misunderstand their needs and challenges. (If your H is avoidant and overstimulated he likely finds it hard to share. Impossible, if it will be shot down). This goes both ways. But in this case, you are on the same side. And by the sound of it under plenty of pressure with child-rearing, etc. Even there, the likelihood any of your children having ADD too, is very great, as are sleep issues, which you may be seeing.
One caveat, I think people with ADD, or anything they've had for life, for that matter, or people who do 'not' have it i.e, have 'not' had it for life, don't assume others think or perceive the world differently than they do themself. But the experiences day to day are very different for someone with ADD than without. Equally, if someone has a very anxious attachment, when that is 'triggered' (I do not mean trigger as in PTSD, but rather threatened to be removed), they frequently react seemingly outside of their control (not their fault but still their responsibility to examine and address.) Now, it's easier to have someone respect and try to meet the other person 1/2 way, but the other person has to communicate and be fair too, everyone has their struggles. I do have to disagree as regards independence and attachment; from what I've learned interdependence is the truest, healthiest form. When it comes to PTSD however (to me), it's outright trauma and fear and cognitive distortions to the max. It needs trauma processing, and all the Time-Timers or attempts at distraction in the world won't change it, whether it's drinking, drugs, overwork, running, self-blame, blaming others, etc. From the bit I've learned of treatment resistant depression/ SI/ PTSD, self-compassion has to be learned through regulating one another.
When it comes to Gottman, he's really saying being vulnerable and attune to one another. Not to spend the time with contempt or blame, but understanding of the other and looking at the world a bit through their eyes. I don't think healthy support of one another is ever a bad thing, but I think most of us need help learning how to give it, receive and cherish it, or both. And much depends on whether we have experienced inter-relational trauma, and what work we need to do. Sometimes the easiest part is just shelving all the thinking, doing some self-care, getting what you can within yourself in order. And just saying, 'I love you', if you mean it. Not, 'I love you' (for what you can do for me). There are worst places to start. We don't have any day guaranteed (says both My Traumas and reality). There might be something to be thankful for.
This is not to say that it is wrong to leave a relationship. nor is it a given that the other person really genuinely does care for you, or can or is even able to put in the work. Nor is everyone a good fit, nor can some people tolerate (let alone love-despite-it or love-even-with-it) what are the realities of ADD, PTSD, or even particular attachment styles. And that is ok. People all deserve to be with someone who wants to be with them, and appreciates them, is what I figure.
Sorry for the long read, if you made it this far. (I likely couldn't!) Hope something is helpful, it's miserable to be suffering and unsure but that can be a great moment for growth, +/ or learning. (And PTSD often makes that feel impossible, because we are 'there', not here, though we look like we're here. But I can say for myself in my gut, heart, thoughts and conclusions- those times to greater or lesser degree, usually greater, I'm not in 'today', at all. JMHO.) Best wishes to you.
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