Relationship Wives/gf's And Combat Ptsd: Another Book Recommendation

[Army_Brat_88]

I'm going post something which could have the potential to make me unpopular :sneaky: However, I find with each new person who comes on here with a military member they care about, it causes me to want to get *that* much more involved :) So here goes:

New book recommendation: Shade it Black
Author: Jess Goodell
Brief summary: Marine Mortuary personnel dealing with death and dismemberment of military men
Why read it: To get to more of the nitty gritty on this combat ptsd stuff

If you're looking for deep, complex thinking, this book isn't going to give you it. I'll admit, I'm midway through, but it's enough for me to give it a :tup: It can be graphic, perhaps too graphic for some - but that's where it's a necessary for us on this site. There's talk of exploding body parts, burned and charred flesh, and how this groups job is to go out and retrieve the bodies for preperation back to the US, or when they are brought to them at the base. It blatently talks about the gooie things - syrupy parts they collect and slosh around in the body bags, but damnit, they made sure to collect *EVERY SINGLE PIECE* so that mom and dad back home will have every ounce possible to bury. Thank God for those people. The book discusses the stench that is on the personnel - that immediately gave their job away to others. It talks about how they had to interview those soldiers who were around and saw what happened (mostly IED explosions). Maybe you can already see where I'm going to go with this...

No, I'm not reading it out of morbid fascination. Perhaps I'm just desensitised to things more as I get older, since the world is becoming a meaner place with each passing year, or perhaps I just have a stronger stomach than other females, but I think there's something that needs to be addressed for us females who are looking for ways to help the men who've come back home from war - something that perhaps some don't want to think about. I've watched too many programs, read too many things where the women say "I don't want to hear some of what he did/saw/went through".

Sooooooooooooooooooo....... what they're saying is "I'll support you, but only on my terms".

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, let me know how that works out for you in the long run.

Now, anyone familiar with my story will say "You haven't heard bupkus from your guy (ex guy, whatever), so you don't know what you're talking about". If/when that time comes (cuz I believe someday I'll hear from him again), I've determined nothing is off limits. And sorry, but that includes death. He's a combat medic, and it means what I'm reading is most likely what he saw, so I'm getting prepared, and it goes beyond "He's going to be cranky and withdrawn and isolate sometimes".

Death and war just go together damnit. Don't have your head in the sand as you come on here saying "I want to know how to help him", but ignore the ugly parts that helped cause the combat PTSD. Now, I'm in NO way saying I've seen it. I have not, but deep down we have to know and realize it's a contributing factor to their mental state. It's helped to cause what they are acting out.

If we want to help our (fill in the blank), we need to get out of our comfort zone and read books like this. Why? Because whether it be Marine, Army, Navy, Air Force, National Guard, these men and women have dealt with death. Sure, they want to spare us, but we can't be blind and just PRETEND they didn't see people they care about get blown up or shot and killed, or chunks of their buddies fly up into the air. By not discussing it does *NOT* mean it didn't happen, and we need to realize that. We can't pick and choose what we will listen to. They need to deal with what they've seen everyday for the rest of their lives. The least we can do is make sure that we offer an ear, even if it's the bad stuff, even if it's ONLY the bad stuff. We can't force it, and shouldn't, but it doesn't mean don't be prepared for it if it happens...and don't make it apparent you will listen to X and Y, but definately NOT Z under any circumstances.

We come on here saying "there are triggers - sights, smells, etc". We want to learn what we can that causes their nightmares, or fear, or anxiety. Anyone who's lost a family member knows how painful it can be. Now, imagine loosing that family member in a gruesome manner. It kicks it up notches upon notches. Now imagine loosing that family member in a gruesome manner and you were there to *witness* it. It's off the charts at that stage I'd imagine. These military people are "family", and it hits home when they lose one. (I lost a family member to a murder, and believe me, it haunts me, and I *wasn't* there to see it).

I just want us to be honest about what we're in for when we say we need to learn about combat ptsd. It's not that they were only away from home for a year, or had to wear the same pair of underpants for a week straight, or were hot and homesick. Combat PTSD includes death, and we weren't there when the event happened that caused it, but we can try to educate ourselves as much as possible, and that includes the stuff which could cause us pain since we care. Just imagine what it's like for them...

-AB

 

[LoyalOne]

My perspective is skewed toward the vets being male, because that is my experience - women vets, I in no way mean to marginalize you. I know you were there as well.

You know, I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, vets have said to me that they suffered through what they did in order to make sure that their wives and children would NEVER EVER have to have burned into their minds the things they saw other people's wives and children suffer through in war zones, and they are going to be damned before they pollute an American citizen's mind with it.

On the other hand, admitting to my Sgt that I have seen suicides jump, have helped the police identify an OD, have walked through a fresh multiple murder scene on my way home from work... well, it was like unlocking a closet and having everything fall out on me. I was no longer in the 'virgin mind' category. I heard about failed suicide bombers, successful suicide bombers, I heard about explosions, about scrubbing his friends out of his body armor, about recovery missions where they found the missing sailors they were looking for... and their heads... I heard about things they were ordered to do or not do or let happen that tore at their souls.

I feel pretty nauseated talking about it, frankly. It's nauseating stuff. It is not for the faint of heart. But I'll tell you what it does; it gives you a window on the 'inexplicable' reactions. Why a girl in a yellow scarf makes him want to leave the restaurant, why he can't be in a crowded bar, why he jumps when you drop a glass, why he yells at you for going out alone. And the very sickening nature of what you hear drives it home to you in a way that guessing can't.

There is a price. Now a girl in a yellow scarf makes *you* cry. Now when you drop a glass, you look at him to make sure he is okay; it takes a lot of the 'casual' out of your life. I had nightmares for months while he was deployed, watched endless awful videos steeling myself for what might happen to him and what *had* happened to some of his unit. It is awful, but it does remove some of the apparent civilian frivolity that can drive them crazy.

But, *I* have found, at least - it makes the occasional 'wins' easier to get. Like when we were out on Saint Patrick's Day, and the somethng about the crush of people reminded me of something he had told me, and I found him pressed, white-faced, up against the bar. I told him I needed air, and asked the guys if they would mind if I stole him to walk me out for a minute. He leaned against the brick wall outside, gulping air, and told me he was starting to flash back to an incident, and would have pushed the crowd down and bolted in five more minutes. Disaster averted!

Be well aware, obviously, that just because you feel you can take it, they still might not want to say it. Of course, they can't be pressed to open up about any of this. But if they do, and if you can take it on the chin, I at least have found that it opens up my understanding of what works and doesn't work with him, why he acts how he does, when I can push him and when I can't, what really triggers him, etc.

 

[Army_Brat_88]

I feel pretty nauseated talking about it, frankly. It's nauseating stuff. It is not for the faint of heart. But I'll tell you what it does; it gives you a window on the 'inexplicable' reactions.

Absolutely. And I just got further into this book, where the author writes that she starts to see things and process things in such a way - something as simple as a Marine who shoved his napkin in his pocket after lunch. That could trigger ANYTHING if she sees it done out in the civilian world I'd imagine. So I've just learned something new and more indepth about associations in things. We may consider them mundane, everyday "no biggies", but to them, it could have been the last thing they saw their buddy doing before they went out on patrol, and now the buddy is on his way home underneath their countries flag.

 

[LoyalOne]

It's uncomfortable stuff, to be sure. But we want the guys (gals) to open up about their agony so we can understand. If we can't talk about it, how we can possibly expect them to?

And sometimes it is the little details that haunt you after a death. My brother (former Army) is a police officer, and he was assigned once to just stand around and watch a dead drug dealer until the coroner cleared the scene. He said it was pretty vile in there. But what appalled him was that the guy's watch was still ticking on the dresser. He kept thinking; 'He wound that yesterday. He wound that yesterday. He wound that yesterday.' It would not get out of his head for a week. He didn't wear a watch for a little while. His wife wanted to know why, but he didn't want to describe what he had been doing all day. Weird stuff like that.

 

[Ladyhope Somerset]

Be well aware, obviously, that just because you feel you can take it, they still might not want to say it. Of course, they can't be pressed to open up about any of this.

I think I get where you and AB are coming from but from another angle, don't forget we are not their therapists and neither should we try to be. I inadvertantly slipped into that way of thinking in the past, thinking I was being helpful but I wasn't.

When he's been working on his traumas with his Psychologist and it's been a painful session he's absolutely wrecked when he comes out. All he wants is peace and quiet to process the session for an hour or so then ease back into routine.

As far as his horrific memories/nightmares are concerned it's painful enough that he has to experience in the first place, he doesn't want to go through it unnecessarily, he has to put up with enough of it without relaying it to me. He has told me what happened and if we are watching a film or documentary and there's a scene that's similar he will make reference to it but it's not something I would question him about. It's too personal.

One trigger which affects him when we are out is the smell of hamburger stalls and worst of all, hog roasts. It reminds him of human flesh burning.

LH

 

[LoyalOne]

Fair point. And to be completely fair, I am not his wife, so that changes the dynamic as well.

 

[Army_Brat_88]

He has told me what happened and if we are watching a film or documentary and there's a scene that's similar he will make reference to it but it's not something I would question him about. It's too personal

LH - but at least it sounds as though he *could* tell you and you *would* be receptive to hearing it which is great! I just wanted to create a thread because perhaps others might not be like you, and I can't imagine how one could heal (even just a fraction more), when they feel they can't talk to anyone about it no holds barred - my God - similar to how I was prior to coming on here with great people to listen to me :)

 

[Navy Spouse]

It's all so sad what they've been through and have to live with the rest of their lives. I wish so bad there was a way to wipe memories out of the brain. Our children are to young to know the details of what dad went through while he was a way for that year, but he has said, "I hope that they realize that what I did, I did for them."

I have never been a war movie kind of person. I have listened intently to him when he shares though. I know he needs me to listen. I havn't heard anything graphic yet. I know that he did have to kill in order to survive. Years ago, I'm not sure how I would have felt about that. It doesn't bother me now because the cold hard truth is I wouldn't have my husband had he not. I know he lost 4 buddies. He met them while over seas, so he didn't know them long, but they form close freindships so quickly while in combat. One friend he was with when he died and I think thats probably one of the things that haunt him the most and he has said he feels guilt. I know he is also deeply disturbed with the way women and children are treated and he said he witnessed a woman being stoned to death. The images are horrible when you picture them in your own mind without actually witnessing it. I feel so bad for all these men and woman and no amount of pay, recognition or respect would ever be enough. On top of that so few people really no what they have been through. During deployments I had been asked if he would be coming home for Christmas. I felt like saying "Yes, they take a 2 week break for Christmas and they'll pick up where they left off after the new year." or I was asked if he called everyday. Sure people, its like being away at camp!

Army- you had mentioned having a murder in your family and how it sticks with you even though you weren't there. I know what you mean. My family went through that and it has stuck with me. I also went through it with my husbands family. (My husbands dad and uncle in his dads home) Luckily no one else was home at the time. I do wonder if that is playing a part in his PTSD though. It was 20 years ago but I know it still crosses my mind often so I know it does his. I'm thinking seeing what he did in combat, it probably brought images to life of what his 2 family members went through. (His dad was a vietnam vet) I know that he has shared this with his counselor.

Our children will both be in school full days this year so I'm hoping we'll have some free time together. I'm hoping he'll feel he can share more with me, I think it would help him. I do have a slight feeling of dread though. With him living some where else we don't get much time to talk because we're always with the kids.

 

[Army_Brat_88]

Well, it's like with any relationship - when the lines of open and honest communication are there - it's great. When there isn't, it doesn't survive. I've been on both sides of that fence, and the o/h one is definately the way to go.

The book I recommended is very graphic. GRAPHIC. And I'm at the end now where she's talking about PTSD, and it's unbelieveable what she and her group are/went through. I can only term it as "haunted while dead inside". She's had that tone the entire book actually. She goes into great detail with almost no feeling - which I do not fault her for, I've just read thousands of books, so tone I pick up on pretty quickly, and hers is just a semi-emotionless one. Considering all the blood and death, I'd be too.

Who knows what all the triggers are, and that's the damnedest part in it all because it seems so individualized. If only it was as easy as "don't have anything red in your house", or don't use the word "carrot". Then we could have a nice little list and make their world all vanilla. But it's not like that unfortunately.

From other books it seems that these soldiers have issues if they happen to be religious too. "Thou shalt not kill...except..." I guess that would mess me up too because then you don't know what to believe anymore.

I think open ears = open heart. I've never been married, but I'd think that if you're meant to be with that person till the end of your days, you'll be willing to share their misery as much as the good times, because without the misery, you'll never appriciate those good times.:)

 

[Zipperhead]

One of the first things my wife said to me when I got back was "I don't want to know." It was a kick, while I was down. 40 something stitchs and a wife who "didn't care." I know that wasn't what she meant. I know that she was scared the whole time I was away, and when I got hit she panicked and went through hell till I got back. But feeling supported wasn't an option for me. And when she informed me that I wasn't signing that next contract, it killed me abit more. Even though I knew I was done anyways, the body couldn't do it anymore, it was still a kick while I was down. And when she informed me that we were moving as far away from my friends as we could get, well,,,,,

So here I am. I've been out for 6 months and diagnosed with PTSD for less than 1. My wife says I've been sliding for 3 years now, ever since I got back. Of course I had blamed all my issues on having a marriage where my wife didn't support me. And really, it's hard to argue that I was getting allot of support. The sad part is that I probably wouldn't have told her very much anyways, but just knowing she wasn't there if I needed her killed me. My wife has made a point of saying how hard it was for her raising our 3 year old while I was overseas. She has made a point of saying how hard it has been dealing with a husband that doesn't want to go out in crowds, or around loud noises, or even into non shady areas. And it kills me abit more each time. Who am I suppose to tell my problems to?

I have started therapy now. I have started writing on Forums. I have started going to a support group. And yet, I still can't talk to my wife. She doesn't want to know. If this is the reality you want for your marriage, then go ahead. Support him / her on your own terms. As you can see, it has worked out awesome for me! Go ahead, give it a try. Divorces are getting cheaper all the time.

 

[Army_Brat_88]

Zipperhead! I've been waiting for you to respond to one of the threads I'm on! Hot damn. It's like X-mas in September. I've read tons of your posts on the combat site. You give some good comments and insight. Keep it up.

Well, I have to say that for me, I don't go around pretending and being blind on things in life. That solves nothing. I have no one in my family or friends that I can talk to about waiting for someone who got back from Afghanistan in February to finally talk to me - or talk to me again some day in general. It effing sucks, because while I can come on here to "talk", it's not the same as a face to face thing. That lack of support can't be made up for in another fashion. No one in my life would understand, and they'd only say "Just walk away". I can't I guess. I'm too stubborn for it, but it'd be easier if I finally got some sort of acknowledgement from him. I've kept going on my own not even knowing if the months I've spent waiting will pay off or not.

As for me, I just want to be as proactive as I can. We women can be pains in the behind in general, I'm just trying to decrease it by 1% if I can. I'm not going to sit around building a vanilla world. While he's busy not talking to me, I want to read other first hand accounts on the perils of war that others share, so that by that time I will have desensitized myself to it a bit. Sure, you never want to hear the person you loved was in harms way, but I've been angry by hearing some women saying they don't want to hear it - as if it never happened if it doesn't go in their ears. How the hell are you supposed to appreciate anything or anyone and the good times if you don't have the bad and hear the :poop:? We can't make you guys talk, but I can learn things through others who do (and have).

Maybe it'll just take more time for you Zipperhead. We always want stuff on our timetable, and life just isn't like that. Sure, it may never change, or it might change in 10 years. Maybe you'll tell certain things to your child when they're grown up enough to handle it and she'll feel left out so she'll want to know. Maybe you need to force her to hear something so she gets it out of her system? Who the hell knows. In all the books I've read in learning about PTSD, they always convieniently leave out the magic formula on how to make it "all better".

 

[Zipperhead]

Time tables are funny things. I really can't deny that I've been showing some serious symptoms since 2008. I even acknowledged some of them at the time, but said "it will pass." Now that I've admitted that I was a "Small Part" of my problem (why is everyone laughing?), I want it fixed NOW. Budget constraints and scheduling issues are not my fault. I know I'm hard to deal with, but my wife would appreciate if you could find the old me and send him home. How's that sound.