If You Didn't Have A Chance To Build A Self Before Complex Trauma

[ms spock]

Yeah, I didn't have parenting or nurturing. I was neglected/sexually abused from infancy.

It is interesting how some people are more frozen (dissociated) and some people are more fight (hyperaroused) as a coping method for lack of nurturing. I'm a fighter.

I got really frozen. I have been frozen for long periods of time.

 

[ms spock]

I decided attempt self parenting and personal development...It is not an easy way, but there are small incremental gains and improvements.

I think that is where I might have to go and proceed now that I think about it. It may be back to small incremental gains and improvements via self parenting and personal development.

 

[ms spock]

I completely agree that being traumatised from a very young age means our sense of self is much more impaired.

It does create some distinct challenges. And some times it is hard to articulate this.

The way I see it is that my true self is something so deep and essential that it doesn't change because of trauma. It may feel mostly hidden, but it's still there. It's like, trauma hasn't changed the colour of my eyes. Maybe I don't know the colour of my eyes because I've spent my life so far avoiding mirrors, but the colour is still there and I can find it eventually.

I can see that is a good way to think.

On the other hand I have been reading about epigenetics and how trauma responses can be passed from rat fathers to their rat sons without the son ever seeing the trauma response from the rat father, if you know what I mean. I have posted that on the forum somewhere and if I find it I will put here.

It is possible I am over thinking this too much but it feels like I need to follow it through.

If I'd had OCD since birth, then I would know it was a disorder because I would feel the distress it causes me and I would see that most other people don't have it. Like my experience of trauma from birth. At first trauma was all I knew and I thought it was normal. I came to see that most other people's lives aren't like that. But, like many of us here, I have no experience of a life "not like that" to draw on. My development wasn't like many other people's. I didn't learn things at two that other people learnt at two. I didn't grow my personality as a teenager in the way that other people did when they were teenagers.

Yes I have been acutely aware of that. I have been acutely aware of missing certain things.

I have to achieve those things a different way. I had to learn to regulate my emotions better from a self help book at age 30, instead of from an understanding parent at age 3. The kind of things that other people might have found out about themselves in adolescence, I'm now finding out about myself by going to therapy, journal exercises and posting here. I was 27 before I understood what I wanted to study at university, so I went back to university when I was 27. Everything is later. Everything is through a different route. And everything is still there, to find eventually.

Thanks for breaking that down and explaining it to me.

 

[ms spock]

I have been trying to work this out for some time now.

 

[ms spock]

I read a lot of developmental psychology. That's a big part of my "reparenting" process. I have two small children (ages 3 and 5) and I am absolutely determined that someone in my genetic line will grow up without abuse. Well, two someones. :)

That is really good.

I think I wanted to be a stay at home parent so bad to make up for not getting one when my siblings did. I'm jealous and envious. I had no one to watch me so instead I was out hunting for sex from all the neighborhood perverts from when I was three.

Wouldn't you say that you might have been oversexualised and thus was a target to child rapists rather than looking for sex at age 3?

I struggle with identifying my priorities.

It can be quite difficult.

So Ms. Spock, it is interesting to read how your journey is going. I think we hide our selves in very different ways. I largely hide behind being a bossy know-it-all. I change my apparent areas of obsession depending who I am talking to. I have dramatically improved in my ability to not alienate people by instantly asking for sex. :) I'm proud of that...

This is really good.

So who do you think you are or know you are beneath all the trauma?

 

[ms spock]

Hi Ms Spock,

You always work really hard when you identify something you want to address. That's one of the things about you I have noticed.

Thanks I do give it a whirl. Consistency is a problem at times. I hope to work on that.

Reading through something came across to me and that is it is possible that that blank emptiness that comes with lots of derealisation and depersonalisation constantly being there since year dot may be part of what makes it so hard to believe there is anything there. I know I felt that and feel that. I often can't even believe words I write or things I say. I don't feel like a person. It's pretty hard to have any contact with any concept of a self when you are so removed and spacey and then possibly feel physically numb. That on top of not having a sense of ones self is something I believe and I suspect something all of us with high levels of dissociation identify with to one extent or the other. I still think you can work on your self regardless though.

I have been ruminating on this year. I only got what rumination is in the last month. How is that for slown?

The other thing that occurred to me is that there may be a pull to dismiss a lot of what you see when others grow an identity as it seems there is constantly pull back to the idea that others must have had something to build on.

That very well could be it.

There is no judgement in me saying that Ms Spock and only observation. I think we can have blocks and discard helpful information without intending to. Sometimes it can even have a self protective role.

I can see how I have not been able to take in information and it was a way of managing the overwhelm as a child.

Most is not all - that is very important. In fact there are people in this forum who prove how possible. Even people on this thread who do have the same total lack as you. I am saying this with kindness Ms Spock. I think you are brave looking at the topic.

Thank you for your kindness and risking sharing your opinions with me.

Not everyone Ms Spock. There really are people out there with zero nurturing before and have found a self and continue to build on it. Here on the forum and elsewhere.

Yes I would like to be one of those people.

I think this is where dialectics is helpful. Two things can be true at the same time. Yes, having a self first and then having trauma is going to make it so much easier to find your way through something. For so many reasons that it would take a page to write it out. But that does not mean that someone who has little or no nurturing and early trauma cannot develop a sense of self. It may be darn hard but it is possible.

Well I hope to do it. I am really struggling Abstract.

I have no real idea what my personal story is of childhood but it certainly was not the type of life you have had Ms Spock. But I have come across others who are pretty fully formed and do have a history like yours.On this forum and off.

That is interesting.

There are some people who have pretty good parenting that never developed the capacity to see others or to have much self awareness. The way human beings respond to things is endlessly complex and powerful.

It is complex and powerful.

This is amazing. You didn't do this to people please. You didn't do this to caretake. You didn't do this because someone told you to or because someone told you it was right. You did it because something inside of you figured this out and made a decision. Trauma is not who you are Ms Spock. It is what you have experienced and nothing can change that. You also can't change that it will have affected the way you view things. But it can't take away your ability to be a person or your own unique way of responding and finding your true self inside you.

I hope so Abstract I have been trying the longest time.

I will come back for the other stuff. I just wanted to say this first as I think it's very important. Hopefully you know I am being a friend. :) Feel free to speak directly about your feelings as that is how you will be able to work through them. I won't mind either.

I am very tired now but will think on this and respond tomorrow. Thank you for the detailed reply.

 

[The Albatross]

Sorry Ms. I just can't follow the conversation - some people have difficulty with large blocks of material, and I have problems following slice and diced posts. If you need anything from me you know where to find me. Carry on and try to remember that there can be certain stronger positions to use as a core foundation for building the person/identity you want to have. Like guiding principles or something.. Mine at first was the four absolutes (from the Oxford group) and my filter questions (Is it just?, Is it kind? Is it reasonable? Is it good?)

 

[rightkindofme]

Wouldn't you say that you might have been oversexualised and thus was a target to child rapists rather than looking for sex at age 3?


So who do you think you are or know you are beneath all the trauma?

When I was 3 I was out asking the neighborhood 5 year olds if I could give them blowjobs. It isn't just that I was a target for child rapists although that happened too. When I was 5 I gave out blowjobs behind the bookcase in class in kindergarten.

I want to just say that I am Krissy Gibbs! That is who I am. I didn't get that name until after I got married. I like this name more than the name I shared with my family. (I'm not worried about anonymity. I use the same username everywhere on the net tied to my name.)

I can list off some of the things I do, but that isn't the same as knowing who I am. I can tell you my roles and relationship labels. I don't know if that is the same.

Up thread you mentioned therapists creating DID. I had a therapist who tried really hard to talk me into having DID because she was writing a book about it and she believes there is no way I don't have it given how I move between communities. I think I don't have it because I am completely out in every community about the range of wackiness in my life.

Who am I? I am Leather. I am a home schooling parent. I am an artist and a writer. I love to garden. I love to dance and I used to know a wide variety of styles down cold (waltz, (including four variations on the basic waltz) , polka, swing( east and west), English country dancing, Irish traditional dancing, a little Latin dancing but I'm not as good at that... I am a teacher.

It is kind of funny how "teacher" may be one of the largest parts of my identity. I am fairly obnoxiously didactic all the forking time.

I say that my culture of origin is poor white trash but I married a software engineer so I'm not poor anymore. I have been fairly active with the Occupy movement here in Oakland. I paid for the busses that shut down the port ofOakland during the General Strike so you might say I'm politically motivated. (I also paid to replace the windows the black bloc broke when the owners of the business couldn't.) Despite those things I'm generally excessively and obsessively frugal. I wash all of my plastic bags and reuse them until they disintegrate.

I'm a dirty hippy. I'm an auto-didact. I believe in Pay It Forward with all my soul. My religion can be summarized as: It Takes All Kinds. I'm queer. I can find something to love in anyone no matter if everyone else has decided that person is worthless.

Do I know who I am? I'm not sure.

Most days I wander around hearing whispers in my head that nothing I ever do will make up for being a worthless whore. I cry all the forking time because I hate myself so much.

 

[Bluerose]

Like I said, fantastic thread. One of the most productive I’ve read in some time. So considerate of others feelings, so heart warningly honest, and so, so helpful to me.

Thank you.

Very best wishes one and all.

And may I wish each and every one of you everything you wish yourselves for this coming years.

 

[Abstract]

I have watched many people heal and move on and not having the slightest fathom of how they did it or what to do

I think we often go around in circles and then take off at high speed for a bit and then circle again for a while and so it goes on. Some of us are in a circle stage whilst others are speeding and then it swaps around. I think we all have very unique paths to travel and places we need to go. I think you might be about to get to a speeding ahead phase.

how does this relate to resilience?

What I have read about resilience indicates that if there is just one person a child can go to who is reliable and supportive that it has a hugely protective effect when it comes to being traumatised. The absence of having a emotionally available and safe person is very detrimental.

That could be a real down side of it I guess. Though I am envious of people who have something to pull on.

Just to be clear Ms Spock. I was just pointing out that I personally don't think that trying to be exactly who we are before trauma is helpful to anyone. It wasn't in any way not acknowledging that finding a way forward when we have never had a basic knowledge of who we are is going to be more difficult. I hope I put that better and clearly. :)

On the other hand I have been reading about epigenetics a

Being changed by trauma doesn't stop us being a self though. If you look at your description of who you define sense of self it is about knowing who you are and who you feel and being able to feel that and feel solid. The effects they mention were about tendencies to anxiety etc if I remember. It's good to speak through all your thoughts.

that I could have a different opinion,

I do consider what you say.

Sorry Ms Spock. I did'n't in any way mean that in a whinny way! Just in a slightly clarifying way as I wasn't quite sure of what you meant with this first quote here and was guessing that you were saying you didn't agree with what I said before. I didn't mind that if that was the case but I wasn't clear! I wasn't implying that you didn't consider what I said and you are very free to discard and not consider anything you don't feel will be helpful for you personally. I am glad you are speaking through what you really think as the thread is for your benefit and if you don't speak how you really feel then there won't be as much progress.

It can be done but we have to have compassion for those who might not make it as far along the track

I just wanted to comment on this too. Just in case you feel judged or that there isn't compassion when people share that they have a positive view of this concept. I hope you know that I there hasn't been one tiny molecule of judgement or lack of compassion for someone elses viewpoint or where they are on this thread. Often we have one thing that is further ahead than someone else and in another area they they are ahead. It all works out in the end and different things help different people. I think often the judgements are our own. I know I judge myself terribly. Just wanted to say that there has only been compassion on here so you need not fear.

 

[ms spock]

Do I know who I am? I'm not sure.

Most days I wander around hearing whispers in my head that nothing I ever do will make up for being a worthless whore. I cry all the forking time because I hate myself so much.

I hope that you are seeing a trauma based specialist.

 

[Abstract]

Just wanted to add Ms Spock that I was in no way implying that you were circling at present just in case you thought that!:) Just speaking in general concepts. I know I am circling. I then put one toe forward and inch there before circling again. That has been the story for a while...