Help me understand what went wrong (new therapist)

[RainbowSearchParty]

I just had a meeting with a new potential therapist and it went so, so badly. I walked out of the room before the end, badly. I don’t know what went wrong and I’m so overwhelmed because there just are so few trauma therapists in this country and I feel like I just blew it. I wanted it to work out, but no.

Basically, I couldn’t answer one of her questions near the end. Overwhelmed, plus I didn’t know. Actually didn’t know. And I made an off the cuff comment on how I didn’t have an answer, and she proceeded to tell me that I was being aggressive and violating her boundaries. And then, no matter what I said about not meaning to come off as such, about it potentially being a cultural miscommunication, she wouldn’t let it go. At all. And there is no way I can let parts talk to someone who acts like that. It just felt like she couldn’t self regulate and needed me to do it for her, and no. Not interested. So I left.

I’m not an aggressive person, not at all. I know that. But I also can’t figure out how she got so, so upset and what I think was just a casual comment? And I feel badly about walking out (I did explain why I was leaving) but I also just felt like my mind was decided and I had nothing left to say, and I wasn’t interested in sitting there and having her infantalize me anymore.

Plus, I had to protect my young parts. If she couldn’t handle an everyday conversation, what would happen if things got rough? Or a part said something I wasn’t aware of? And she clearly had no idea about DID despite her advertising that she had experience, which just tracks with how I experience this medical system as not what I need or want.

I’m just so frustrated. And upset that I paid her far too much money for a disaster.

 

[sidptitala]

This is really not a nice feeling. I´ve been there too (recently) and got some helpful feedback on this forum. It was most helpful when I got really specific. Which is why I´m going to ask:

I don’t know what went wrong and I’m so overwhelmed because there just are so few trauma therapists in this country and I feel like I just blew it. I wanted it to work out, but no.

I also can’t figure out how she got so, so upset and what I think was just a casual comment?

What exactly did she say? What exactly did you say?

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

Okay. I went on a long, long walk and feel a little better. I don't like what happened but also I couldn't have worked with this person. She's the one I wrote a post about last summer when she didn't return my email for weeks, and then when I reached back out, she sent me a snarky reply that made me just feel weird and strange -- like the email was defensive and not positive. So that's how it started.

And through this intro session today, she was just so robotic. No warmth at all. She wanted a family history from me right away and I tried to side step it. But she wouldn't give up so I eventually just told her flat out no. Not now. Because my family history is super complicated and I'm not willing to get into it with someone that I might not work with. As soon as that fell out of my mouth, I knew I didn't want to work with her, because what trauma specialist doesn't understand how complicated families can be? But I also wanted to just finish the session, and then reflect, before officially making that call.

She also didn't seem to understand when I told her that I was relatively stable in my day to day life, but experiencing high external stress, so I wanted therapy in order to remain stable. She seemed baffled and asked me why I wanted therapy if I was stable. UMMMM maybe so I can stay this way? I think this was cultural misunderstanding #1. I think this is a common approach to therapy in the US, but maybe not in the country I'm in? Not sure on that one. I did tell her at that point that one of the struggles I'm having is around living in a different country, and running into cultural misunderstandings. I didn't name this one as such, just said generally that I struggle because I am sometimes misinterpreted in this country. As an American, I tend to be really direct with my style of communication; here, that can be interpreted as aggressive. And I try to attenuate my communication style but it works better sometimes than others.

And then at the end I was overwhelmed and couldn't really answer. Dizzy, spacey, dissociative. She didn't notice, even though I had told her from the start that I have DID. She kept asking me the same question and I kept saying I didn't know. She wouldn't back off. So eventually it just fell out of my mouth that "I don't f-ing know." It wasn't aggressive in my mind, just maybe born of a little frustration. But she totally misinterpreted it. Accused me of being aggressive and said I was "violating her boundaries" by swearing at her. It took me a solid, very confused minute to even realize what she was talking about. I tried to explain that I wasn't actually swearing at her. I apologized. But she just kept repeating that I was aggressive. I said I didn't mean to be aggressive -- really. I might have sworn, but it wasn't directed at her (just a voiced frustration) and I promised that it wasn't me being aggressive on purpose. Her response was that she felt offended, therefore I was aggressive, and that she heard it in my tone of voice, which meant I held aggression towards her.

And then I mentioned to her - oh hey, remember when I said I'm having trouble with cultural misunderstandings? I think that is what is going on here. But she just got madder and said no, it wasn't. I said it was. She said, "What, Americans swear more (than people in this country)?" And I was like, yup, yup they definitely do. Because they do, absolutely, hands down, no doubt at all in my mind. If I had said what I said to a previous American therapist, they probably would have just laughed with me and then moved on. But to my statement she flat out told me that it wasn't true and I was just trying to rationalize my aggression towards her. She had an American friend, she said, and they didn't swear and therefore my swearing was aggressive. I was stunned. Having one American friend does not mean she understands my culture. And she wasn't even going to try to understand my position or where I came from. Or even consider that it was just a misunderstanding. She was so committed to her position.

That was the point I just stared at her and said, Okay, I think I'm going to go now, because this isn't going to work. And I put on my coat and shoes while she sat there stunned. I told her I was sorry it hadn't worked out, and I was sorry that she had misunderstood me. And then I just left while she stared at me.

This is an uncomfortable wall of text and she's probably reading this right now. I kinda feel mortified putting it out here but I also just really need to not hold this in alone.

 

[Charbella]

And she wasn't even going to try to understand my position or where I came from.

It’s sounds like you weren’t trying understand her either. I mean if I swore in someone’s presence whether directed at them or not and they showed offense I would apologize. Sounds like she isn’t used to profanity so whether it was an oops or not did you tell her you didn’t mean to offend?

In a related note…she sounds like a terrible fit for you so I don’t know that I would attempt to understand her.

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

That's the frustrating thing, I did apologize. Multiple times. But it didn't change anything. It's like she couldn't even hear it.

And also ... I just feel like a therapist of all people should be primed to understand when someone miscalculates and accidentally offends. It just made the end all about her and not about me.

 

[Charbella]

That's the frustrating thing, I did apologize. Multiple times. But it didn't change anything. It's like she couldn't even hear it.

And also ... I just feel like a therapist of all people should be primed to understand when someone miscalculates and accidentally offends. It just made the end all about her and not about me.

If you apologized that just makes it worse. And even more not worth your time.

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

You know, the worst part, maybe, on reflection? She asked me why I chose to meet with her instead of a different therapist. I sort of stumbled through an answer (um, because there are so few options??) but she wouldn't give it up and asked me the question three times. It felt like she was trying to fish for compliments.

The longer I reflect the more frustrated I become.

 

[Movingforward10]

She sounds horrendous! I'm sorry you had that experience. But, how great you left! I love you did that. She clearly, totally and utterly is not a trauma therapist.

So whilst this feels horrible, you did the right thing.

I don't see this as a 'you' thing but a 'her ' thing, even with you swearing.
She kept asking you questions that she would know are potential landmines. She didn accept your no. She repeated the questions. Awful.

Walking away, totally the right thing.

Can you hold onto the knowledge you did the right thing for you? To help let go all the horrible feelings?

 

[Midnightmoon]

Well that was a shitty experience (yep, I swear, alot, I swear in therapy, I swore at work, we even had a policy for it 'theraputic use of swearing'... Because sometimes stuff is only summed up by expletives)

She asked me why I chose to meet with her instead of a different therapist.

I read this and initially wondered if she was trying to pick out how aware you are of your difficulties, but she sounds hopelessly unaware herself. Old T asked me similar and I was the same, erm, I could afford you and you were in my area, job done?! Anyway, turns out she was trying to work out how conscious I was that I had complex trauma (I wasn't). You are conscious and aware of your DID though, she sounds a disaster

Keep looking, you don't need someone like that, she sounds deeply unhelpful

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

Can you hold onto the knowledge you did the right thing for you? To help let go all the horrible feelings?

I’m trying to. But it was just so uncomfortable and I’m frustrated too because I’m back to square one in this search.

(yep, I swear, alot, I swear in therapy, I swore at work, we even had a policy for it 'theraputic use of swearing'... Because sometimes stuff is only summed up by expletives)

Thank you. I know people swear less in the country I’m in but it isn’t totally weird or strange and I would think that therapy, of all places, would call for some expressive language at times. And I don’t think I could guarantee it wouldn’t happen again at some point, because like you, these words are just part of my vocabulary.

Keep looking, you don't need someone like that, she sounds deeply unhelpful

I will. And apparently I’m adding “intercultural competence” to my list of requirements.

I also know DID isn’t widely known, but it’s wild to me how little this person knew. I had to explain to her that just because I have DID doesn’t mean I believe that there are separate people living inside of me. Yes, I have parts. But I’m not delusional and I don’t think we are literally all separate people. At one point I had to say to her “so, DID isn’t like the media representations ….”

 

[sidptitala]

It reads to me like your cultural adjustment is a big factor in all of this. Adjusting to another culture is hard but especially the first time you've ever done not (not sure if this is the case for you).

What are the general attitudes towards therapy and health professionals, and authority figures more generally, where you are? Your idea of normal and hers could not be further apart and it might help to figure out what hers are? I'm saying this because you mention having these types of misunderstandings with other people too (obviously you and her won't work out regardless of this but it could possibly help you navigate finding another)

One thing that enters my mind is in some places (especially where therapy is uncommon) a deferential attitude towards therapists, doctors and authority figures is the norm. A lot of people are deeply afraid of them and make a huge show of gratitude for things that are kind of the bare minimum. Are you living in a context like this? That will influence what looks like aggression to the therapist if you do

She seemed baffled and asked me why I wanted therapy if I was stable. UMMMM maybe so I can stay this way? I think this was cultural misunderstanding #1. I think this is a common approach to therapy in the US, but maybe not in the country I'm in?

Yes, in my experience Americans are much more familiar with therapy and also preventative healthcare (not a concept that exists where I am)

one of the struggles I'm having is around living in a different country, and running into cultural misunderstandings

As an American, I tend to be really direct with my style of communication; here, that can be interpreted as aggressive

I can see how that might be an issue for you. I've moved around a lot but mostly in indirect cultures where normal American behaviour can be perceived as rude (am familiar with Americans as well). I can give you some ideas to think about if you want, because it sucks to be misread all the time.

It wasn't aggressive in my mind, just maybe born of a little frustration. But she totally misinterpreted it. Accused me of being aggressive and said I was "violating her boundaries" by swearing at her

she heard it in my tone of voice, which meant I held aggression towards her.

In the context of an indirect culture, expressing frustration with another person, to their face, with an angry tone, and also swearing while doing it - is perceived as aggression.

she just got madder and said no, it wasn't. I

There's a saying that you learn what your culture is when you examine what makes you mad. I think her reaction here is an example of this and she won't be able to give you an outsiders perspective on her own culture, which I think you need.

Having one American friend does not mean she understands my culture

Yes, exactly. I think you'd be better trying to find someone who has insight into both direct and indirect cultures.

Also another thing to say about this is that I've seen Americans struggle to navigate a dynamic in indirect cultures where people rarely say what they really want or need or can offer upfront. This can mean things like a client contacting a therapist 'to help with general life problems' because they advertised they can help with 'general life problems' - when the client really needs help with for schizophrenia and addiction, and the therapist has training in this. Both people will hang back and see what each others vibe is at the start. That can be very hard to pick up on as a more direct outsider, but once you learn these codes there can be a lot more under the surface than it seemed at first. (E.g. in indirect postwar environments therapists don't advertise much as specialists in complex trauma, but a lot of them casually are these)

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

It reads to me like your cultural adjustment is a big factor in all of this.

I think it is. I think it is probably a bigger factor in my struggles right now than I realize. Part of what I am struggling with is acculturation, but also the fact that there are things about this country that I don't like, and I don't want to just lose myself in the process of trying to change and adapt. So there is some serious basic identity stuff happening, on top of the fact that I have dissociative identity disorder, so even in a perfect circumstance I still don't know who I am half the time.

What are the general attitudes towards therapy and health professionals, and authority figures more generally, where you are?

Authority figures tend to be deferred to here. I do know that. That is something that I am working on, as in my culture things are just more collaborative and the hierarchical structure is far flatter than it is here. But again, I have reservations sometimes about this kind of deference, particularly when it comes to my health. There are times, okay, I'll let whomever be in charge. Fine, no big consequences if they mess up. But when it comes to health and to my parts (and protecting them so I can continue to function), I just am not willing to risk it.

It also doesn't seem to be universal, just maybe weighted more towards deferral to authority? I've met plenty of people who are very collaborative and respectful and function very much like Americans even though they are from this country. So I think I don't always understand when this deferral is supposed to come in and when it doesn't, because there doesn't seem to be a pattern I can discern.

I've moved around a lot but mostly in indirect cultures where normal American behaviour can be perceived as rude (am familiar with Americans as well)

And the wild thing? This culture is a direct culture, very much so. Most of the time there is absolutely no problem with how I function and present, with how I talk, with how I act. But when I run into issues they always end up being huge, like the one above. And I just really have no idea when to be direct and when not to because I don't really, at the end of the day, understand what motivates people here.

Honestly, the other problem with all of this is that I am pretty good at modulating my behavior as needed when I am me -- Rainbow -- but as a person with DID sometimes I am just NOT Rainbow. And I think that not all parts are able to do this modulating, particularly younger parts. I don't always have good control, and I think when I swore that was a younger teen interjecting because I, Rainbow, was too tired to hold the front. So a big part of this is also just figuring out how to be better integrated and have better internal communication, which was the whole f-ing point (haha) of trying to see a therapist in the first place.