How To Deal With Remorse?

[Philippa]

To me it seems normal to feel guilt about cutting contact, especially when they're old and you fear they'll die without having you in their lives.

Thanks Core. This really helped. I have not let myself think that it's probably normal to feel bad about it, I just feel bad about it.

I've cut contact with half my family, and though it's the healthiest option, I do fear that my grandparents will be sick or pass away, and I won't say goodbye, visit them or attend their funerals.

This is exactly what I worry about as well. It confuses me because I have felt such extremes of emotions for my parents, both love and hatred, but mostly hatred in the last few years that I wonder why I now feel so bad about it? I guess deep down I really love them, and feel so terrible that it has come to this. I had to do it though.

Have you been shamed a lot for not being considerate enough? (No need to answer that, just that I'd imagine it contributing to what you're feeling/thinking now.)

I know I don't need to answer, but I want to. Yes, I have been treated like i'm atrocious for not putting their needs and wants before my own for a change. I'm one of the most considerate people I know though. I have actively developed this side of myself as a reaction to having people like this around me, who care nothing about anyone elses feelings...least of all mine.

We're often taught that blood relatives are so important, and abuse victims are often taught that they're responsible for others' feelings - it's no wonder then, that keeping out of touch is difficult.

This is a timely reminder. Thankyou.

I always had the message put into me that my father and mother and brothers were more important than I am. Moreso my father and brothers. My father is from Malta, and some maltese males are extremely arrogant I've noticed, in general, and have this attitude towards women where they are more important. My father is a very insecure man though, so maybe it's just him?

I realize it's very hard for you to stay with this view, but I do think you have sound reason for not talking to them - you are protecting and taking care of yourself the best you can, you're taking responsibility for your own well being. I'm sorry this isn't more helpful, but I do feel for you.

It does seem to be something I cannot manage to hold in my mind for very long without flipping back to conditioned reactions.I have to constantly remind myself that I am being responsable for my well-being here, and that this is an important thing to do, that I am just as important as everybody else. It's exhausting having these mental gyrations all the time. I could be using this energy for much better things than this I'm sure.

You've been immensely helpful Core, thankyou so much for the reassurance. I really seem to need a lot of it these days. I like to assure myself as well, but hearing it from others who understand helps so much. I really appreciate it.

 

[The Albatross]

My rule of thumb is to always go back to the dictionary and see if my "word" is correct. It is interesting to me that on the topic of remorse, self blame, guilt, and shame are among the associations that have come up about this one word.

Phillipa I think the remorse is most likely the correct word for what you have been feeling. You've known me long enough to know that I'm a firm believer of picking the word/thought/feeling that best serves us moving forward. Blame/shame/guilt are self inflicting pitfalls to avoid as you ponder your own situation. You're growing by leaps and bounds. Only you can know what will best serve you moving forward, and if more favorable winds start to blow, you can revisit the decision and choose to change course. That is how we gain a sailor's experience. ;)

 

['91 Girl]

Hmm...that's me thinking remorse meant something different. I thought it was more along the lines of grief. Oops.

 

[Philippa]

With my own parents and mother in law and my brother... I categorized their treatment of me as "displaced aggression". I wrote it off as the two families cycle of dysfunction and then cultivated what I needed in my character to withstand and set boundaries, define in my mind my role in my rejoining the relationships. My brother is the last one now that I have elected to rejoin.

I was not able to develop sufficient boundary setting skills or the confidence to be able to voice them to my parents or brothers, while I was in contact with them. I have never felt like I can stand up to them and my voice be heard or taken seriously. I got laughed at so many times trying that I just felt like I had the air kicked out of me whenever I would go to. It took immense effort to confront them about stuff.

I walked out on my brother the last time he started bullying me in a restaurant at night over past stuff, shaming me for the way I flipped out after I stopped taking my medication and lashed out at mum for drinking the wine my boyfriend gave me. It was a petty reason I know, but my brain was literally wigging out at the time, which none of them understood, or wanted to try to. It's no excuse for my behavior, but they won't let me forget it, and take any opportunity to shame me.

I know if I ever did turn back now I'd be punished, and they'd make sure I didn't forget it any time soon. I'm already dealing with the effects of their shaming, as punishment sent down from my mother through her minions (my brothers).

 

[Core]

I have to constantly remind myself that I am being responsable for my well-being here, and that this is an important thing to do, that I am just as important as everybody else.

It's so good that you're working on it, though. I'm struggling with a lot of the same myself - the guilt and shame that you're a bad person if not taking responsibility for others' feelings sits deep, and something I think takes a lot of work to fix. In the end you have to assure and teach yourself, but getting some outside perspective and input can be very helpful, especially when the issues are caused by abusive input from others. You are as important as anyone, and you are doing the right thing taking care and being considerate to yourself. I'm glad I could help. :hug:

 

[Philippa]

My rule of thumb is to always go back to the dictionary and see if my "word" is correct. It is interesting to me that on the topic of remorse, self blame, guilt, and shame are among the associations that have come up about this one word.

I think they are all closely related definitely. Especially shame and remorse. I've been feeling lots of shame lately too.

Phillipa I think the remorse is most likely the correct word for what you have been feeling. You've known me long enough to know that I'm a firm believer of picking the word/thought/feeling that best serves us moving forward.

Yes indeed Alba. You are someone who does choose her words and identifies her thoughts and feelings with as much clarity as possible.

Blame/shame/guilt are self inflicting pitfalls to avoid as you ponder your own situation. You're growing by leaps and bounds. Only you can know what will best serve you moving forward, and if more favorable winds start to blow, you can revisit the decision and choose to change course. That is how we gain a sailor's experience. ;)

It does sound a lot like me abusing myself in covert ways. I'm doing so well in other areas, but I've found that if I eat well, do nice things for myself, start attracting decent men etc. that good old self-destructive aspect jumps up and down and decides to knock me off my perch in it's own way, and it can be very creative.

 

[Philippa]

It's so good that you're working on it, though. I'm struggling with a lot of the same myself - the guilt and shame that you're a bad person if not taking responsibility for others' feelings sits deep, and something I think takes a lot of work to fix.

I've noticed that I seem to be falling back into wanting to 'fix' everything, and maybe this pertains to wanting to make it all better for them, at my own expense? I need to be careful of that though. I am only responsable for myself and my own feelings and happiness. I am not responsable for their happiness, feelings or anything else. This is a natural consequence of their behavior towards me.

In the end you have to assure and teach yourself, but getting some outside perspective and input can be very helpful, especially when the issues are caused by abusive input from others. You are as important as anyone, and you are doing the right thing taking care and being considerate to yourself. I'm glad I could help. :hug:

I am learning to allow myself to reach out for help with this more and more...and it's a tremendous relief to do so and receive that help from people who really do understand. I get so terrified sometimes, that I will be rejected for asking for help, or that I am just wanting attention and that's a bad thing. I'm letting myself consider that even if I do want attention, that's not such a bad thing now and then. Overcoming the part of my ego that thinks it is weak for needing support has been an immense challenge, which I am happy to say I feel I am conquering more and more as the years pass.

Thanks again.:hug:

 

[Eleanor]

First, just to say that this is such an amazing thread, and to point out (once again) what a remarkable thing this forum is because of all the thoughtful and compassionate people here.

Second, Philippa, I get the misplaced remorse. I can't tell you the HOURS (in the middle of the night, it seems like mostly) I have spent going over and over and over and over what I should have, would have, could have done and made things gone differently. Arrgh. Even though I was not, in fact, doing anything WRONG in the situation. But it turned out wrong, so, of course, it must have been MY fault. (Because I AM all powerful - :eek:) And I think in your case it is misplaced:

So it confuses me as to why I am feeling this, and I have asked myself if it is even my own remorse, or if it belongs to THEM?

This sounds right to me. Here is the thing - you are SO expert at "perspective switching" that you can do it faster than the eye can follow - making mistakes like this inevitable. You think about being out of touch with them and BANG you are thinking about it from their point of view where remorse is appropriate (and would be healthy.) BUT they are not healthy and so do not feel remorse... so it can't be theirs... so it must be yours! And, VOILA we have a "cognitive illusion." You think (because all of this happens at the speed of light, or synaptic activity as the case may be) that YOU feel remorse. But that is only because you are an expert "simulator" of other's experiences and missed the transition from them to you. Or am I totally off base?

I always had the message put into me that my father and mother and brothers were more important than I am.

Hence the hypothesis about the above habit of mind.

I have to constantly remind myself that I am being responsable for my well-being here, and that this is an important thing to do, that I am just as important as everybody else.

This is a super way to reality test the thought/feeling or remorse. If my story of the "transfer" is on target, you can tease apart the process of creating the "cognitive illusion" and ... you can get out of the loop and break the habit.

Longish story: For most of my life I have been very "thick skinned." I was the poster child for "sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me." I was just impervious to taking offense. I thought. Wrongly, as it turned out. A friend (with PTSD) who reads micro-expressions and can be kind of a jerk noticed, on several occasions, that he had said something mean and hurt my feelings and apologized. Mind you, I hadn't noticed he'd hurt my feelings. Not me. No sirree, I stuffed those feelings so fast NO normal person could have seen it. But HE was not "normal" he was the adult version of an emotionally abused child who sees Everything. And so I noticed (the n-teenth time this happened) that he HAD hurt my feelings. Which I've got to say, totally sucked as realizations go. But then I had to decide - do I feel this? or not (just keep stuffing)? I sort of thought that I should feel it BUT feeling it came, it seemed, with a significant downside. The downside was that I would become one of those whiney, yucky "you hurt my feelings" kind of wimpy women. And I almost decided to keep stuffing when I REALIZED that I didn't have to handle the feelings that way. In fact, the work I'd been doing for the prior year had given me six or seven OTHER ways to deal with those feelings - right at the time or later - none of which required me to behave like one of those icky annoying whiney women. So, I went for feeling it. A mixed bag, admittedly, but better in the big picture.

The long story is told in hopes of making this question clear: is there something about making your "perspective switching" habit more conscious and less automatic that raises some worries for you?

BTW: there is NOTHING wrong with wanting attention. Not A Thing. (sorry, pet peeve. got it off my chest. Done.)

 

[Philippa]

First, just to say that this is such an amazing thread, and to point out (once again) what a remarkable thing this forum is because of all the thoughtful and compassionate people here.

It sure is a remarkable place all right. As for misplaced remorse, I have asked myself during moments of introspection whether this is my remorse, and heard back "Not all of it, some of it belongs to them too". From there I am in more of a position to then ask that the energies that don't belong to me return to where they came from and I be left contained with only my own feelings and energy. It feels lighter when I do this.

Second, Philippa, I get the misplaced remorse. I can't tell you the HOURS (in the middle of the night, it seems like mostly) I have spent going over and over and over and over what I should have, would have, could have done and made things gone differently. Arrgh.

I seem to not even notice these thought processes when they happen. My thinking is extremely quick, and as you pointed out, it can happen without me even knowing about it. All I notice is that I am feeling anguish and angst and somehow thinking my father had died and I've missed the funeral, and how diabolical am I for that, and on and on....drives me mental.

Even though I was not, in fact, doing anything WRONG in the situation. But it turned out wrong, so, of course, it must have been MY fault. (Because I AM all powerful - :eek:) And I think in your case it is misplaced:

Yes, I eventually come back round to thinking "Hang on a minute, I'm feeling better than I have in years, and I protected myself from people who don't have my best interests at heart, as I would if they were just ordinary people and not family...so what exactly am I torturing myself for here? Are THEY torturing themselves for their part to play? Highly unlikely. Then I just feel silly for wasting energy and time on it for the thousandth time.

This sounds right to me. Here is the thing - you are SO expert at "perspective switching" that you can do it faster than the eye can follow - making mistakes like this inevitable. You think about being out of touch with them and BANG you are thinking about it from their point of view where remorse is appropriate (and would be healthy.) BUT they are not healthy and so do not feel remorse... so it can't be theirs... so it must be yours! And, VOILA we have a "cognitive illusion." You think (because all of this happens at the speed of light, or synaptic activity as the case may be) that YOU feel remorse. But that is only because you are an expert "simulator" of other's experiences and missed the transition from them to you. Or am I totally off base?

No, that sounds eerily accurate actually. I haven't been able to put it into words, but that's exactly right. My thinking is so fast that I lose track of where it all stemmed from, and try to backtrack to see but it all gets a bit lost. The speed of light is bang on.

I sometimes don't even realize I've even been thinking, it happens so fast. And I can go off on odd tangents...like I will start thinking about some fresh oranges I saw at the markets and from there it will feed into a memory of my grandfather eating an orange, and then something that happened one day just after he ate that orange, where he said something mean that upset me, an then somehow I end up thinking about my father, who may have stepped in to say something, and then suddenly the whole thought process has changed track and I'm suddenly remembering how he tricked me and lied about something, and how it made me feel, and that he then told me I needed help, when it was him that needs help for having no healthy boundaries, but the ability to twist it all around and make me think it is me.

It all happens to so fast in my head that I barely have a chance to even acknowledge what I am thinking.

This is a super way to reality test the thought/feeling or remorse. If my story of the "transfer" is on target, you can tease apart the process of creating the "cognitive illusion" and ... you can get out of the loop and break the habit.

That is very reassuring, and I do feel that it makes a difference when I do challenge the thinking, it just takes so much time and energy for me to come around to it that I end up feeling stupid for indulging in it and a bit crazy for doing it for the tenth time that month. I don't get why my mind cannot just state the reality to myself once and be done with it? Why does it keep going over and over it even after I have argued my way out of the position of asshole the tenth time running?

It's like I want to make myself guilty, but the reality is I'm just not. I did hurt them by cutting contact, but they don't experience hurt the way I do: FACT. My father may feel hurt for a brief time, and then he is over it ten minutes later...whereas I feel hurt and it can take up to a couple of weeks for me to get past it. I am sensitive, he is not. Reality.

Longish story: For most of my life I have been very "thick skinned." I was the poster child for "sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me." I was just impervious to taking offense. I thought. Wrongly, as it turned out. A friend (with PTSD) who reads micro-expressions and can be kind of a jerk noticed, on several occasions, that he had said something mean and hurt my feelings and apologized. Mind you, I hadn't noticed he'd hurt my feelings. Not me. No sirree, I stuffed those feelings so fast NO normal person could have seen it.

This sounds so much like me. I routinely stuff my feelings back down I have noticed. I made a lot of progress in my early twenties, unbottling emotions, and feeling them as they arose, but so much happened that I just reverted back to old habits. Feeling the hurt my mother caused me from all the many times she would treat me as though I didn't exist with the silent treatment, sometimes for up to two-three weeks of pretending I just wasn't there in the house as a child, and looking straight past me and not saying a word to me until I would be forced to beg on my knees for her to acknowledge me again, took me years to tap into. I didn't even know how badly it had affected me until I was in my late teens when I was honest with myself.

I've had so many instances of that happen since then that I barely even register when it does happen, even though intellectually I know it has and will sometimes even say something to the person, though I usually end up being laughed at for it.

But HE was not "normal" he was the adult version of an emotionally abused child who sees Everything. And so I noticed (the n-teenth time this happened) that he HAD hurt my feelings. Which I've got to say, totally sucked as realizations go. But then I had to decide - do I feel this? or not (just keep stuffing)? I sort of thought that I should feel it BUT feeling it came, it seemed, with a significant downside. The downside was that I would become one of those whiney, yucky "you hurt my feelings" kind of wimpy women.

Yes, I understand this totally, and have been feeling this way recently in fact after a woman on another forum was being really horrible and gave not two shits about my feelings, and openly was proud of that, saying it is up to me to deal with my feelings, and it's not up to her to care about them...treating me like I'm a "wittle baby who needs to have her hand held". and I dared not express my honest feelings by asking her to take more care with my feelings.

I would have thought a woman would be a bit more caring about peoples feelings, but she is clearly proud of her sociopathy.

And I almost decided to keep stuffing when I REALIZED that I didn't have to handle the feelings that way. In fact, the work I'd been doing for the prior year had given me six or seven OTHER ways to deal with those feelings - right at the time or later - none of which required me to behave like one of those icky annoying whiney women. So, I went for feeling it. A mixed bag, admittedly, but better in the big picture.

Would you mind sharing your methods with me here. I had some strategies as a teenager, and when I was painting a lot it was easier, but after having been on the receiving end of some pretty insensitive criticisms designed to make me feel inadequate as an artist, I have not been as keen as I used to be to throw myself into it, even with the studio that is set up to go now. I know if I could get back into really feeling painting again, it would help me re-claim and honor my delight in feeling.

The long story is told in hopes of making this question clear: is there something about making your "perspective switching" habit more conscious and less automatic that raises some worries for you?

I hadn't really considered that before, so I'm not sure? I will have to ponder on that one for a while and get back to you Eleanor. Thanks, and thankyou for sharing some of your own story here and your valued insight. I always look forward to reading what you have to say here.

BTW: there is NOTHING wrong with wanting attention. Not A Thing. (sorry, pet peeve. got it off my chest. Done

Thanks for the reminder. I did buy into that mentality as a teenager unfortunately, and it still is uncomfortable sometimes for me to admit that I need attention.

 

[LhasaLover]

This is such a great thread to read. I was raised to be family oriented and to have roots in the community.

One piece of enlightenment I picked up was that all I do is say "I have to take care" of this, a person or that... My thought patterns are so deeply wired in me it is going to take a long time to change.

I thought to myself, how do I move forward when I don't put myself first? You cannot pick your family... and even then, people change. Some of my family members have let me with no recourse but to separate from them. Even with the decision having been made for me and all my therapists and support on board, I still am hardwired to "fix" it.

There is not fixing this mess and I am not one to tell anyone else how to live. My family put me through utter hell and there is no way I would have gotten this far with them.

It's work for me to process our separation. I feel really guilty, confused, sad, betrayed... and these things get triggered by my family members. I feel like they are still chasing me down trying to destroy me from afar with the doubts and criticisms they have ingrained in my mind.

If I close my eyes and listen to my negative self-talk.... I can identify the sentences as ones spoken by my mother and brother over and over and over to me. Unhooking myself from their manipulative and shaming ways is something I have to struggle with daily. I was in tears at my last therapy appointment over speaking to my brother for a short time. This contact triggered an anxiety attack, I lost my medicine and had to go to the hospital.

I can completely relate Phillippa and appreciate everyone's insights and thoughts on the matter. I'm going to re-read this thread.

 

[Philippa]

Thankyou for sharing some of your story here LhasaLover.

I was the same. Raised to care, while my brothers went on to do exactly what they wanted and excel at it, I had terrible trouble putting myself first, and even acknowledging that that is the right mindset to have. The other day I heard "I'm number one" inside me and it both scared me and felt good.

It scared me because I have noticed that I can be self-centred at times, and it doesn't feel like a healthy self-centred...it feels like a self-centred that comes with living alone and having no one except my cat to care for, so I do lots of things for myself, buy nice things, eat good food etc. I'm a bit worried of turning the opposite way and just not caring about anyone else at all.

 

[LhasaLover]

Hi Phillippa,

The best times of my life have been living away from my family or origin. That in itself is a really difficult thing to admit and makes me feel "selfish". If I look at things factually, I was doing best away from them.

As the eldest daughter, I was raised to take care of my mother and brother and they were angered, felt abandoned and lashed out at me if I did not do what they wanted. Any attempt at a healthy life was met with threats and criticism.

What is so challenging is even apart, you carry their perceptions and version of life that you grew up with believing. Creating your own reality is very scary and it leaves me with the fear I always had of being alone. In fact, this time that I have been recovering has been a lonely road.

What strikes me about your post is that you do indeed care about others and it is healthy to take care of yourself first. My mother and brother are always thinking of themselves first! They completely betrayed me for their own benefit and play the victims. They have truly drained me... and I have no reserve or resilience to cope with them. My new friends I have plenty to give... Perhaps you should just enjoy your feeling of freedom for a while.

You can look at the past and worry about the future, but honestly, if we do not live our lives each day being true to ourselves it's really a loss. Self-centered people are generally self-absorbed. Maybe you need to focus and give attention to yourself because you have not. Perhaps what you are feeling is part of the healing process - a liberation from that which has ruled and controlled you and kept you from finding happiness.

I looked up synonyms for "self-centered"... they include the following:
egocentric, egoistic, egomaniacal, egotistic, egotistical, grandstanding, having a swelled head, independent, inward-looking, know-it-all, narcissistic, on an ego trip, self-absorbed, self-indulgent, self-interested, self-involved, self-seeking, self-serving, self-sufficient, selfish, stuck on oneself, wrapped up with oneself.

When we take our inventory, which is what you sound like you are doing often we tend to focus on the negative. Really when we look at ourselves, we should start with positive attributes... like independent, inward thinking... but you hardly sound narcissistic or an egotistical person. We are supposed to look at ourselves with kindness and love and seek balance. We have been taught to look at ourselves with a very critical eye and negative self-talk.

It is a long road from finding out exactly who you are after living your life to others, to having time with yourself and growing a new trustworthy circle of people you enjoy around you. Fear and control are issues with PTSD, but honestly we are survivors. There is nothing that is going to come at us that we are not ready to handle... it's just the feeling of self-discovery an be confusing, uncomfortable and not at all straight-forward.

It sounds like you are learning to take care of yourself and are on doing a lot of self-exploration. Our life goes through phases, sometimes we are more outgoing and social. I enjoy your posts a great deal from what I have read and relate very much to how you are feeling. Your sharing and interaction with others tells me you are very generous. It takes time to build up relationships with others that we trust and re-establish ourselves. A lot of what we do in life is supposed to be proactive and striving to be self-supporting and happy. Relationships are actually not supposed to rule our lives. The kinder we are to ourselves, the kinder we are to others.

We grew up in really dysfunctional living circumstances. It takes time to reconcile new found self-esteem and self-love.