Flicking The Switch Back On??

[Springer80]

they say that european men know how to treat women and pay lots of attention to them, ask them out, approach them without hesitation and actually notice them.

but I also know that it is me as well,

I think that some of it has to do with self confidence. It's what you think about yourself and your confidence about yourself that attracts a man.

Hello Phillipa, I'm European and a lady (well female!)....I don't know much about your Aussie culture and what it does to your fellas over there. Apparently Brits do 'it' more than the French and Italians (not put together, that would be silly ;)) but I'm not sure I believe that. I did hear that blues/Motown fans are more 'romantic' which I would assert to be true... however I think this stuff is too a larger extent to do with how you feel about yourself. Yes it's self confidence, but its also the confidence to be vulnerable.

It was only in 2009 (aged 29) and ten years since I got away and first tried to get help, that I looked in the mirror, saw a 'girl' and felt warm towards the idea. Also I have had a few of what Clinton would call 'relations' this year (:woot:) and it is the first time my body has been relaxed enough to remain enjoyably present and to feel and begin to profess emotion without the aid of 'substances' booze or otherwise. It has been really quite a significant and emotional step.

Instead of worrying about the external matters I'd think and allow yourself to be happy about the things you would want from a guy...especially the 'mushy' stuff. You need to find your teddy bear, it's hard to admit when so much of society puts women down for admitting they need and want that and puts men down for liking to provide that and being needed.

Of course it makes its more difficult when you are trying to persuade your frightened body to take a chance again....but men have hearts too! You just have to find one who isn't so full of bravado that he wont admit it!

 

[Philippa]

Philippa,

My wife just "dressed me down like a thanksgiving turkey". She says you are correct about the men and I should shut up.

So I apologize, I just could not conceive of a "man" acting that way to a women.

Thanks.

You're right though, most 'men' wouldn't treat a woman that way, but I don't see many 'men'...mostly boys unfortunately.

Having said that though, I just got together with a lovely man up the road from me, just yesterday, and he's got PTSD too! There are some wonderful men out there, they just aren't the majority.

 

[Philippa]

Hello Phillipa, I'm European and a lady (well female!)....I don't know much about your Aussie culture and what it does to your fellas over there. Apparently Brits do 'it' more than the French and Italians (not put together, that would be silly ;)) but I'm not sure I believe that. I did hear that blues/Motown fans are more 'romantic' which I would assert to be true... however I think this stuff is too a larger extent to do with how you feel about yourself. Yes it's self confidence, but its also the confidence to be vulnerable.

Thanks Springer80!

It would be interesting to hear what women from other countries had to say about the men in their areas, and how they differ in this context.

I do think vulnerability is a large part of it. I tend to be ok with allowing vulnerability, with someone I feel comfortable with, but my ability to actively make eye contact with men at parties, or out at dances, seems to have left me? I think I just closed up so much after my last boyfriend, and some experiences I had that were bad with male sex partners, that I am having trouble consciously turning the switch back on...or it's possible I'm being hard on myself and I actually am ok?

After creating this thread, I got together with a man I have been getting to know on a friend level, at the place where my art studio resides. It was really good to have that human touch and comfort, and he was very gentle and loving with me, doing all the right things, like stroking my hair and the way he held me. Guess I can't be too bad at getting their attention...perhaps it's the context that counts?

It was only in 2009 (aged 29) and ten years since I got away and first tried to get help, that I looked in the mirror, saw a 'girl' and felt warm towards the idea. Also I have had a few of what Clinton would call 'relations' this year (:woot:) and it is the first time my body has been relaxed enough to remain enjoyably present and to feel and begin to profess emotion without the aid of 'substances' booze or otherwise. It has been really quite a significant and emotional step.

That sounds great Springer80. I can't say I'm doing so well at the moment with substance abstinence. I seem to be on a bit of a binge at the moment, and the man I hooked up with has PTSD and copes by taking substances, to top it all off. At least it's good because we both understand what we've been through. I'm aware of the potential for being led astray though...

Instead of worrying about the external matters I'd think and allow yourself to be happy about the things you would want from a guy...especially the 'mushy' stuff. You need to find your teddy bear, it's hard to admit when so much of society puts women down for admitting they need and want that and puts men down for liking to provide that and being needed.

I think so too. I seem to have found someone in the last two days that provides all the comforting cuddly stuff, which is a turnaround of events.

Of course it makes its more difficult when you are trying to persuade your frightened body to take a chance again....but men have hearts too! You just have to find one who isn't so full of bravado that he wont admit it!

Yes, this can be an obstacle. I feel like I am working through it though. And yes, I know some men have big hearts. I'm fortunate to know some very loving men.

 

[Springer80]

Hi Phillipa,

my ability to actively make eye contact with men at parties, or out at dances, seems to have left me?.....or it's possible I'm being hard on myself and I actually am ok?

I'm the same...I couldn't actively pick up a guy I like the look of. But lets face it, after what we've been through on here, it's not about looks. I think the men I like and need are mostly the kind that would need to steal themselves a bit to ask a girl out.I sort of take a deep breath close my eyes and push myself in their general direction, head spinning, babbling nonsense. It's a good look! The thing is it's too much effort and negativity to analyze and try and bash yourself into being some kind of uber slick self confident pick up guru. I makes most people nervous. I'm shy about it, scared sometimes but it's getting better. On holiday a few years ago...I was single, there was a lovely, very handsome and a little shy guy that I liked. A group of us had a lovely night saying up around the pool. I wanted to continue being in his company...he was going back to his room, we hadn't even kissed but I flipped out. I am getting better at getting to know someone slowly and realizing its ok o enjoy someone company.

I got together with a man I have been getting to know...It was really good to have that human touch and comfort and he was very gentle and loving with me,...Guess I can't be too bad at getting their attention...perhaps it's the context that counts?

I think so, I mean our conexts have changed forever haven't they but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to find what we need and it be enjoyable and more.

I can't say I'm doing so well at the moment with substance abstinence. I seem to be on a bit of a binge at the moment, and the man I hooked up with has PTSD and copes by taking substances,...I'm aware of the potential for being led astray though...

I think the situation is different. I have absolutely NO judgement about people with our condition using drugs or drug users otherwise. I think it should be legalized and frankly sometimes I miss it. However, even with my ex-fiance I was too hyper and tense. I could not relax and my body needed too otherwise it would have shaken itself apart. I also needed sex, needed intimacy. I don' know how old you are but your obviously not a kid and neither is your friend, so it's not like your being taken advantage of. I think eventually I wanted to not rely on more from a dissociative point of view. I needed to know that I could be totally physically and consciously present and relaxed on my own. Also I'd been smoking cigs since 12 and I wanted to stop nicotine...that was he more important hing really, health wise. I think once I have found the partner I need to let all he hurt out with and allow them to see and feel what I need and for me o have the courage to allow them to provide and me accept it. Then,....I might...have a little toot! ;) For old times sake!

 

[Springer80]

Oh PS...Hope he's nice and it's fun and it turns out alright!! ;)

 

[Philippa]

I am getting better at getting to know someone slowly and realizing its ok o enjoy someone company.

That was my conclusion as well. Nothing wrong with taking it slow. That took me a while to work out, but I'm glad I've started to.

I think so, I mean our conexts have changed forever haven't they but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to find what we need and it be enjoyable and more.

Absolutely.

I think the situation is different. I have absolutely NO judgement about people with our condition using drugs or drug users otherwise. I think it should be legalized and frankly sometimes I miss it.

I agree on all points, and I've missed it too. I went totally straight for many years, but have started to allow myself to smoke weed when I have my monthly period, as it helps a lot with PMT. Plus I've discovered how fantastic it is when sex is thrown into the mix. ;)

I also needed sex, needed intimacy. I don' know how old you are but your obviously not a kid and neither is your friend, so it's not like your being taken advantage of.

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that I am. I'm definitely not a kid, no, and nor am I doing anything I don't want to do, and we are both benefiting from it. It is nice to find someone who actually understands how bad it can get when you don't have any human contact at all, how unnatural that is and how it can affect us mentally and emotionally.

I think eventually I wanted to not rely on more from a dissociative point of view. I needed to know that I could be totally physically and consciously present and relaxed on my own.

I can understand that. I wanted the same thing as well. What's the point in being with someone when you aren't really there, right?

Also I'd been smoking cigs since 12 and I wanted to stop nicotine...that was he more important hing really, health wise. I think once I have found the partner I need to let all he hurt out with and allow them to see and feel what I need and for me o have the courage to allow them to provide and me accept it. Then,....I might...have a little toot! ;) For old times sake!

I support your decision, and know the wonderful new life being a non-smoker brings...though I have been lapsing of late. I know I will never become a smoker again. I allow myself little treats here and there, but never settle into anything that can become addictive, or even habitual.

I'm sure a good toot will be just the ticket, when the time is right.

 

[Springer80]

Here, here,.....yes and agree to all the above! I too in the last few months, when a little tipsy have lapsed on the cigarettes front :eek: not many but still. However it feels different, I wake up sober and I'm back to not wanting them, it genuinely doesn't feel like before when my ptsd was so acute that if I did stop then had one, I knew I was kidding myself and on a downward spiral again. However, I ain't messing with nicotine, it's a b**ch.

I found this a while back...it really shed some light on what I'd been doing and instinctively knew. It's why I never really blamed myself for any assistance I used, why I can't abide the 'anti-preachers' and the blame/guilt society has about these things....forunately I never got addicted to anything reaaly life threatening but all we do is bully people who need the help most.

SUMMARY OF ABSTRACT

- Neglect of attachment needs may leave a person with fewer receptors for endogenous opiods (natural morphine) because these receptors are formed during good attachment experiences
- Chronic childhood trauma and abuse induces repeated flooding of the system with endogenous opiods, one of the consequences of which may be dissociative phenomena (which can pass largely unnoticed in a secretive, isolated, highly adapted childhood where attachment figures have a vested interest in keeping it so)
- The dissociative phenomena are much less functional and understandable in adulthood, especially away from the context they formed in, particularly where denial is the norm (societal also)
- A survivor's capacity for pleasure and well-being may be reduced by their paucity of opioid receptors, making any emotion at all feel overwhelming and out of control
- With consciousness and day to day life preoccupied with PTSD triggers, flashbacks, sleep disturbance, anxiety and depression, somatic consequences etc etc etc a survivor's rare or only experiences of something approaching well-being may be when flooded with endogenous opioids during dissociative experiences, or other opioid-inducing behaviours such as self-harm, addictive behaviours, eating disorders, OCD and so on, and therefore 'habit-forming'
- Therapy sessions may precipitate flooding with endogenous opioids and consequent dissociative phenomena, hence by blocking the opioid receptors with Naltrexone the survivor may be assisted in amending behaviours that have become unhelpful, and would otherwise be extraordinarily difficult to change due to their addictive nature




Anyway, good luck with your mojo! And take it easy.....no big leaps required!

 

[Hashi]

I just find them all to be so incredibly self-absorbed that they don't really notice women here in Australia, they are too caught up in their own lives and stuff to really pay attention.

I'm confused by this statement. How do relationships happen in Australia if men don't really notice women or pay attention?

Can anyone offer any insight into how to turn that part of me on again, or is this something I need to figure out on my own? Any help would be appreciated...Do I need to just move to Europe?

I think men are interested in and attracted to women who seem generally positive towards them. If you're thinking the majority of Australian men are not your type, then I think the majority of Australian men are probably going to pick up that vibe from you even if they don't realise it consciously.

If someone has that kind of belief, however it originated, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. They expect the majority of Australian men to be unforthcoming and inattentive, they send out subconscious messages to that effect, the men they come across pick that up on some level, and as a result... the men are unforthcoming and inattentive. So the person with the belief is "right".

I'm British and when I lived in Japan I dated a Japanese guy who was respectful, considerate and took me seriously. I met other Japanese men like that while I was there. Not every man, but plenty. However, many of the other ex-pat women in the same city thought the majority of Japanese men treated them casually because they were foreigners and patronised them because they were female. That was actually the generalised cultural image of Japanese men towards female foreigners, but I didn't know that before I went. I think I didn't have that experience with a lot of Japanese men I met because I didn't have that expectation. I didn't know I was supposed to.

I really do think there are loads of different personalities and styles amongst any group of men anywhere. There may be cultural tendencies but even these could be as much to do with our individual expectations and experiences. I wonder at how many British and Italian men I know who seem overly attached to their mothers, but someone else might not have that perception at all,I don't know. And, many places have a lot of cultural diversity anyway (perhaps it's mostly monocultural where you live, I don't know.)

I have met some good ones too, I just wasn't attracted to them when they were to me, which was the problem.

I think there are probably quite a few around. I do think this is perhaps more about what you've been feeling and projecting in the past, and less about the sorry state of Australian manhood as a whole. (I hope that comes across as hopeful, which is how I intend it.)

 

[Springer80]

I'm confused by this statement. How do relationships happen in Australia if men don't really notice women

A big crate of XXXX ususally helps ;)

 

[p-no]

Philippa, I hope you don't mind me sharing this comment on your thread. It did help me very much which is why I'm passing it on. I find it has a lot of truth in it.

What you don't want you can't have.

I have found for myself that if I don't really want a relationship with someone, I can't have it, i.e. I won't be open to it. No matter if this is a general thing (I don't want any type of relationship with a man) or I don't want a relationship with a specific person. So, I think, it's about finding out what we (anyone) really want before thinking about whether or not we're open for it. I just know that for me it's an automatic thing: If I am really interested, generally, in having a relationship with someone, I will be open to one.

Things seem to have changed very recently though, so: good luck! Enjoy!

 

[Hashi]

A big crate of XXXX ususally helps

Pretty much the same as in Europe then? ;)

 

[Philippa]

Thanks for all your responses. I have to get ready for work right now, but I will get back to you all later tonight when I'm home.

I think it probably is just as Hashi said, and old beliefs stuffing me up that I need to examine.