Good Will Hunting Style Therapy

[piratelady]

I don't know if any of you have seen that move. Matt Damon has court appointed therapy after he gets into a fight. He winds up seeing Robin Williams for therapy. Anyway, just about the end of the movie he is in therapy and the abuse that Matt Damon experienced comes up. Robin Williams keeps tell him "It's not your fault" repeatedly. Eventually Matt Damon starts crying and he appears to be cured! Well, maybe, it's pretty much at the end of the movie, so who knows.

Anyway, I've noticed something similar in my therapy recently. I go to therapy intending to talk about my life from the previous weeks. Somehow the conversation always turns back to my failed marriage and my feelings surrounding it. He always tells me that what happened was not my fault and I am strong for having left. The difference between the movie and real life is it doesn't bring forth crying and emotions and I don't miraculously feel better.

For those of you who feel guilt from your trauma - how has your therapist tried to help you to get passed it? Do they just tell you over and over that it's not your fault, until you believe it?

 

['91 Girl]

My T keeps trying to get me to see that as a kid, I responded in the way that I knew best. That my actions and responses were understandable and and expected for my age. It's the adults that had the problem and they are the ones to blame.

The real question, though, is do I believe her? Well, I want to. But it's hard for me to accept that point is view since it has always been my fault and an issue of me not trying hard enough. So no, not yet. But I think part of therapy is coming to break those thoughts. I don't think just saying over and over that its not your fault will cure you. I think it takes listening and going through every way it is or could be your fault and then realizing that the math doesn't add up. At least, in theory.

 

[amcen]

For those of you who feel guilt from your trauma - how has your therapist tried to help you to get passed it?

The feeling of guilt had been so rooted in me that it actually became part of my identity. That means that even if I KNEW that I was not guilty I still FELT guilt.

My therapist did not try to convince me that I was not guilty, she made me face my feeling of being guilty right in the eyes and made me realize that if I did let go my feeling of guilt I would not be "myself" anymore. Because at that point, "myself" could only be guilty, and I wanted to punish me. So, the FIRST question was, as strange as it can seem, did I REALLY want to let the guilt go. Only when it had been sorted out I could work on the feeling itself... And I did :joyful:

I don't know if that helps you and if I have been clear enough.

Anyway, I wish you the very best, piratelady.

 

[Resilientbibliophile]

Greetings,

There are psychologists and those closely-identified with such currents within the body of understanding and knowledge that constitutes the field as to the value or even primacy of catharsis or a cathartic moment. In short and as you might guess, the belief is that for some transformative moment of awareness (and presumed clarity) that consciousness about much shifts in a permanent fashion for the good. I do know that it looks terrific on the silver screen - cue the music!

Personally I'm not so sure - particularly with themes well studied by the person seeking care. I'd hardly say I'm helpless with regards to some themes I live with, but many threads in many a subtle way will continue to define me as a person. I suppose there are some who might be new to therapy and less self-aware, less in touch with the core themes underlying their particular life narrative who might - might be guided to some transformative moment that constitutes clarity and understanding hitherto not in their possession. For many I sincerely hope this is possible and such is so.

The continuing accumulation of experiences both in-session and via reading suggests to the reader that catharsis and the beliefs some harbor for guiding others towards a presumed 'it' borders on cult-think. In a sense, it is a dream of professional effectiveness that I'm not sure can be matched by reality within many dynamics even as I recognize it is indiscreet to suggest such. Has the reader ever been tempted to fake awareness and fake the presumed power of catharsis especially when they're 'not feeling it'? Wow! - I've really been lent value in-session - or not...

I have no strict desire to be cynical, but one can demonstrate the most steadfast attention to themes bearing upon one's life, study the motives of all relevant players, and in sum almost develop an immunity to an approach that builds expectation consistent will moving past 'stuck points' in a heady rush. One can be guided there, one can slowly take ownership of the themed elements consistent with moving near and eventually past dysfunctional and hurtful dynamics, but a cathartic breakthrough with sudden illumination never to look back? Gee - no. For all we've suffered, important too it is to realize that we'll feel best on our best days, and worst on our worst days - much like others whom might never consult a professional. Meta-themes are what is 'in play', and there we might each be afforded insights and perspective consistent with the conventions of healing.

For my T. I've grow somewhat listless in relation to her efforts at what can only be described as adjustment therapy with much cognitive-behavioral stress testing. I'm bored, for in a wide-sweeping and categorical sense it is clear to this writer that for making a presumably 'good adjustment' to the world, that most people are demonstrably 'well adjusted' and have 'evidently' managed the delicate balance of caring too much and/or too little to proceed through life with a level of effectiveness I've not managed - yet. I don't believe my T. has the capacity to understand that I don't strictly desire to call the template of adjustment many on the street possess 'good to go' or strictly suitable for use in my particular case. I'm attempting to fashion one that an intellectual/social critic/writer/academic would feel comfortable within consistent with being self-actualized. In point of fact, I'll settle for the establishment of nothing less. Bad Mike, bad Mike...

Again and again my T. is driven to underline what she judges as inconsistencies in relation to my thinking imagining all the while that what is 'evidently true' will translate into a cathartic moment consistent with turning a proverbial corner. That an individual moves within a larger social world and circumstance, and that such circumstances reflect much that can be critically deconstructed is of no particular interest to her; i.e. conform, adjust, conform, adjust ad. naseum. Sorry - old theme, whereas I'm clearly drifting. I suppose one doesn't read various soc. sci. topics in depth and forge a personally relevant narrative in relation to such to simply give way to a T. who can't be bothered to evidence greater creativity than to insist "...conform, adjust, conform, adjust". In particular, someone with limited sociological and economic knowledge isn't going to be able to secure my attention for long even as I know that issuing such terms decimates the field regarding whom I can seek - and more importantly - gain counsel from.

On a side note, I further believe that those T's that struggle with understanding the dynamic of PTSD, the challenges faced by those who so-suffer with traumatic recall evidence a bit of denial regarding the complexity of the dynamic for clutching at the promise of a cathartic moment of some power. My T. seems too caught up in the 'promise' that higher brain function and cognitive restructuring of the core emotion can override or prevent the 'amgydala hijacking' that is the experience of a lower-brain fight-or-flight response gone haywire. I do believe that with practice that new neural pathways consistent with a better-ordered and informed response can be set down an established, although in sum I believe her insistent on the value and utility of the cathartic breakthrough and 'establishment' of interpretive clarity betrays the limits of her understanding of the actual experience of PTSD. Call it an update on 'SNAP OUT OF IT!'. Got that? Thanks...

M.

 

[therapybankrupt]

Is the guilt real or caused by denial of the truth?

 

[Resilientbibliophile]

What is truth? If one is untouched by that one is disinclined to draw into the realm of consciousness, is such wisdom?

(Forgive me if I'm fixated on myself and have lost touch with the shape and intent of the thread)

M.

 

[amcen]

Is the guilt real or caused by denial of the truth?

What I will say may not be true for everyone, as it is only from my own experience. But oh well, I will share it so you understand what I mean about the feeling of guilt. If it is of any positive use...

About the guilt, I guess that there are as many cases as there are persons. I would probably say that the guilt may or may not be real, but the FEELING of guilt IS very, VERY real for the person who lives it.

The feeling of guilt can also be a denial of the truth, for example in case of child abuse by a relative. Because, for the child, it is just biologically NOT possible that a relative does not love nor protect him/her. So, if the child is hurt by that relative, from the child's point of view it can ONLY be her own fault, there is no other way for the child to understand it. For the child to admit that a relative WANTS to hurt her would actually make her deny her own existence. At least, by taking the guilt for herself, she still exists and can keep the illusion of love.

More generally, in case of one's trauma (verbal, physical, sexual abuse, accident...), that horrible feeling of guilt is due to the fact that the person feels that he/she could have avoided it (to hurt or to be hurt) and he/she has not: "I could have said no and I haven't", "if only I had driven slower", "I shouldn't have smiled, I encouraged him, it's my fault", " I should have left him earlier, my children wouldn't have been hurt", "I should have seen what was going to happen, there were signs", etc.

Added to that, one will relive the past events again and again, trying to change them in her mind in vain, making the past as present as if it was happening now... but what has been done has been done and that's it. That is simple and pure self-inflicted torture... And one can also be aware of that process, then will feel deep guilt about it too!

But, by doing so, it is as if one is just stuck in these past events, without moving on for years and years. That is a demoniac circle that has to be broken before she can improve at last. And, for that circle to be broken, she has to admit that the guilt IS real for herself, as it is anyway how she FEELS it... Only then one can work it out and move on.

To me, the feeling of guilt is one of the toughest feelings that we have to deal with. I feel extremely lucky to have sorted out most of it lately. I still cry of relief almost everyday. Guilt had been my companion for so long and I was not even aware of it.

But of course, I am only speaking from my experience, it is only my opinion.

Please be aware that I shortered my explanations, to not write a novel!

I hope I haven't been confusing, I rarely write so long.

 

[piratelady]

That means that even if I KNEW that I was not guilty I still FELT guilt.

I wonder if that is part of my issue. Intellectually, I know the abuse was not my fault, I am not the guilty party. I mean, it has been explained and re-explained every which way from Sunday and yet I still have the feeling of guilt. Thank you for explaining the path you took to sort it out. Maybe that means there is hope for me yet! :)

and Amcen: Wow! So much of what you wrote in the post above this resonates with me. The quotes about what people tell themselves like, "I should have left sooner when I saw the signs" ..it's like you took it right out of my head! Again, I am glad you have been able to sort though the guilt you are feeling. It gives me some hope.

In short and as you might guess, the belief is that for some transformative moment of awareness (and presumed clarity) that consciousness about much shifts in a permanent fashion for the good.

I am starting to question if there is some merit to this though. Lately, I have found sudden clarity and finally a feeling that I don't deserve to be treated the way I have been and am worthy of someone who will treat me well. Whether or not it will last remains to be seen. It's just that - I don't know what caused that realization for me. I am thankful for it though.

Has the reader ever been tempted to fake awareness and fake the presumed power of catharsis especially when they're 'not feeling it'?

I think that temptation can be great. Especially if one is frustrated that they are not feeling as they think they should after a certain amount of time. The desire to have that "Ah-Ha" Moment could probably lead some to fake it without actually feeling that way. I also wonder if a therapist would be able to pick up on that? For example, I can go to therapy and tell them that everything is ok, with a smile on my face. Although, they know I am not.

...and sorry if I'm way off track with what you were trying to say, I think I misunderstand people often.

caused by denial of the truth?

I don't think I understand your question?

 

[therapybankrupt]

I will try to explain piratelady. A recent revelation caused me to ask you these questions. Only because it has taken me twenty-four year of marriage and almost ten years out for me to stop feeling guilty. Your questions made me wonder if I was alone or did other people make this life altering mistake also. I had always believed everything that happened was my fault and I felt guilty. I believed all the time I could have done something different to make it work. Somehow I just fell short. I was disappointed in myself because I did not want a failed marriage. I failed period.

I was constantly consumed with these thoughts. Come to find out I actuality was barking up the wrong tree and everyone but I was seeing the truth. I continued to defend him until just two weeks ago. I recently realized (come out of denial) that the man I was married had a narcissist personality disorder undiagnosed. I did not know that type of personality existed. He was textbook. After researching and coming to understand about this disorder and how it paralleled my life with the X.

A lightbulb went off. My brain stopped going round and round with the guilt. I got pissed that I allowed him to manipulate my thoughts. (Stockholm Syndrome) The truth of Narcissism has set me free! I do not know piratelady if this has anything to do with your situation or not. I cannot know if you are truthfully judging yourself or the situation (denial) and feeling guilty. Sometimes not seeing all the truth or seeking the correct answers is because we are stuck in the guilt. Does this make any sense?

TB

 

[therapybankrupt]

that horrible feeling of guilt is due to the fact that the person feels that he/she could have avoided it (to hurt or to be hurt) and he/she has not: "I could have said no and I haven't", "if only I had driven slower", "I shouldn't have smiled, I encouraged him, it's my fault", " I should have left him earlier, my children wouldn't have been hurt", "I should have seen what was going to happen, there were signs", etc.

Hi amcen. My t always reminds me that should, could and would are generally after thoughts and very dangerous words. Rooted from a past time and maturity. When used are not fair in assessment at any time and we must be careful. I have been requested not to use these words in therapy and am asked to strike them from my language as best as I can working with the traumas. It helps for not taking on unnecessary blame and guilt.

If I use these words they twist the reality of the past situation and then I get stuck going round and round in my own head. I better accept the situation for what it is now and put it to rest. I continue to struggle and work on this but I am getting better.

tb

 

[amcen]

My t always reminds me that should, could and would are generally after thoughts and very dangerous words. Rooted from a past time and maturity.

Wow, therapybankrupt, I absolutely agree with you and your T, that is very simply and clearly said! Thank you :)

 

[The Albatross]

Add to should, could, and would two more. Never and always. Doubtless there are more... can't is a good one too.