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Where Do We Draw The Line As To What Is "past"?

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Thanks, that gives me a much better idea. Those all sound like good things to do in reaction to something. What I think you need, and part of what containment is, would add some aspects to what you've described.

One is that, as I said, what you're describing is reactive. A symptom comes up then you react to it. It sounds from what you say, and from how you relate to Bill's post, that you're highly symptomatic. You're basically quelling things. Does that sound right?

I think you need to be proactive about staying grounded so you don't get the symptoms. I think everyone needs to do this, by the way, not just you personally. We need to do it in anticipation of particular things that we know are coming up - for example, before you walk through the same door that Bill was talking about. We also need to do it generally, so that any unexpected door doesn't take us by surprise because we're much more stable. It's how I understand your statement:

I need to just be 'here'.

ie as opposed to trying to define the present as "not the past".

There are exercises for staying more stable and in the present generally. An example is when you're out and about is to carry a small compass and keep thinking about which direction your home is in. I think this is very effective for several reasons. By it's nature it's proactive because you need to keep doing it for it's own sake, not in response to any distress. But you're prompted to do it frequently, by neutral things - going round a corner, taking a seat, going into a shop, even turning to look at something. You have to focus on it, so it helps you stop drifting or dissociating. It keeps connecting you to the present and your physical self. It keeps connecting you to somewhere safe, on both a conscious and unconscious level. It meets an instinct that we have, as animals, to stay orientated.

There are other things like this that you can do generally to stay in your physical self and your present surroundings - to stop you from losing connection in the first place. Which helps to create a habit of doing that instead of losing touch and then needing to regain it.

The struggle is you can intellectually know and tell yourself there isn't a crazy guy with a 2 X 4 but that little guy that lives in the instinct department never learns and always pops his little head up and yells lookout.

I agree that knowing it intellectually will have little effect because the problem isn't in your intellect. So, you need to know it in other ways.

The way Bill describes it is an image, a visualisation. You can make the image different. You could imagine sending the little guy on a retraining course at Instinct University where he's taught to recognise the difference between real and not real. You could treat the amygdala to a spa holiday so it can de-stress and recover.

You could visualise things about the environment around you. You could imagine always being accompanied by dogs who go ahead of you and chase away any scary guys with 2x4s. Or you could imagine the area has already been swept clean of them before you arrive. Or you could imagine yourself walking through doors and on the other side there's something very peaceful that you love - the ocean, flowers, music, a gentle, safe person greeting you etc

You could imagine your stone as a magic stone that protects you when you walk through doors and makes anyone with a 2x4 disintegrate.

You could visualise things about your own safety and stability. I made a collage representing myself as a strong female bodybuilder, and put it where I would see it often.

Every time you walk through a door and there was no crazy guy, you can reinforce that to yourself. You can notice it. You can focus on feeling that you're OK, that it was safe and you are safe.
 
You've said there's no division, and I'm wondering what division you aim for. How you structure the different areas of your life and what do you do to separate them.

Right now I have a strange image that your whole day consists of symptoms and grounding, from morning to night. As if you basically get up then go and stand on a hill in a high wind until bedtime. But I'm assuming that there are other things going on - whether that's cooking, gardening, chores, going somewhere, seeing someone, attending church or whatever it is for you.

I know you've sad you're not in therapy, Leaving that out then, I'd be interested to know about this.
IDo you yourself have any rituals after therapy, or after journaling, or after being here on the forum that mark a separation between what you've been doing and the rest of life?
 
..part of what containment is, would add some aspects to what you've described.

One is that, as I said, what you're describing is reactive. A symptom comes up then you react to it... that you're highly symptomatic. You're basically quelling things. Does that sound right?

I think you need to be proactive about staying grounded so you don't get the symptoms. I think everyone needs to do this, by the way, not just you personally. We need to do it in anticipation of particular things that we know are coming up - for example, before you walk through the same door that Bill was talking about. We also need to do it generally, so that any unexpected door doesn't take us by surprise because we're much more stable. It's how I understand your statement:

"Just be 'here' " ie as opposed to trying to define the present as "not the past".

There are other things like this that you can do generally to stay in your physical self and your present surroundings - to stop you from losing connection in the first place. Which helps to create a habit of doing that instead of losing touch and then needing to regain it.

Every time you walk through a door and there was no crazy guy, you can reinforce that to yourself. You can notice it. You can focus on feeling that you're OK, that it was safe and you are safe.

Hi hashi, thanks, yes that is very true, I have been reactive and aware that I am. Just seems there are more triggers than I expected (realized I guess), at the moment.

Lol- the amygdala at the spa. :laugh: . Those are good ideas. I am not very good at visualizing, more I guess it is just a relief as @Bill Dickerson said to just recognize it is that instinctive kind of reaction, even knowing that helps. But I will try. I do actually 'think' in those terms before facing what I do know (just haven't provided a 'picture' in my head).

I also never 'congratulate 'myself' on managing triggers, etc.

I guess I posted this because I am sick to death of having to manage all these triggers as they do seem unrelenting, despite attempts in advance to stay grounded. And as a result I guess finding (new) present details like people and places that never were triggering now seem to be, it's 'morphing'. And my natural way of thinking follows 'now make a decision/ change it'.

Thanks Hashi.
 
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..Right now I have a strange image that your whole day consists of symptoms and grounding, from morning to night.

As if you basically get up then go and stand on a hill in a high wind until bedtime.

I know you've sad you're not in therapy

First part 100% correct, second couldn't be farther from the truth, 3rd actually not.

Posted this thread because first is true. For those who have up and left their life and/or spouse they 'get' what I'm saying. I can't even count how many times I've heard that ages-old song "Listen to your heart before you (tell him) goodbye". Including during SI plans. I never liked that song particularly but "not belonging to your dreams" certainly resonates. I don't have dreams. I fight almost every day to not give up. I'm tired of the battle, a lot, and yes, I "go through the motions". Not paricularly pretty but it-is-what-it-is. Feelings aren't facts. I realize they change. My baseline's not particularly high though.

Second, nope work full time large house etc etc very little free time. No gardening here snow to our eyeballs for now, lol.Though granted only go to work for 80 hours/ bi-weekly (plus commuting), and paid for less, not my choice but least I've worked in last 30 years. Not comfortable talking about more details of my life here on a public forum.

'Sad', absolutely not. Even if I could afford it I would never be able to open up quickly with anyone, no matter how motivated. And with the horrendous cost of therapy I can think of a 1000 places I could put that $ or people I could help. Were I hugely independently wealthy, at this point in my life I'd do that and my 'therapy' would be the Bahamas for 2 weeks and then I'd go work with the poor in Mexico, to be honest.

I guess that's how I saw Bill's post- "keep living". (And despite it. For what it's worth, when the Little Guy in my head is packing a 12-guage, as Bill said and I get implicitly, I find as my friend told me, "tell those thoughts to get lost/ F Off ". I don't befriend any part but the gut instinct, as another friend recommended, or try to listen to my heart-of-hearts.)
 
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Just to say, strange as it sounds Hashi it's not just your own perception, had a woman once come out of her house where she had seen me from her second floor, across a park to tell me a message she 'felt' she had, 'for the girl with the yellow flower in her hair' (that was me); didn't say she felt I was a 'ghost' but did say something very 'odd' to me. Without saying more said she saw me 'earmarked' for something she mentioned. She seemed to have all her faculties, we in fact talked about how to help her adopted daughter who had some failed SI attempts. So ya, 'stuff' can be weird. :confused: Then again, maybe it was a really-good-weird, actually. Strange for me because I'm quite practical/ pragmatic. (Same reason I don't visualize a lot).
 
For those who have up and left their life and/or spouse they 'get' what I'm saying. I can't even count how many times I've heard that ages-old song "Listen to your heart before you (tell him) goodbye".

Junebug, I think you need to start listening to a different song.
 
Haha, yes, well, just what came off the radio @Hashi . It's ok, if anything those times even that song was well timed. I think learning to 'STOP' , slow down, might help me. I think I need trust, patience, revving-down, to start, to even begin to start.

Thank you :hug: .
 
I have been so fortunate, :notworthy: , for the posts and help, I think it's enabled me to budge something big.

I think too much, and (then) I hold myself accountable for believing I have to make too many decisions, make them 'now' also, and the only ones that matter are 'concrete' (change/ end especially, start).

I am too serious and conscientious especially re: work, because of fear but it fuels anxiety also.

I many times need (or should be) stepping away, or I will never find a better perspective. Not so much stepping away from good things but things that fuel the anxiety. Or are self-harmful, self-deprecating, self-defeating, isolating, or really self-deleterious (dangerous).

Worry plays a huge part.

And I feel embarrassed because to me it feels/ is/ seems messed up and weak. Self-battery won't be very helpful though.

Smoking (ciggies) is contributing to my anxiety. I get a panic attack (no psychological component) in strong wind and checking for a leak unders a car (consistently), can't breathe. Lack of oxygen increases my body tremors and anxiety and worry.

I'm not used to the words "I can't (accomplish it)", or 'rights".

And I'm so very lucky I read something so kind about something who made fun of flood forcasters' delivery of the forcast. :eek: :wideeyed:

AND, I am tentatively excited/ hopeful, have a PUP coming (a rescue) wednesday, possibly to adopt!!!!!! :) :notworthy: :inlove: OMG. Four-legged-giving love-therapy. Am afraid to be 'hopeful'! :)

Hugs andThanks to all :hug: .
 
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I think something occurred to me yesterday that makes sense, that (especially when I am feeling lousy), I have no either ability or inclination or practice in 'expecting' or even 'imagining' things in the future could be 'ok'. I mean, I've always tried to find positives or not think about the negatives, to just do it, I minimize to the point of not acknowledging difficulties I would even for a stranger. But somewhat as a corollary from what @Bill Dickerson said, symptoms do occur. The next step is to think however, the present day or future can still be good, or is good. That feeling does not come naturally to me, and perhaps it is also because if one is 'in' those feelings (re-living them), it isn't natural to feel things ARE good or WILL be ok. I mean, they weren't then and that is what I am re-living. I mean apart from during a flashback I 'know' it's the present, but tell my heart that.

Also, I had no idea simple things like crowds sort of freak me out. I just noticed I do feel worn out and 'freaked out'/ wound up after dealing with them. I think there are a few things like that I've never paid attention to or recognized for what they are. Like I never thought I was hypervigilant, but I battle insomnia, sometimes 'have' to sleep with my clothes on, and even 'wake up' standing at the window, etc, on occassion. Also I can 'steel myself' to large things but small things I over-react to (physically). Like if someone leans forward I 'feel'/ react like they're having a stroke etc.

I think that's a big part of the present not feeling like the present, or the present or future feeling unbearably difficult or untrustworthy, like I'm 'missing something' (details, and I'm struggling to find them- I'm 'required' to, my mind thinks, ie hypervigilance of sorts). And interferes with current 'memories', day-to-day stuff.
 
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I think I've come to realize that almost everything that seems to cause great distress has or has had a connection to the past. I thought it was predominantly just current ptsd reactions that caused such grief, but I think those reactions are just compounded and intensified from past experiences, especially those which continue to the present day but haven't been recognized for the impact they have and have had. And that distress IS far greater than normal distress (that is, it compounds to truly greater grief, greater sadness, greater fear, etc). Hence why therapy and identifying past abuse, etc , would be so helpful to not feeling (and reacting) so badly.

I think that helps to understand a lot, why sometimes things feel so hard to manage, or are difficult. They are. Recognizing and reducing the parts that are actually contributing to what is already grief-causing probably reduces it to what a 'normal' person experiences.

I almost constantly worry what impact my own ptsd could have on others, but others, or their decisions and behaviours, have and have had an impact on me as well. I really never thought of that. :wideeyed:
 
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