Where Do We Draw The Line As To What Is "past"?

[Hashi]

Sometimes I wonder if gratitude and such is lacking, that it would change my perception, and even consequentially make everything/ everyone feel safer?

I can't respond to this, except to say that gratitude isn't something that has been important to me, it has been very unhelpful. I think gratitude can be an ally of acceptance. I think ideas about gratitude can potentially (not always) be in opposition to ideas about radical acceptance. Personally, I have to radical accept the things I have no gratitude for.

Maybe it's ok to just say "I'm getting triggered by virtually Everything."

Well, that isn't my style (to say the least) so that would be a conversation with someone else here.

Maybe more productive than pretending otherwise though

Less productive than doing otherwise.

Or maybe it will pass.

No it won't.

I've been thinking about this thread, and what I'd like to suggest most is to build on something you already know. I'm not even sure if you're currently having therapy - is that the case? If so, is there anything you can think of that you or your therapist does that draws a line between therapy and life outside therapy? It might be your therapist encouraging you to "leave everything here" until next week, or a variation on the image of putting things away in a box for a little while, or encouraging you to plan some things for the week ahead.

Do you yourself have any rituals after therapy, or after journaling, or after being here on the forum that mark a separation between what you've been doing and the rest of life?

Anything like that, or anything else?

 

[Hashi]

I'm not quite sure what the 'present' is. I know it should be obvious. My present however is tenuous, it's hard to even define it too.

OK, you're floating around in that long white gown again. Time to stop. What are your grounding strategies, and are you using them?

 

[Tinyflame]

Time to stop. What are your grounding strategies, and are you using them?

@Hashi, what you've said has helped me a lot! Many important points, as you said the difference between 'pretending and doing' (I think so much comes down to doing, and well I've 'pretended' plenty and that's probably what contributed to the whole mess). So pretending is not really grounded or 'present' in some ways.

Another huge point is no, I can't afford therapy, but I've been trying to do what I can on my own, so there is no division much. Maybe none at all. When I was healthier, I had the energy/ peace of mind (less anxiety- and I think it was a positive loop, because I felt a little 'hope', even, and happiness) to develop parts of my life. Yes I did have a 'present'.

Grounding I'm hugely accomplished in, but too much so, actually. In so far as I can tune out so much (I don't just mean dissociate), that I think I feel I must come up with a mental plan or strategy to immediately change what I feel (that I'm 'feeling', in general). It's so fast a default (possibly from fear), that it seems both emotional and cognitive. In the past that worked, but like pretending I think it's gone from 'friend' (effective coping mechanism) to self-defeating. Perhaps even harmful.

I get you on the gratitude, oh my, I would need radical acceptance (and be fully non-human!) to be grateful for 'everything'. For me, I mean grateful for what I am grateful for. Stopping myself and 'thinking'. In a sense for me it is grounding, for example even to say, I am grateful for being able to stop and rest for a moment, grateful for a sip of coffee when I'm freezing cold. Grateful to see a response to this thread, to know I at least had the courage to Stop, and post. I am and have been 'flooded'.

I recall around Christmas 2006, I was trying to think of 5 or 10 things per day I was grateful for. It was a particularly bad time in my life. I tried, following a peaceful moment and for the sake of 'Christmas', I came up a couple short and simply could not think of any more. At the time that really seemed pitiful and a downer to me, as regards myself. Yesterday it occurred to me it was Absolutely Positively Great I could come up with 8. :) And it gave me a place to start. The biggest difference there (then) was that I just kept going on, trying, not trying to 'rush' a solution. (A HUGE problem for me, @BloomInWinter just posted the exact same thing).

I think the biggest ways gratitude helps me (contributes) is that it budges my thoughts, it interferes with thoughts of worry, it expands my perspective, it tries to 'teach' me what is good or that I have good in my life, it on occassion reminds me of better times or positive memories. Not always, of course, and it has to be genuine/ sincere. I guess one of the biggest ways is it actually reminds me I am an actual 'human'. I guess it's one thing that contributes to holding me in to the present, actually. That is obviously a Big Problem for me at the moment. I guess I never considered I was being 'flooded'.

Thank you so much Hashi.

 

[Britt.f7]

I think the past is always with us, in what we do or say. I think it shapes our opinions, our thoughts, our reactions. My mother use to think that once it was done(the past) it was done, and you moved on, but I don't believe that. I think it is residual. That it blankets everything you do, even if you do not actively think of it at the time. It's when it becomes overwhelmingly a part of the present that there seems to be a problem. If it just sits on the sidelines and colors my views, that is one thing. When it is alarmingly there, as in a flashback or directing my life in a negative way, as if it has always been, that there is a problem.

 

[Hashi]

I can't afford therapy, but I've been trying to do what I can on my own, so there is no division much.

Working on your own doesn't mean there is no division. When I first recovered memories and a storm of intense PTSD symptoms started literally overnight, I spent the next six months working on my own. What I worked on was grounding, safety, containment and psychic protection.

Grounding I'm hugely accomplished in, but too much so, actually. In so far as I can tune out so much (I don't just mean dissociate), that I think I feel I must come up with a mental plan or strategy to immediately change what I feel (that I'm 'feeling', in general).

I've got to be honest and say this doesn't sound like my idea of grounding. More like extreme distraction. Unless you can ground before you distract, then the boundaries between distraction and dissociation/derealisation are very thin.

Grounding isn't about tuning out, it's about tuning in to a more concrete reality. It's about bringing your focus to other feelings. It's literally about getting present in the present. I'm afraid that to me it doesn't sound like you're grounding.

Ungrounded distraction would be something like "I have images of when I was seven and X, Y and Z were happening and I can't deal with it, so I'm going to play the piano and think about sunshine and not allow this".

Grounded distraction would be more like "I'm distressed so I'm going to reinforce the fact that I'm safe now, I'm older, I'm independent, I'm away from those people, I was that seven year old but now I'm a powerful adult and they can't hurt me. Something I have now is that I've learnt to play the piano so I'm going to take some time away, play the piano, connect to how much I love the music and let myself know that I'm an adult and things are different now."

 

[The Albatross]

Past is anything that occurred in the previous 24 hours or more. Present is today only. Any "revisiting" that becomes obsessive or compulsive is a detriment. I set my mind in the morning, check in periodically with myself throughout the day, and set it all to rights (reviewing... what did I do well, what could I have done better, where did I succeed, where do I need to improve, actions? Acceptance? then on waking, I have a whole new present... past is yesterday and all afterward.

It works for me.

 

[Tinyflame]

'

Working on your own doesn't mean there is no division. When I first recovered memories and a storm of intense PTSD symptoms started literally overnight, I spent the next six months working on my own. What I worked on was grounding, safety, containment and psychic protection.

Grounding isn't about tuning out, it's about tuning in to a more concrete reality. It's about bringing your focus to other feelings. It's literally about getting present in the present. .

Grounded distraction would be more like "I'm distressed so I'm going to reinforce the fact that I'm safe now, I'm older, I'm independent, I'm away from those people, I was that seven year old but now I'm a powerful adult and they can't hurt me. Something I have now is that I've learnt to play the piano so I'm going to take some time away, play the piano, connect to how much I love the music and let myself know that I'm an adult and things are different now."

Dear @Hashi, actually oddly enough I do employ the second example constantly. Hence why it is confusing to me, how can I recognize, address, acknowledge what is occurring, and still 'feel' as I do? My best example would be waking up triggered by things which were never triggering in the past. And having so many triggers the 'present' becomes unpleasant to manage within with so much processing.

Due to my own choice I have not had divisions between working on it. I've rarely distracted myself, or worked on relaxation ("Hurry up and relax!" :rolleyes: ). I push myself out of my comfort zone constantly. It is my own fault.

What I meant before is that my my mind, similarly, has been so aware of trying to remain grounded I've actually never been able to just 'sit with' whatever I am feeling. A friend pointed out to me that I have been defaulting so quickly to 'making a decision on the spot' for so long that it has become a habitual process, and my mind doesn't readily see that 'not acting at a given moment' is a choice as well. I have as an adult and child been required to do that, act quickly or be prepared to make a decision at a moment's notice. Combined with hypervigilance (especially unwarranted hypervigilance) I think I'm sizing up the present well (am grounded) and am 'acting' (versus 'reacting') accordingly. But of course, as you and @The Albatross said, and @Britt.f7 , anything beyond today is the past (no matter what I remember). Therefore logically if anyone or anything 'today' is triggering to me, it better have a direct corelation to today or it too is unwarranted. If that makes sense. :confused: Frankly, not every given moment requires a decision, even if I'm feeling 'off'. It's almost like I'm subconciously looking for what decision I have to make. Especially if I feel 'off'. And if there is no decision needed to be made, I feel like I'm missing something, some facts. :(

It (that) also explains why I get 'lost' mentally during routine moments that don't require a snap decision. I get totally un-grounded/ floundering.

And simple things have gotten reduced in size to accomodate quick decision making. (For example, if I go to the store my 'list' is a number- say 12; as long as I remember the number I remember what 12 items I need. But I never remember if I forget the number).

Additionally, I have long since noticed (at least for over 25 years), that my brain operates on more than one track at once, and I've encouraged it to. I can read, say a prayer, and hold a conversation at the same time, and fully absorb all 3. Or I can listen to and participate in several conversations at the same time. Again, being solely 'present' to each person speaking. One could say I'm missing details others are speaking of, but actually I'm not.

That is what I mean by grounding, or in essence ample of that but not translating it in to what is the most important fact: if I don't have cause in the present to be triggered, or mistrust, or feel like sh*t, though I am feeling that way there is no action required (decision to be made on my part), as you have all said then the past is still intruding. I would guess at those times I'd do best to stop trying to ground or bring up any considerations of the past, even comparing it to the present, it actually drags me back to it more than it enables me to assess the present moment or people or environment accurately. I'm grounded in it, but I can't discriminate, my mind 'needs' to 'decide'.

In other words, it's time I (carefully!) forget the past, because I can't 'be' in the present when I'm always aligning the past ('what isn't occurring now' thought) alongside it in an attempt to ground and convince myself I'm no longer 'there'. I need to just be 'here'.

 

[Tinyflame]

I guess too that's why each person and their journey is unique, and as to what works best for each. We can pool our knowledge and experiences (I am very fortunate to have that here), and tailor it to what we know about ourselves, what works for each and what doesn't.

:hug:

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Past always affects present. Suppose you walked into your kitchen doorway and I hit you in the forehead with a 2 X 4. You will never walk through that same doorway (or maybe any other) without a part of your brain saying be careful for the crazy guy with the 2 X 4.

It's instinct and what kept you alive in the jungle where the tigers live.

Unfortunately the survival technique that kept man from becoming extinct gets a little goofy from time to time and it triggers that memory and physical reaction each time you walk through that or other doorways.

The struggle is you can intellectually know and tell yourself there isn't a crazy guy with a 2 X 4 but that little guy that lives in the instinct department never learns and always pops his little head up and yells lookout.

I have a little mallet and like the whack a mole game I keep whacking away each time he pops his head up. (I even tried with a 12 gauge.)

The problem is the hammer is not always as effective as just knowing he's going to pop his head up and telling the little SOB OK I got it now lets move forward anyway.

Hopefully eventually it will become "yea right" or "go away".

Unfortunately that little guy will surprise you and yell LOOKOUT from time to time but the challenge then is how you learn to handle it.

When I master Mr. Instinct yelling "DUCK" I'll let you know but in the meantime the struggle continues.

Respectfully, The crazy guy with the little mallet.

 

[Tinyflame]

Aw Dear @Bill Dickerson . You understand. I do 'hear you'. And you are right. Thank you so much. :hug:

Respectfully, The crazy guy with the little mallet.

And the Big Heart. :)

From the crazy girl. :) Hee. ;)

 

[Hashi]

Hi Junebug.

First of all, I'm going to say that I think in many ways we're opposites and I respect you for giving my ideas so much thought, because they're very different from many other ideas And I realise that other ideas may be more relevant to you.

Secondly, I'm going to say that I really do only want the best for you and if you feel you've found a way forward and no further input is needed on that, then I genuinely think that your take on it completely over-rides any take that I have on it.

Thirdly, I'm going to say that I pushed aside my first instinct when I posted what I did last, and I kind of knew that's never the best idea. When I say the best idea, I mean the best idea for how much I could possibly offer. My first instinct was to say to you - I asked you what grounding strategies you have, you didn't answer that, what grounding strategies do you have?

To be honest, I still have no idea what grounding strategies you have. And yet, it was a simple question. So if you feel you've answered the question, and there's nothing more to say, then we're on different pages and neither page is right or wrong. It's just the way it is and our paths perhaps aren't meant to cross any more.

I have no idea what you mean by grounding, because to me what you describe isn't possible if you are so grounded. To me, there's something wrong with this picture. But my picture might be completely different from your picture. And if that's the case, and you're moving forward with new realisations, then I;m very happy to bow out at this point. It really does sound like you've come to a realisation and if that's meaningful for you then I would be behind that.

Wishing you healing.

 

[Tinyflame]

eThank you @Hashi , for the wishes!

Actually, I'm sorry, I actually forgot to answer the question. I don't know if this is what others do, only what I've tried. If it matters, this would be it:

First I try to identify 'how bad' I am; if it seems I'm dissociating (eg can't remember how to get home, etc), I do deep breathing (always, first), I do the questions you'd ask someone to determine if they are oriented: what is my name, address, the day and date. Then I try to find or focus on something somewhat familiar. I presume I am panicking and deal with it like a panic attack.

If I feel my emotions going downhill, or I start to exhibit 'weird' things- I startle, my heart starts racing, I start getting a migraine, etc, I ask myself if there's something I haven't done: did I eat? Did I sleep? I do a 'body check', is my back killing me, etc.

If I start to have cascading thoughts, or feelings of flight, or feeling like my clothes are on fire, or feel despair or terror, I ground. I choose a color and count how many times I see it. I don't do well 'pushing my feet in to the floor', but warmth, or cold water on my face helps. I will pick something indiscriminantly- say name (x, eg animals) and start at the top of the alphabet. I will pick an object and describe it in detail, sometimes the life lines on my hand. Sometimes I try to choose the 5 senses, and describe them in relation: what do I see? What do I smell?. Often I have a cigarette (not great), sometimes I pinch myself super-hard (dig my nails in), not great but I've self-harmed so the elastic doesn't work for me. Focusing on music helps a little. Movement helps a lot. I keep a list of sayings in my phone I read. I have a rock I hold on to. I use 'thought questions", such as what date is 54 days from now?

Sometimes I force myself to do the opposite; if I can't speak, I start a conversation. If I want to hide, I make myself visible. If I feel despair I make a joke.

Babies and especially dogs are super-grounding for me. So are colors for some unknown reason. I capitalize on surprises too. If something shakes me up I try to embrace it. If it is a happy surprise or humour I try to let my body and heart feel happy. If it's unpleasant (eg falling, frostbite), I try to let myself feel the pain instead of blocking it out. I try to 'check in' with myself. Name what I'm feeling, wait, name it again (no judgment). I try to recognize and 'feel' things like hunger. If I can (have the environment) I'm trying to remember to do the butterfly hug (not just for self-soothing and breathing but coordination and awareness).

Emotionally I try to think of Pete Walker's 13 things to do in a flashback. I need to make a list, which reminds me. I always remember from them to say, it's not the past, it is now. I am safe. I let myself feel fear and grief. I look at my watch. I look at what is different, what people did not exist in my life then. It works for me.

May be there are more but that's off the top of my head, or at least my daily stand-by's. It depends, like today I focused on the look of the aura around a light, counted the number of bricks in a wall, focused on sunshine through a window..

Hashi, we can have similarities, or differences, or both. I appreciate your input. Seems to me whether one goes through the field and the other goes through the forest, if they are still aiming for the same city it's good. :tup:

I did have great realizations from Bill's post. He said a lot with "2x4" and 12 guage. I can't explain why I get it, I just do. He gets the 'voice' (that isn't a voice), the amygdala out of control maybe.Who knows. My heart, maybe. Maybe pain and 'past' screaming to be recognized or acknowledged. Maybe just plain-old fear. It helps me to know it will be there- it is there, I can selectively give it less weight by recognizing it's not (for me) just about trying harder. Yes, I'm stuck with the intrusions of the past, but I'm less apt to recognize the intrusions for what they are, than simply grounding. That I'm not as good at- discriminating. You were the one that pointed out flooding. I presume I have to 'do' something, I try to figure out "what the hell am I supposed to be doing?" Not as in grounding, but as in 'action'/ choice/ responsibility. Realizing what they are, and that they don't or won't necessarily go away when I ground or for that matter whatever I do or don't do, as Bill said, is in itself grounding for me.