Wondering About Some Peoples Perceptions Of What Being "attacked" On Forums Means?

[Philippa]

I've noticed a lot of it here and was constantly being accused of attacking people in another forum I once frequented, when from my point of view I was being blunt. How is it that so many people think that being challenged or having someone direct an expression of frustration at them means they are attacking them personally and with intent to harm?

I get that so many people have been abused...especially here, and I can see how that would make them overly sensitive to criticism but it seems to have gotten so out of control these days, especially when it comes to political correctness, and people using the "you're attacking me" card to garner some control over a person or situation or general audience, who they hope will take their side and shun the one they perceive to be "attacking" them.

If a person expresses freely their frustration or honest feelings about something someone else said or did, why is it that so many people seem to take that personally, or as though it is a personal dig at them? It's not pleasant to have your faults or shadow side pointed out to you of course, and I get why people get upset at that...and it seems like the person saying it is being 'mean'...but actually later on it usually turns out that that person was trying to show you something about yourself that would help you grow and not just kiss your ass or say nice words to gain your approval...which humans tend to want above all else, even if they don't grow from it. Ego loves all that crap...but it doesn't actually do much to help the person grow.

To me, unless the person is telling me I'm a stupid f*cking f*cktard with the intellectual capacity of a gnat, or being called a slut or whore...I rarely ever see a person being direct or blunt even as attacking me. I HAVE once experienced the feeling of someones bluntness being too much for me online, and it did FEEL pretty harsh to receive, and I'm pretty blunt myself.

I put it down to different individuals levels of what they can and cannot handle, but still not an attack as such...just my own mind superimposing tone and meaning from the persons words, on a medium that doesn't reveal tone at all, and sometimes meaning is obscure and hard to decipher. It made me react as though I were being harmed in some way, but actually, I wasn't, my ego just didn't like being told something that contradicted it's self image.

So yeah...curious...Is it that people mistake "attack" for calling out someone about their own behaviour, because that seems to have been the case for every time I was accused of attacking someone on a forum, or as a way of twisting it to make the person giving feedback directly as being a monster...to demonize them, and take the focus off themselves? Sort of like an egoic defense mechanism.

To me, calling someone out may be unpleasant but it doesn't actually hurt the person...so how can it be an attack? Attack means to try and deliberately,maliciously and intentionally hurt or destroy something or someone.

Giving honest feedback or expressing feelings honestly, even if it annoys or leaves you feeling hassled, is not the same as trying to destroy someone or hurt them. The person may not be totally 'right' or accurate in their assessment, and you never have to believe what they are saying, but they still have the basic freedom to say it, whether you want to hear it or not. It actually conveys that the person gives a shit about you enough to tell you things you don't want to hear, so you can maybe grow from the feedback. If they didn't care, they wouldn't even bother.

Anyway, I just felt the need to put it out there, in the hope that some may read it and be able to take in my perspective and look at how they may be thinking or perceiving things in this regard in a distorted or perhaps unrealistic way...and look at maybe creating more realistic thoughts to replace those distorted ones. I just think it would really prevent so many unnecessary conflicts and misunderstandings from taking place online.

 

[scout86]

Interesting and complicated topic!

My T likes to say that "communication is what the hearer hears, not what the speaker intends." Intent is hard to sort out and it's easy to assume we know the intent. So, when you say this

Attack means to try and deliberately,maliciously and intentionally hurt or destroy something or someone.

it may be perfectly obvious to YOU what your intent was, but it may be much less obvious to someone else. Add to that, if we happen to pick a turn of phrase that reminds the hearer of something they've "always been told" we're going to push a button we didn't even know was there.

We all vary in how sensitive, or insensitive we are to negative feedback, even without adding layers of issues on top. So, at least I think, there are going to be different thresholds for what is perceived as intolerable or abusive.

You pointed out some things I hadn't thought of, like people using the whole "She's picking on me!" thing as a way to get attention or manipulate things. Interesting, to me, because I pretty much NEVER think of that angle. It's kind of "one of the holes in my road map of reality". We all have those and they vary. I suspect you're right. And then, I guess you have to consider different personalities (and, maybe, disorders) and what people have learned "works" over their life times.

So, I guess sometimes people are calling "Foul!" because they really believe they are being attacked, and sometimes maybe they're doing something else, and sometimes they may not even be aware of why they're doing what ever it is they're doing. The same from the other side, I guess. Some people may just be "blunt" or "outspoken". Others may have learned they can say what ever they want and then get let off the hook by saying, "I didn't MEAN to hurt your feelings! You took that ALL wrong. I was only trying to help, I'm just kind of blunt."

And then there are going to be people who've spent a lot of time dealing with people who have been manipulative, and they probably are going to have a real hard time taking things at face value......

I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to your question. I try to look at this place as a chance to learn. Not only about PTSD. Also about how to play well with others. I guess you can't expect to do that without a few skinned knees! :) I WILL say, I've been really impressed with how LITTLE of that sort of thing there is here. Especially considering this is basically a gathering of people with one, or more, mental health issues! I've seen a lot of gathers of people WITHOUT any diagnoses that aren't nearly as civil.

 

[Ghostybear73]

This is a subject I think I can answer. I have learned (or am learning) that if someone needs a bit of a reality check here on the forum, I let the admin do it or someone else. If someone needs a reality check online anywhere, I let someone else do it. Here is why:

1. I have had the same problems that you are saying and I have realized that if it happens in more than one place, online, at home, at work, etc., the maybe its not them, its me. Do a self reflection here.

2. After a nice little self reflection, you may notice that maybe you are using your own expectations as a bar for everyone to fill

3. After doing 1 and 2, you also may see that the perception of others in the way we speak might be dead on. For example, being brutally honest no matter how painful it may be, which you stated. I am the same way and some people are not wired to accept that, in fact most are not.

4. Once all that settles ask yourself this; is it really something that I need to drive home? Am I speaking to my children or complete strangers? Since you are talking about it being online, I'm guessing strangers, so do you really have an investment in this person?

5. If the answer is no, fall back to the saying, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". You are under no obligation to respond to any post.

I say all this because again, I have the same problem. I get so frustrated with people in general and it caused ME more frustrations in life that this is what I am currently working on.

Am I able to do it? No, not always, then I get like you, frustrated, confrontational, suicidal, homicidal, etc.

Exposing myself like I do here on this forum and practicing being nice, even when I don't feel it (or just skipping THAT post and not commenting) has made me a better person, has helped me to heal and I'm sure will help you too!

 

[Ghostybear73]

@scout86, I like your answer better than mine, maybe I can get admin to delete mine. I think you got in seconds before me or I would not have hit send.

I think I FAILED on this one, sorry if it is offensive or too harsh!

 

[catjudo]

I think it is perfectly okay for people to have different opinions. I think it is perfectly okay to voice those opinions, bluntly even if that's your style. I think there is very little to be gained by always telling people only what they want to hear.

But when I hear someone say they are calling out another person on their behavior, maybe it's just my interpretation of the phrase, but that does seem more like just an act of pointing out what you perceive to be their flaws. I would question the intent or even what is to be gained by that.

Certainly give an opinion on a different way you might have perceived or handled the situation they are discussing...give your own different perspective. But to do it in a way as to call out that person's flaws seems like it would make that person just shut down and not really hear what you're trying to convey.

That being said, unless you're directly name calling or other such similar behavior, I don't think it's really attacking...just perhaps not the best way to get your message across.

 

[scout86]

@Ghostybear73! Nooooooo! I like YOUR answer! Leave it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Go Hungry]

Actually @Ghostybear73, I think your response was a very good one. No need to delete at all. :)

I think a lot if it comes down to boundaries. They work both ways, in setting up and enforcing your own, but also respecting those of others. I know that back when I had NO boundaries, I was a total dick because I didn't understand that other people did have them, and had a perfect right to them. So I would come off as an asshole without intending to. It really sucked, and was very difficult to come to terms with.

Likewise, I've known (and been) people who have no boundaries of their own, and shriek to high hell when I would stick fast to mine. I mean like, complete and utter shitstorm meltdown about it. So there's a great deal of play in it, from people who have different levels of their own. Boundaries are not a judgement, or submission, they just are.

And also a big thing to keep in mind, is that as @scout86 said, "communication is what the hearer hears, not what the speaker intends." This is so completely and profoundly true. Actions (and words are actions) that seem completely innocuous and neutral to a speaker can be perceived as extremely damaging by other people. Like, full on blasphemy; a 'Thing which should not Be.' This compounded by the fact that when you're speaking in text, nobody can see your facial expression or hear the nuances of your voice. Nobody can pick up on sarcasm or know the gravity of your words. Every part about your statement goes through their mental processes. And even worse, they have it in writing and they can examine it back and forth and ruminate and imply all kinds of meanings to it that you never intended.

Finally, consider that with the relative anonymity of the internet, people say all kinds of things that they would never say to a persons face, and everybody, both speaker and listener, knows that. So it's really difficult to tell if somebody is trolling or being honest. Overall, a prescription for disaster. Because paranoia flourishes on the internet like crazy.

And lets face it, paranoia is a big symptom of anxiety, which everybody has to some degree or another. But we are more vulnerable to it than most. :(

So really, I try and take some time to think about what I'm writing, (when not triggered :confused:) and be more gentle in my approach. I try and keep in mind that everybody has differing levels of boundaries, and that text isn't the best medium for communication. It's just my thing.

Now if only I could keep all of this in mind, all of the time, I would be golden! :p

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

Just want to start by saying - I have no idea about the encounters to which you refer. I don't know whether it's just been my mental state or because I'm picking up on some of the negativity (I'm hypersensitive to anything like this) documented in at least two threads now, but I've been on here less recently. I'd agree with Ghostybear however with the basic advice I frequently give myself:

if it happens in more than one place, online, at home, at work, etc., the maybe its not them, its me. Do a self reflection here.

As you are entitled to your opinion and views on a matter, other people are not only entitled to their opinion and if their view is different they are also entitled to disagree. The problem is rather than disagreeing on the toppings of a pizza you're about to order or a even someone else not either of you, you're disagreeing with something personal to the other person - themselves. Just as your tone of voice cannot be detected in an online post, neither is it possible to be entirely aware of whether someone needs calling out in the first place and if someone has been very much misunderstood they make become defensive and feel attacked. Then there is this too:

But when I hear someone say they are calling out another person on their behavior, maybe it's just my interpretation of the phrase, but that does seem more like just an act of pointing out what you perceive to be their flaws.

I think it's difficult because for many people here they probably need to be told that something we're doing is causing us more problems than solving or to pull ourselves together or whatever but for just as many people, they are hyper-aware of every single little flaw they have. Rather than being shamed to a positive outcome, they need to be gently coaxed and reinforced to boost their self esteem so that they can believe in themselves and overcome the problem(s) on their own. Also if someone comes looking to vent and/or for a bit of validation, any criticism can hurt.

If you were to actively push/hit someone you would hurt them, (no accusations, purely hypothetical) BUT if you knock someone when turning around and you hurt that someone, no one is at fault but you did hurt them and the best thing would be to apologize for the mishap and move on. There is also an in-between range for these things on both sides.

You pointed out some things I hadn't thought of, like people using the whole "She's picking on me!" thing as a way to get attention or manipulate things. Interesting, to me, because I pretty much NEVER think of that angle.

My experiences with these accusations (towards me) in real life have been that these were used to minimize my genuine pain. It's broad generalising to me is very similar to a various' stigmas and the act of stereotyping (again not accusing, just sharing how others may perceive it). Realistically I'm sure it does happen, I think it probably doesn't happen often as many people think it does and even when it does, maybe that person needs the attention anyway or is trying to get the conversation understood from their perspective? Surprisingly, after everything I've been through I still always prefer to operate the the benefit of the doubt side of things - though this is also a problem I probably need to be called out on as if someone is manipulating me - I see it as my fault not theirs!! :S

I think I should probably stop typing now this seems like enough text! Good thread though. :)

 

[JEKBreatheandBelieve]

I think it's really hard to interpret what people originally meant. There's not way to read the tone sometimes in posts. A couple of times people have posted something in response to something I wrote and I get upset. My best rule of thumb that I have been able to use pretty consistently so far, is to take a step back and leave the computer. Then, come back and re-read what was written. If I still feel upset, like it was an attack, then I ask myself something like was @Ghostybear73 said, only I ask do I really need to defend myself or to respond to this. And the answer is usually nope, I can just move past it and keep going. And sometimes when I go back to re-read I might find that what someone said was just what I needed to hear only I wasn't ready for it. Interacting with people is complicated and I definitely think there are polite ways to phrase things and if you want to make sure people know you are not attacking them, there are qualifiers you can add to what you write.

 

[Chava]

It seems obvious that people on this forum might be extra sensitive. Given that, and the fact that we are trying to communicate over the internet, there is certainly room for misinterpretation. That being said, I haven't been accused of "attacking" anyone, so if it's happened to you several times, even if you aren't attacking anyone, you might want to go back and read your tone...or double check how what you are saying relates to what people are asking for. Sometimes it's hard to know what people are asking for (and I know I don't even know what I'm asking for myself, half the time). If someone wants to not feel alone, to feel validated or supported, pointing out their flaws or being too direct is maybe interpreted as less supportive. ?? I had an AA sponsor that was very direct and sometimes tough on me, but we had a pretty strong relationship before that worked well. I didn't take it well from others, partly because being direct with me without actually knowing me feels diminishing and overly simplistic.

I haven't felt "attacked" by anyone here but I've been replied to in ways that I felt less than helpful...like the poster dragged their own sh*t into my post and didn't "hear" me really. Like when I was extremely sad I wanted to die, and coming out of scary panic (heart arrhythmia that I had to get checked out), someone told me to pull myself up by my bootstraps. In short, that's not exactly what I was looking for!! My therapist knows me pretty well, and she does a great job of trying to find out what would be supportive, and asks questions. So even from her position of knowing me more directly, she does not point out my faults, she doesn't make me feel weak or try to simplify the problems too much...she's good at just asking questions to gear me towards finding solutions for the difficult moments. I guess that's roughly what's helpful here, too. Just people "listening" and sometimes providing ideas for direction without telling others what to do or pointing out what is wrong with us. As if most of us don't feel fundamentally flawed because of our trauma already.

For me, responding to others is a good way to practice empathy. If a post sort of rubs me the wrong way or irritates me, I don't respond because I don't actually believe I'm coming from a place of wanting to help that person. I let others respond in more helpful ways. I don't think I've seen any of your posts, so this is no judgment...maybe you really are bumping against people who are extremely triggered, have really strong personalities, or who you really can't click with. I think we can trigger more sh*t in our fellow trauma sufferers if we aren't careful. Anyway, I'm glad you brought this up because I have seen some posts that seemed to go downhill, whether from a point of misinterpretation or not...we should defer to the original poster, I think, and if we're not being helpful, move along and try to be helpful elsewhere...

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I think some people don't like it when you're blunt. And then they think they can have a thread where they talk about you without using your name, and think you won't see that either. I have no idea if it really was me mentioned in that thread, but yeah, regardless, its simply rude behavior to complain about someone with the *wink wink* we all know who you're talking about sort of behavior.

I think there are also a lot of paranoid people on here. I have had more than one person say I was following them around and replying to their posts....uhm, I reply to everyone's posts, so there was no "stalking" behavior going on, even though the other person wanted to believe that I was only looking to reply to them! But, whatever will feed their delusions, I guess.

Attacking would be saying something like "you are f*cking ugly and you are a horrible person and everyone hates you!" That is attacking behavior. Many think that attacking behavior is anything that doesn't support their current behavior and make them feel "in the right". I don't buy that.

For what its worth, I've never had an issue with your bluntness, Philippa. I don't even notice it as being harsh in any way.

 

[Notsowild]

Because we are all in different stages of healing here it is hard to give your honest opinion. We have to take that into consideration first. IMO Being a CSA survivor I am overly sensitive and need the more kind opinions sometimes. But I have had blunt responses and probably needed them at the time too.

We do not truly know one another here. We are not therapists. It's a slippery slope. We should show more compassion on here especially to new-comers. Once we get to know them better than more bluntness can be issued. Just my opinion.