Discussing The Colorodo Shooting & Gun Laws

[Loner]

Wow... isn't this an interesting debate. I honestly thought I would have been slaughtered by the US members but am pleasantly surprised with responses and the manner in which everyone has conducted themselves in this discussion. It hasn't turned personal or defensive so well done to all who are participating. :tup:

Yea, everyone has been pretty respectful, the only person who has dismissed others ideas as nonsense is anthony. I disagree with you both but I will respect your ideas and not call them nonsense.

 

[Jawn]

But Nicollette, I haven't voiced my opinion yet! ;) Actually, most of the "moderate" stances mentioned are in line with my thinking. We have had a system for background checks & cooling off periods in my state, but that only works for new "legal" purchases. It doesn't account for grandpa's semi-auto deer rifle (5 shots) from 1940 that is still used every hunting season. And frankly, I doubt most American gun owners would register the family heirloom guns that are passed down through the generations.

I agree that a 100 round magazine is ridiculous. But even if he went in with a semi-auto deer rifle and put 5 shots into the crowd, then emptied the handgun, and then the shotgun.....he would have still injured or killed several people. The real problem is the person using the gun, not the gun itself. However, the ability to obtain all of the guns/ammo so easily does indicate a problem with the current system. And the fact the "system" varies from state to state makes it difficult to change.

I own guns that I hunt with and target shoot. I won't go into details about them, but I learned to shoot a .22 rifle when I was around 9 years old and started hunting at 12 which was the legal age for my state. The state also required me to take a gun & hunter safety class. I grew up in a very rural area and when I was in high school nearly every car in the parking lot had a deer rifle in it during hunting season. No one even dreamed of bringing a gun inside the school. If there was a fight it was just with fists and normally lasted 2 or 3 punches. I'm sure many of you are reading that and reacting in horror like most people do when I tell them about the guns in the cars. One thing to remember though, it was a rural farming/ranching area and ALL of the ranch kids grew up with guns as a "tool" to use around the ranch on coyotes or cougars that were bothering livestock.

It's just sad that there are people who use guns to commit atrocities like this one. It really points out that we need a much much better system for recognizing people with mental illness and getting them help.

 

[anthony]

Yea, everyone has been pretty respectful, the only person who has dismissed others ideas as nonsense is anthony. I disagree with you both but I will respect your ideas and not call them nonsense.

I tend to dismiss far winged nonsense that only evaluates a portion of the complete picture, without thought to the overall facts and finding an adequate solution, without all or nothing thinking. Things typically have a place in life. Some want some things to rule overall, others want them gone completely. Guns have a limited use... simple as that; of which said use does not include having one for the sake of having one, or worse, having five just because you can.

 

[Nicolette]

but I learned to shoot a .22 rifle when I was around 9 years old and started hunting at 12 which was the legal age for my state.

This fascinates me Jawn when I understand the legal age to drive is older than this and even older to drink alcohol - 21?

 

[intothelight]

What Jawn described is not really that unusual. Two weeks ago, my H and I were in Kentucky visiting family. We had Sunday supper at his cousins house and then everyone went out to skeet shoot. One of his cousin's sons is 9 and had just gotten his first rifle. This kid never missed a shot!

In rural areas, children grow up around and with guns. At about the age of 8 or 9, most have been hunting and in his family, have "bagged" their first deer. Hunting isn't just for recreation, but it also provides food and what is killed is used.

On thing I want to add, this was all done with adult supervision and when we were done, someone was assigned to take all of the guns and check to make sure they were unloaded. Shells casing were picked up to be "reloaded" and all firearms were put away. Everyone has a gun safe so ammo and weapons are stored locked up. Safety and responsibility is foremost.

I enjoyed the skeet shooting, but I am not a hunter; so I will leave that type of shooting for recreational purposes only. The only hunting I do is with a camera. And yes, I cannot kill Bambi. :oops:

 

[Girl3]

Jawn - sounds like you grew up near where I did. We had gun safety as part of gym class - it was taught by the State Police and was a great course. We got to handle (not shoot) several different types of guns, learn how to properly care for guns in every aspect, even down to cleaning them.

When I was growing up, guns were used as a tool and were not taken out unless there was a planned reason. I would never have just gone and gotten my 12-gauge out and started shooting in the backyard - my father would have beaten the life out of me. When I went to other kids' houses, we never snuck out with the guns to go shoot things.

The gun laws in place are good, it's enforcing them or people circumventing them that is often at issue. Florida enacted a law wherein if a felony is committed with a gun, you automatically do time in prison. It had a good impact. Gang-bangers still shoot each other, but they are less likely to use a gun in other types of crime.

As for the media, my husband worked in television as an audio engineer. Mike Wallace, Morely Safer, Charlie Gibson, George Stephanopoulos, etc. He spent long hours with those people travelling all over the world - and they were very left-wing in their opinions and ideas.

As a public health issue, illegal ownership and use of guns is a problem - but guns don't kill nearly as many people as accidental deaths. And if you look at the data the CDC collects from all regions of the US, the gun related deaths are concentrated among Black and Hispanic males. Perhaps concentrating on getting rid of gangs and gang-related activities would be a far healthier approach than simply banning guns.

More people would be saved by banning over-eating,cigarettes, and alcohol than by banning guns.

 

[jimmy-joe]

This fascinates me when I understand the legal age to drive is older than this and even older to drink alcohol - 21?

Firearms, when used properly, are a lot safer than vehicles, in terms of mistakes, like you teach your kid to never point the barrel of any gun, loaded or unloaded, anywhere near another person, keep it aimed downrange and toward the dirt, teach them to keep safety on unless they are shooting, you can supervise their time spent with the weapon, and if you've taught them right, even if they accidently discharge, likely it will go off harmlessly. (In shotgun league we had to walk with actions open, unloaded, could only load when in the stall and our turn to shoot)

Now alcohol :p we all know about that(Imo U.S. should reverse the driving/drinking laws, except make anything over 10% illegal till you're 21, so that way they get more practice with alcohol and knowing their limits and safety of DD etc etc before learning how to drive, since high schoolers and even middle schoolers all over have access to alcohol anyway, seems safer to have it guided a little as opposed to going out and learning through partying(I've never been to a party so I don't actually know just an off-topic guess :p)

 

[BloomInWinter]

Firearms, when used properly, are a lot safer than vehicles, in terms of mistakes, like you teach your kid to never point the barrel of any gun, loaded or unloaded, anywhere near another person, keep it aimed downrange and toward the dirt, teach them to keep safety on unless they are shooting, you can supervise their time spent with the weapon, and if you've taught them right, even if they accidently discharge, likely it will go off harmlessly.

I must respectfully diagree. The data says no.

"Firearm-related fatalities exceeded motor vehicle fatalities in 10 states in 2009, the most recent year for which state level data is available for both products. That year, gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in: Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Washington (see chart below for additional information).

While motor vehicle-related deaths are on the decline as the result of a successful decades- long public health-based injury prevention strategy, firearm deaths continue unabated—the direct result of the failure of policymakers to acknowledge and act on this ubiquitous and too often ignored public health problem."

Source: Dead Link Removed

 

[BloomInWinter]

The gun laws in place are good, it's enforcing them or people circumventing them that is often at issue.

I don't believe this meets the definition of 'good gun laws'...

"DID YOU KNOW? Guns can be sold in the United States without a background check to screen out criminals or the mentally ill.

It is estimated that over forty percent of gun acquisitions occur in the secondary market. That means that they happen without a Brady background check at a federally licensed dealer (Cook, p. 26).

Sales from federal firearm licensees (FFLs) require a background check. Sales between individuals, under federal law, do not require a background check. This means that felons can “lie and buy” at gun shows and other places where guns are readily available."

Source: www.medscape.com

 

[jimmy-joe]

Bloom, I'm not exactly sure how your stats relate to what I said. First, there are 50 states, and the territory has been this large since the early 1900s? Late 1800s? So guns(which were first invented what, 600 years ago(anything using any sort of gunpowder to launch a projectile, I'm sure muskets didn't show up till the ~1500s), have just now outpaced automobiles, which have been in production for maybe 100 years, in 1/5th of the country.

That's completely irrelevant to what I was saying about teaching safe firearm practices to children, which will then(if you taught them right) make it so that accidental discharges will be harmless, as opposed to cars, trucks, and vans, which you could spill your coffee and jerk the wheel, hit the car next to you causing it to crash into the next lane, and then ripple out from there, maybe one of the vehicles goes through a cafe wall... Or lol maybe the kid doesn't know about carbon monoxide so you tell it to go start the car but forget to make sure the garage is open, blamo.

THIS is what I was talking about. How people use things has nothing to do with whether the item is safe or not... You could kill somebody with a teacup if you tried hard enough...

What you are saying about the trading of weapons outside of registered places, that makes sense though. And although, short of house-to-house searches nationwide, there's no way to get rid of the weapons already out there, I do vote for making it illegal to buy/sell without the mentioned checks.

 

[catjudo]

Vignettes, anecdotes and hypothetical situations may make for interesting conversation, but they are not nearly as compelling or persuasive as actual data and statistics.

 

[Jawn]

Bloom from my experience anyone who has a table at a gun show in my state and is selling guns MUST be an FFL. Even if they are selling only 1 gun. They all seem to have the ability to make calls with their cell phones to initiate the background check on the spot. Maybe other states are different. I don't know about that. Here what you are talking about are people who sell guns at estate sales, yard sales, etc. And you are correct that those types of sales are legal and not regulated.