If You Didn't Have A Chance To Build A Self Before Complex Trauma

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Ms Spock , all of these answers and input are very good. I think if it's important to you or somehow your mind returns to it, it is an important part that needs to resonate with you. I try to stay aware but patient with the questions that don't have answers or complete understanding.

Just a thought, perhaps what you worry you're missing you don't need now? Seems to me who you are as a person, your authentic self, would be the answers or likes and preferences in your deepest heart of hearts. Sure, we do miss much dissociating, but if yourself and body are that frightened at the time the terror is what has to be reduced. As with everyone, just 'now', this present moment in time or life is what is most relevant. Of course our 'feelings' will change at any given time, but your core and heart, mind, body and soul are 'you'. I wasn't used to asking myself what 'I' like or what have you, I think it takes practise. Also feedback from others (not negative sources). I also find it very difficult when in one emotion or mindset to be able to remember (literally) what any other emotions feel like, especially when I am in a negative one; when depressed I can't remember what happiness feels like, when afraid I cannot remember what safety feels like, etc. But I don't think the 'emotion' makes me who I am.

:hug:

 

[ms spock]

The day I was raped aged 20, we were on holiday as a family and my parents and a sister heard me screaming for help and for the rapist to stop, and they did nothing. They did nothing to help afterwards either and this has always been deeply hurtful to me, of course. And I have been bewildered about why they should have reacted in that way.

That speaks volumes in how you were NOT cared for and protected by your family.

But it was this realisation that made me feel I could stand apart from my parents and say to myself that I am a good person (not perfect, of course), and that I, unlike them, have never taken my abusive past out on anyone else. That was the first building block to a sense of self. I decided I didn't want to allow what has happened to me to corrupt me any further and I'm hoping to use that decision as a means to standing up eventually and start to tell my truth. I don't want to live anyone else's lie any more. So, if you like, I am starting to define myself in opposition to the abusive behaviour and selfish values I have experienced

That was a decision I made at 8, this is very helpful. I decided at 8 - I told my sisters and brothers that we didn't have to be like our parents. I told them we didn't have to grow up and be like our parents. That was an early decision.

Like Abstract, I have done some coaching (and in my case, healing) work, specifically around values, as Abstract mentions, though I would want to do those exercises again now that I know so much more about myself and my past. Another thing I have found useful is to think about what I have achieved in life and really try to congratulate myself for those things - it's a work-in-progress, that one, but I want to stop believing all the belittling comments and dismissive behaviour that I've faced from abusers, and try to see that it was amazing and very strong of me to have been able to do those things despite everything that has happened to me in life.

Do you have to dispute your thoughts a lot? Do you use CBT?

I think it would also be useful to ask people who do really love me what they value in me and my friendship, though I haven't plucked up the courage to do this yet.

That could be a good strategy.

I know I have always tried to help others, many times to the detriment of my own well-being, so I need to sort out some boundaries there,

Me too.

looking back over my career and the way I have run my life, I think there are things to be proud of and which can help me to define myself positively. Things I can build on. I hope to be able gradually to separate myself from the members of my birth family and other abusive people without precipitating World War III, and to find the space to build a new life for myself, based on my values and a healing, positive and nurturing way of life. It is a big struggle now to start, but I hope I can and that I can help others along the way. Then there will be a point and a purpose to my life, I hope. It all seems massively daunting at the moment and it is not easy to do anything except survive another day at times.

It can be like that surviving one day at a time, but you have some good goals.

Anyway, I'm just hoping that some of this might help you. I'd love to hear what you find helpful.

A lot of what people are writing is helpful.

 

[ms spock]

Dear @Ms Spock , all of these answers and input are very good. I think if it's important to you or somehow your mind returns to it, it is an important part that needs to resonate with you. I try to stay aware but patient with the questions that don't have answers or complete understanding.

I don't want to use it as a way to be stuck. I want to pull out the useful bits to carry with me.

Just a thought, perhaps what you worry you're missing you don't need now? Seems to me who you are as a person, your authentic self, would be the answers or likes and preferences in your deepest heart of hearts. Sure, we do miss much dissociating, but if yourself and body are that frightened at the time the terror is what has to be reduced.

I do need to reduce the terror that I feel about being in my house.

As with everyone, just 'now', this present moment in time or life is what is most relevant. Of course our 'feelings' will change at any given time, but your core and heart, mind, body and soul are 'you'. I wasn't used to asking myself what 'I' like or what have you, I think it takes practise. Also feedback from others (not negative sources).

Lots of practice does seem the way to go.

I also find it very difficult when in one emotion or mindset to be able to remember (literally) what any other emotions feel like, especially when I am in a negative one; when depressed I can't remember what happiness feels like, when afraid I cannot remember what safety feels like, etc. But I don't think the 'emotion' makes me who I am.

I can see that. That happens to me as well.

 

[ms spock]

Leah is right about that, although I feel that there is a difference between your "real self" who indeed gets shaped by painful events, and those aspects that you can feel, intuitively, don't belong to you. Then as you go through trauma, you might confuse those two things, and in the end up with a vague blur instead of a personality.

I am not sure about that. Can you explain that a bit more please?

Even today I have trouble figuring out who I am, partly also because having borderline, I tend to shift moods/opinions often and then I get confused as to which mood or opinion I can really identify with. But also, I feel like I have learned a destructive behavior from my parents, and that's not really ME, either. I also don't feel like the anxiety is a part of me, or the negativity, the list is endless.

I identify with my feelings too much.

My answer is dual: first, figure out what and who you really love. Because it speaks volumes about you. Personally early on I loved philosophy, spirituality, I was adventurous, curious, headstrong. Later on I learned I love flying. Also the people who you dearly love (I'm talking unconditional) say something about you. It's often those qualities they have that you admire, which you recognize because inside you may also have them, or the potential to achieve them....

I think perhaps because of the dissocation, depersonalisation and derealisation that I am not as connected with myself as I could be which is making this difficult.

Second, identify moments at which you feel confident, if there have been any. Note how you feel at those times. I don't think it's either one thing or the other (either having a primordial self or having a self shaped by experiences). It's probably a mix of both. I remember when I was very, very small, I used to have a happiness within me that later on helped me to get through the crap.

That is another good strategy.

 

[ms spock]

In terms of developing a self "before trauma" I think that must start us out with a clearer picture of who we are. Or maybe not so much a clearer picture as a less muddied one. I feel that, as someone who doesn't have a sense of self before trauma, I have to find my way through additional complication, doubt and confusion about my identity. If I hadn't been traumatised until I was 20 or 30, I think I would have a better sense of self and my own personality from the start of this journey.

I imagine, too, that this would be helpful having some idea your self before the traumas started.

 

[ms spock]

Trial and error Ms. Spock... by trial and error.

Sometimes I get scared to make mistakes Alba. I am aware that what my psychiatrist says is true I get stuck in trauma states. Then sometimes I have very brave and I do push myself out there and give it ago. I have to give it more of a go. Not so much that I totally space out and disappear but not so little that I am not extending myself and forging a new path.

I don't want to self sabotage by overdoing it. I don't want to underdo it by not making enough of a move and I am find it hard to work this out.

I have only a little bit of before trauma... with many gaps. I, quite frankly know very little about myself because my circumstances have dictated that I do the most basic things to provide for myself. I'm in a bit of a quandary right now about how to proceed with recovery in fact, because I want/need to continue on the quest... but am not at all sure how to proceed.

I would have thought you know yourself quite well (from my perspective) Alba as you seem to be able to push and pace yourself to improvement (and I know it costs a lot in terms of discipline and the four ps) in quite a consistent way.

It may be a lifelong pursuit... or it may be like sitting in front of a safe and dialing in combinations until the door opens. All I know is I keep trying. By experimentation, I can keep what works and eliminate/rule out what doesn't. That's all I got gal.

Well it sounds quite practical to me Alba. I am a little bit all over the place with it all at the moment. But I was very sick last week, as well as mega anxious going to a place I hadn't been before so I am pleased what I managed.

I have those irrational fears of making a mistake and the same consequiences that I got when living with my crazy arsed and violent parents of mine. I am really stuck in that fear and to do anything is a big push through. Then I think I can't do it and then I do it and then I think I can't do the next thing either.

 

[ms spock]

Sorry for getting all philosophical as I hate it when threads go that way, but that's where my mind is right now.

I think that there is room in this forum for all types of posts - philosophical and otherwise.It is one of the things that I admire about this forum is that there is the space for many types of healing and philosophies surrounding healing.

Sometimes I wonder if all my worrying about not having a "self" is a construct of the world of psychiatry as I was introduced to this concept while in the trauma unit and it's worried me ever since.

This sounds interesting. I don't quite understand what you mean. Do you mean that we have selves and it is only when we are aware of a certain type of definition of self that we become worried and concerned.

Then I think, how do normal people FEEL about the concept of "self"? Honestly, we're all so individual that I'll never know this one. I may be able to understand others THOUGHTS on the "self", but never their FEELINGS.

What I observed was that when people have a clear sense of self that they act from this and can define themselves well to - I saw that over Xmas where people are firm in belonging and who they belong to and it is something they are just automatically a part of.

In my moments of clarity I know who I am and I know what I think and feel. This is when I know my "self". And then the PTSD monster comes along with his nasty obsessive thoughts and I seem to lose sight of what really is----what I really think, how I really feel. If I keep this in mind, I can drive a wedge between the PTSD self and my real self. It helps to keep things in perspective.

How did you know this prior self to PTSD? Or is this self one you developed whilst dealing with PTSD?

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh Ms Spock I don't think you are even inclined to use it as a reason to be 'stuck'. I mean more of a roadsign or important need to understand.

Gosh I don't know, I'm probably not a good one to ask or give input. I know what is true to myself but don't feel 'human', really, or having a 'value', per se. Is that what you mean? I don't equate 'self' to concepts such as 'belonging', and such. Wouldn't that be 'identity'? :confused:

 

[ms spock]

So @rightkindofme, what I am trying to say is there is probably a whole lot more of you already there than you are aware of. You just need to find it properly so that you can hold onto it.

I think that might be a common one - people can see the self in other people but not in themselves.

 

[ms spock]

Oh Ms Spock, you aren't dumb at all. I'm sorry if what I said wasn't clear. I completely agree that being traumatised from a very young age means our sense of self is much more impaired.

I tried to PC you Hashi to let you know that it wasn't you. But anyhow.

It makes it harder not to have a sense of self from a young age or to have that sense of self disrupted continuously.

The way I see it is that my true self is something so deep and essential that it doesn't change because of trauma. It may feel mostly hidden, but it's still there. It's like, trauma hasn't changed the colour of my eyes. Maybe I don't know the colour of my eyes because I've spent my life so far avoiding mirrors, but the colour is still there and I can find it eventually.

That is a nice way of putting it Hashi.

If I'd had OCD since birth, then I would know it was a disorder because I would feel the distress it causes me and I would see that most other people don't have it. Like my experience of trauma from birth. At first trauma was all I knew and I thought it was normal. I came to see that most other people's lives aren't like that. But, like many of us here, I have no experience of a life "not like that" to draw on. My development wasn't like many other people's. I didn't learn things at two that other people learnt at two. I didn't grow my personality as a teenager in the way that other people did when they were teenagers.

Yes I relate to that.

I have to achieve those things a different way. I had to learn to regulate my emotions better from a self help book at age 30, instead of from an understanding parent at age 3. The kind of things that other people might have found out about themselves in adolescence, I'm now finding out about myself by going to therapy, journal exercises and posting here. I was 27 before I understood what I wanted to study at university, so I went back to university when I was 27. Everything is later. Everything is through a different route. And everything is still there, to find eventually.

That is a nice way to put it Hashi.

I am 44 and still feel all over the place. I am feeling very uncertain in myself.

 

[ms spock]

"some people are given the title 'artist', and some people have to earn it. For me, I think I've had to earn it, and I've earned it by doing".

It made me think of what you are asking here about having a self and a life. Some people get given a self by that support or nurture receiving in their formative years, and some people have to build their own self. I think I've had to build my own self, and my own life, and a lot of that has happened with support of a good therapist this year, and some of that reparenting that people have mentioned.

That is interesting insight.

Thanks for that.

I got stuck in the idea of thinking that if I thought it all out then my thinking would release me but actually I need to do stuff and of course reassess but not think so much and not move.

 

[ms spock]

I guess if I were to think about "who I am", I would have no idea how much of my current self is made up of adaptive personality traits or how much is just me. Or if "just me" even exists. There is a whole debate about "Nature vs. Nuture" ie. is your self or personality defined by genetics or by the environment you grow up in. I think it's a combination of both, with some randomness thrown into the mix too.

There is research coming in now that shows that environment changes genetics and genetics are changed, switched on or off by environment.

I don't know. It's all very confusing. I wonder, how would it look if you felt that you knew who you were? What tangible difference would there be in your life if you had a better sense of self? Maybe identifying that, will give you some ideas on small steps to make, that would help.

Making small steps in doing that, in thinking about how my life would look if I knew who I was. That is doable.