BPD Avoidant vs borderline symptoms within ptsd relationships

[yoshixvx]

I saw a new P for a one-off "maintenance" appointment to deal with Pure-O/OCD symptoms and we talked about my C-PTSD diagnosis. I was told it is not an actual diagnosis (even though my file states that I "meet the criteria for Complex PTSD"), and that I have "both symptoms of PTSD and BPD". Confusing. He showed me the DSM-V on Borderline and I read the criteria. Some symptoms made sense but I had outgrown most - specifically the attachment and abandonment issues that so many BPD sufferers are afflicted with. I was admittedly co-dependent in my younger years, doing everything and anything to make sure security existed in otherwise flawed relationships. I was afraid to be alone, though I was perfectly capable of surviving alone, as I had done so during my entire childhood. My poor choices in partners did continue for over a decade, but after I sought help via Al-Anon, most of my attachment issues were addressed.

My understanding (and experience) is that people with BPD need constant reassurance, and physical/emotional contact, due to fear of abandonment, emotional dysregulation and prior neglectful experiences/trauma. This is pretty much the opposite of how I function. I am not currently in a relationship nor am I interested in pursuing anything at this time. My cycle has been to get into a relationship, leave it once I am overwhelmed, and not date again for at least 3-4 years (although it has been upwards of 6 at times). I can literally go weeks to months without speaking to anyone aside from cashiers and I am perfectly comfortable with that. It can be lonely at times, but I truly feel that my combination of interests and mental oddities are best left for the eager explorer. I don't seek romantic encounters, and it takes me years to open up and trust someone enough to allow them into my life.

I guess I am looking for some clarification from those who have these co-morbid diagnoses. I feel I meet the criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder more than BPD. I rarely find myself in relationships (this is an ongoing joke between my sister and I, she refers to me as a Vulcan who requires contact once per decade) and I am socially isolated by choice (fear of rejection). I am an introvert by nature and have social anxiety from trauma, but I do not require people in my life to feel content. Part of it is fear of intimacy due to poor role models in childhood, and equal is the fear of being triggered - which usually occurs in relationships (aside from sensory-specific triggers). There's no "I hate you, don't leave me" - it's more like "Don't like it? There's the door ->".

Thoughts?

 

[pamcoco]

Take this with a grain of salt since I haven't studied psychology in 20 years and am hardly a beaming example of self awareness....

I consider bpd to be especially notable in excessive adoration, in which the person of focus can do no wrong, followed by intense hatred in which the person of focus can do no right. Black and white thinking and difficulty with the shades of grey that are frequently the most honest representation of people. Over-attachment followed by disdain.
These attachment issues are projected onto the other narcissistically defining them through adoration and loss of adoration.

The ease you feel in being alone and with showing the door is not classic apd, because of the comfort you seem to experience letting go. Avoidants are tortured in isolation and avoid others due to feelings of inadequacy.

Not sure these labels are important in terms of treatment, whereas ptsd is a very important diagnosis, essential in receiving appropriate treatment. Personally my self diagnosis of 'hot mess' works well, covering any a litany of crazy.

 

[yoshixvx]

I was tortured (and torturing myself) for close to 20 years because of isolation.. I've always been afraid of people, rejection, and really had a crippling lack of self-esteem for most of my life. I believed that I was a "piece of shit" and undeserving, and that I did not belong on this planet because of social rejection. I sometimes still do. The difference now is that my clinical depression is stable, so I'm not getting so many feedback loops of self depreciation. So I'm not sure if I would have fit the diagnosis then and I've just grown accustomed to it, or?

Either way, "Hot (fearful) mess" seems like a well-rounded title for me as well. :giggle:

 

[Seaotter]

I have anxious-avoidant attachment and my BF/exBF is avoidant. I found Erica Djossa's blog post "getting-off-the-roller-coaster-breaking-out-of-the-anxious-avoidant-cycle" (I can't add links yet) points out how avoidant and anxious think... it's an eyeopener.

 

[yoshixvx]

(link for anyone reading: [DLMURL]http://ericadjossa.com/2014/03/29/getting-off-the-roller-coaster-breaking-out-of-the-anxious-avoidant-cycle/[/DLMURL])

I am definitely guilty of both of these attachment styles in the past (though fearful-avoidant applies to me currently), so thank you for bringing this article to my attention. Eye opener, indeed!

"Mistaking an activated attachment system for love" - my heart screams at 8 yr old me every time I hear this, and how sad that this type of experience paves the path for future relationships, and re-traumatizing ourselves by reenacting them in adulthood.

 

[Anna]

I have BPD and PTSD.

I am terrified of my partner leaving me. I sometimes have terrible nightmares about it and wake up crying. He tells me he loves me, but my self hatred often pushes him away. The amount of times I say "You don't love me" per day is very very high. I honestly have no idea how he puts up with it.

I cannot believe or get into my head that someone could actually love me. It really does get difficult and annoying for him sometimes. Also because I have VERY high standards so he feels that nothing he does is ever right.

I am over emotional and get very upset easily. I often feel like I want to leave him and push him away. Then I have these dreams of him leaving me. It is totally bizarre.

I come across as being very cold and distant, people have told me this, but when I do get close to people they are shocked about the real me. However, I do not like getting close to people and often push them away because they hurt me so much. Stupid things that other people would not even think about offend me and I get upset. My reaction is to close down and become emotionally numb. It is like I either feel like I am emotionally overwhelmed or emotionally numb. There is no inbetween. The same goes for other people, they are either all good or all bad.

Black and white thinking and difficulty with the shades of grey that are frequently the most honest representation of people. Over-attachment followed by disdain.

This is exactly the case. When I believe people are bad, I sometimes feel like they are going to try to hurt me somehow. I will often break off all contact with someone before they hurt me. A few months ago a friend came up to me as I had shunned her and said to me
"It is me ******, I am not going to hurt you, I do not want to do you any harm, I am your friend" It was then I realised I had over reacted to a comment she made and took everything so personally and to heart, a comment that was supposed to be a joke. Suddenly she became the enemy. Tone of voice, facial expression, I am very very sensitive to this and also of the way people treat me :(

For years I believed everyone thought the same way as I do. It took me years to realise that not everyone was like this. I still have problems with trust, I doubt I will ever trust anyone.

 

[pamcoco]

Anna and Yoshixvx, you both have amazing awareness and that is remarkable. I think all people have many attributes of various diagnosis, it becomes the D of bpd and ptsd when the attributes are life altering and unmanageable. But your openness to your process is a huge aspect of gaining more control. You go down the scale in the D simply through obvious self awareness.

I have always had HUGE abandonment issues. Pleading and begging that the various LoSeR men not leave and swallowing all my intuition and justice for more abuse and wasted time.

The last decade sent mostly everyone and everything I once valued, out the door. About 2 years ago to really embraced the closing of the door. I have sat in solitude through the worst period of my life including many health problems leaving me unable to walk, crawling on the floor. Several times I've crawled on my hands and knees down the 100 foot concrete driveway to make it from the street to my bedroom. At first I was heartbroken by the vacancy of compassion and help. And then I began to feel some of the first freedom I have ever felt - release from paralyzing abandonment.

I finally realized, I did crawl and I did it completely ALONE. I have found that I am the strongest person I know and some aspect of the abandoned little girl is my gimmick. I act weak, I tell myself I am weak and a lot of that is a lie so I don't intimidate anyone and they will like me. That is a tangent and not exactly sure what I mean.

But anyone with ptsd is a survivor. What we have survived is variable but our sheer will is unifying. It is odd that ptsd is considered poor coping skills to many. I have noticed those 'many' have never experienced even a small percentage of the trauma and people always project magnificent coping skills in situations they have never faced.

We are strong. Perhaps weathered and cracked, but strong ;-)

 

[yoshixvx]

I have found that I am the strongest person I know and some aspect of the abandoned little girl is my gimmick. I act weak, I tell myself I am weak and a lot of that is a lie so I don't intimidate anyone and they will like me.

I do this as well, or push away completely, and it's only existed after years of being told I was "too intimidating" and "too unapproachable" for most people, so I would play the helpless child in order to placate my partners (the symptoms of which I find psychiatrists love to focus on more than the actual causes or purposes of said coping mechanisms).

I've been thinking about this topic over the past day and I think I do notice a regression in symptoms when I feel threatened with loss - particularly in a relationship scenario. I don't really feel compelled to act in any way that suggests a need for control outside of these experiences.. like many, I suspect relationships can be the best and worst thing on the planet.