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Nicolette
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He probably doesn't know himself. :unsure:
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General What's Allowed?
- Post starter Determinedone
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- #14
Determinedone
Bronze Member
So what do you recommend? I'm new to this group. Are there members on both sides of the situation? Is there a difference between combat ptsd and non combat ptsd or is the same thing?
Justmehere
Sponsor
Wow. He is being so mean. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
I get overwhelmed in relationships and push people away, but this seems different. Something about this feels very push/pull - is that how you experience it? It almost sounds borderline.
Whatever is going on, the only thing you can change is you. Doing what you have always done isn't likely to work anymore.
I'm glad you have a therapist. I agree that just leaving him isn't going be an effective boundary - it's just what he wants - to isolate. But I do think your therapist is right in setting some kind of boundary. When I have pushed people away or even been really angry at them because of my ptsd, it was deeply helpful when they told me "enough." Others who were just patient with me never really helped. It left us both burned out in the end.
I wouldn't push him to talk about the trauma, or even about how he feels. It's good to offer to be there to talk if he wants to, but the emotional experiences of ptsd are humilating and very hard to describe. It's hard to put into words and it feels threatening, dangerous, to talk about them. Being pushed to talk is really hard to take, even when it's very well intended.
It is good to talk through making your relationship work would be a good idea. I wouldn't ask him every day, but clearly neither of you are happy and need to work this through. It will be so important to find effective boundaries to keep from being treated so badly. He's being really means towards you and just being patient doesn't ususally stop or change behaviors like this.
I write from a position of having ptsd myself.
I get overwhelmed in relationships and push people away, but this seems different. Something about this feels very push/pull - is that how you experience it? It almost sounds borderline.
Whatever is going on, the only thing you can change is you. Doing what you have always done isn't likely to work anymore.
I'm glad you have a therapist. I agree that just leaving him isn't going be an effective boundary - it's just what he wants - to isolate. But I do think your therapist is right in setting some kind of boundary. When I have pushed people away or even been really angry at them because of my ptsd, it was deeply helpful when they told me "enough." Others who were just patient with me never really helped. It left us both burned out in the end.
I wouldn't push him to talk about the trauma, or even about how he feels. It's good to offer to be there to talk if he wants to, but the emotional experiences of ptsd are humilating and very hard to describe. It's hard to put into words and it feels threatening, dangerous, to talk about them. Being pushed to talk is really hard to take, even when it's very well intended.
It is good to talk through making your relationship work would be a good idea. I wouldn't ask him every day, but clearly neither of you are happy and need to work this through. It will be so important to find effective boundaries to keep from being treated so badly. He's being really means towards you and just being patient doesn't ususally stop or change behaviors like this.
I write from a position of having ptsd myself.
@Determinedone I have a friend who's husband was a DOD employee with several deployments and every time he came back he was like a different person. Some things that she would do were to ask him to just call her and let her know if he was going to be late after work so she wouldn't expect him for dinner. She never asked him about what happened during his deployments, he would eventually just start talking about what he could talk about...there are some things that are kept secret that they just can't talk about (under contract). She would try to make home the most calming place that he could ever be, and although she wanted his affection she would ask if it was okay to get a kiss or hug.
I know this all seems very different from what you know your husband to be but he and others have lived in a very dangerous place where they have had to be very vigilant about safety...where they went, how they reacted to others, what they said could be the difference between life or death in a matter of seconds. They have to be in a very tight knit community for their own safety's sake. Sometimes it takes them a while to realize that they are no longer in danger and they can relax now. Your constant questioning about what he's thinking may bring up the same type of stressful feeling that he felt while deployed. Relax a bit. Allow the man that you love to emerge. He's still in there and I'm sure he will find his way back home to you. I have no doubt that you will be together for a very long time.
I know this all seems very different from what you know your husband to be but he and others have lived in a very dangerous place where they have had to be very vigilant about safety...where they went, how they reacted to others, what they said could be the difference between life or death in a matter of seconds. They have to be in a very tight knit community for their own safety's sake. Sometimes it takes them a while to realize that they are no longer in danger and they can relax now. Your constant questioning about what he's thinking may bring up the same type of stressful feeling that he felt while deployed. Relax a bit. Allow the man that you love to emerge. He's still in there and I'm sure he will find his way back home to you. I have no doubt that you will be together for a very long time.
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- #17
Nicolette
Supporter Admin
I wish I could give more and comment but I've repeated myself so many times that it is exhausting.
Maybe read things like:
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/ptsd-the-impact-on-relationships-continued.4941/#post-81729
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/the-ideal-carer.13746/
or check my bookmarks on my profile. I'm sorry, I identify but I don't have the energy.
In a nutshell, when I was dealing with that type of behaviour I would simply say "I don't deserve to be spoken to like this and I don't like who you are being right now" and leave the room to give him time to process it. I would also not stay in a room if he was being mean to me and I'd say "you can come and talk to me when you decide to be nice". You need to remember that sometimes their brains are overloaded so you need to stand your ground but give them some time to digest what you've said.
Friday
Sponsor
Since you asked for a PTSD perspective... (Memorize those links Nicolette put up! Seriously.)
I'm not your beaux, I won't speak for him, don't know what's running through his head. But I just got smacked with a wet fish realizing how awful(and unhelpful) some of the things I say are. When I think they're the opposite. Because I say (or think) those exact same things, an awful lot of the time. I'll still probably keep saying them. But it's a good reminder people can't see the movie running in my mind.
yea if we're together... For me, 3 things here. 1, if I'm actually saying it to someone, instead of just being nauseous about it and thinking it; I really, really trust them. In a bad place, I don't know if I'll be alive next week, and tomorrow's plans are too much. Next season? Next year? Holy cow. I miss thinking ahead in terms of years. I'm in hours and days. And even then my plans often get torched. 2. I'm thinking the other person has had enough of my shit (I know I have), and is within their rights to have left long ago, so any day now, they're going to wise up and get fed up with me. Half honest assessment, half insecurity run rampant. 3. You have kids, yeah? You remember how nervous you were when they were first born? Before you got used to bumps and bruises, tantrums and sleepless nights, fevers and babysitters? When you still thought someone might snatch them the first chance they got / if you took your eye off even for a moment? But as they got older, you relaxed, right? #2 about a million times less mental anguish about doing everything right? (luvs commercial just rocks that). That's because your fears were laid to rest. Day in and day out, everything was fine. Your faith in yourself as a parent and them in their continued existence grew every single time they were okay. In "developing countries" the opposite happens. Your worst fears come true. Daily. Kids die, families are torn apart, your friends are killed, your "friends" turn out to be psycho, or betray you, or damaged. Your enemies start to make sense. You end up liking someone you would have hated anywhere else. You can't make a difference. People do evil things. Bizarre things become normal. Or hilarious. Instant reactions are necessary, not rash. Your moral compass shifts or rusts, locked in place. You don't do what you always thought you'd do. Someone else does. Or doesn't. (The list goes on). Everything, in conflict zones, is backwards. Survival & chaos becomes clean and simple. Hard wired. And it's backed up, day after day, after day... With death, pain, and suffering. Things our brain, all of our brains, are wired to pay attention to.
When I'm thinking... Yea, if we're together... It's an honest collage, montage, of all the things that can go wrong (death, disease, divorce, adultery, suicide, assaults, accidents, corruption) and do go wrong on a constant basis. There. They happen here, too. Just not so alarmingly frequently. There? Everyone has been raped, lost someone they care about in violent ways, gotten dear John/Jane letters, etc. It's the norm. So why wouldn't it happen to me, too? Of course it could. There's no 1st world defense mechanism built into "It could never happen to me". I could lose the people I care about most in an instant. Oy. And then you add in the other bits? Where I can't even think into the future anymore, and where I know I'm being a proper bitch, and putting my family through hell, and I would murder anyone who treated them this way... Any day now and they're going to wise up and leave me? And what kind of selfish coward am I that I keep putting them through this??? How can I keep,doing this to the people I love. It's not working. I can't fix myself. I can't stop hurting them. I need to leave. This isn't working. It's not working.
Again... I'm not your husband. These are my thoughts and experiences. Where my head & heart is at. 6s & 7s most of the time. I'm all backwards.
scout86
VIP Member
To begin with, there's nothing "normal" about this. It might help if you could look at people who have PTSD as something other than "them" too. Maybe it would be helpful to think of it like, if this is an adversarial situation, the adversary isn't your husband, it's the PTSD that's affecting the way his brain works and the two of you are actually on the same side.
I also can't speak for your husband. I'm pretty sure @FridayJones said it well, but this seems to be one of those days when I can't make myself focus long enough to read all the way through what she wrote! (Sorry FJ, because I'm sure it was well worth reading!)
Chances are your husband is thinking lots of things and blaming himself for everything that's wrong. He may lash out at others, but, inside, there's a good chance he sees himself as the bad guy.
There are a lot of reasons for not talking about what's going on inside your head. You might not want others to know that you're as crazy or as "bad" as you think you are. You might be trying to protect them. (You might be right, too!) You might think they don't really care. You might think that "knowing" will change how they feel about you. You might think it's YOUR problem, you should handle it....... Tons of reasons, some of them better than others.
Something I've been thinking about the past few months. I have PTSD because of things that happened long ago. The way I experience the world today is pretty much the only way I ever remember experiencing it. I had a good friend who had a normal childhood and was pretty much a buttoned down "normal" person. He came back from multiple deployments with PTSD. That was tough, because he was one of the people who didn't believe PTSD even existed, to begin with. I'm speaking of him in the past tense because he shot himself last March. I've thought about it a lot since then. It seems to be that PTSD must be a lot more difficult if you have a concept of "normal" and "before", like your husband apparently does. Because it really DOES change the way your brain works, and the way you see and experience things. I'm not sure I can really imagine what your husband is going through.
Again, I'm not saying he deserves a free pass, because he doesn't. You should "tolerate" those things that you "tolerated" before. I guess what I am trying to say is, if all this is PTSD related, then it's not something he's doing just for the heck of it to be deliberately mean to you. Even if it seems like it.
There are a lot of good resources here. Lots of information on returning from deployments and dealing with issues and what issues commonly come up. I hope you can find somethings that help you on this journey and I hope your husband decides to get help. My friend, for a long time, thought that people who claimed to have PTSD were "malingerers". He thought he should be able to just "snap out of it" by shear force of will. Ah that it were that simple! He did finally come around to accept that PTSD is a real thing and a real problem and that it's nearly impossible to deal with it without some kind of outside, objective help. That's the first step and it's the hardest sometimes.
I also can't speak for your husband. I'm pretty sure @FridayJones said it well, but this seems to be one of those days when I can't make myself focus long enough to read all the way through what she wrote! (Sorry FJ, because I'm sure it was well worth reading!)
Chances are your husband is thinking lots of things and blaming himself for everything that's wrong. He may lash out at others, but, inside, there's a good chance he sees himself as the bad guy.
There are a lot of reasons for not talking about what's going on inside your head. You might not want others to know that you're as crazy or as "bad" as you think you are. You might be trying to protect them. (You might be right, too!) You might think they don't really care. You might think that "knowing" will change how they feel about you. You might think it's YOUR problem, you should handle it....... Tons of reasons, some of them better than others.
Something I've been thinking about the past few months. I have PTSD because of things that happened long ago. The way I experience the world today is pretty much the only way I ever remember experiencing it. I had a good friend who had a normal childhood and was pretty much a buttoned down "normal" person. He came back from multiple deployments with PTSD. That was tough, because he was one of the people who didn't believe PTSD even existed, to begin with. I'm speaking of him in the past tense because he shot himself last March. I've thought about it a lot since then. It seems to be that PTSD must be a lot more difficult if you have a concept of "normal" and "before", like your husband apparently does. Because it really DOES change the way your brain works, and the way you see and experience things. I'm not sure I can really imagine what your husband is going through.
Again, I'm not saying he deserves a free pass, because he doesn't. You should "tolerate" those things that you "tolerated" before. I guess what I am trying to say is, if all this is PTSD related, then it's not something he's doing just for the heck of it to be deliberately mean to you. Even if it seems like it.
There are a lot of good resources here. Lots of information on returning from deployments and dealing with issues and what issues commonly come up. I hope you can find somethings that help you on this journey and I hope your husband decides to get help. My friend, for a long time, thought that people who claimed to have PTSD were "malingerers". He thought he should be able to just "snap out of it" by shear force of will. Ah that it were that simple! He did finally come around to accept that PTSD is a real thing and a real problem and that it's nearly impossible to deal with it without some kind of outside, objective help. That's the first step and it's the hardest sometimes.
- Post starter
- #20
Determinedone
Bronze Member
Hailstorm- I've done most of the things you speak about and somedays it works and others not so much. My husband seems to be dealing with a lot of stuff all at once although he doesn't speak about it if i push aside the bs and the disrespect I can hear little pieces of info which offer insight into some of his thoughts. But that's only once in a while. Most if not all of his responses to me are "i'm good, whatever , it doesn't matter, and whatever you wanna do. "
Justmehere_ You are right at times it does seem very push, pull. It would appear that he enjoys seeing the hurt on my face, other days his eyes light up when i walk in the room, but he quickly turns away so i can't see the love in his eyes. He will then say something obknockious in order to exit the room and justify his nightly hour every night after work spent in the bathroom with the door locked? NO matter how much space I give him after work that's a daily thing.
Nicolette- thank you for the advice and the links. I would't tolerate any of this from someone i just met. I would be gone so fast. But this ins't anyone he's a man that i've built a future with and I wanna give him every opportunity to try and work this out. My love for him has'nt lessened even in this current storm we seem to be caught in. In fact I love him more because at times I can see the hurt in his eyes. And just for a minute the old him reaches out and says heyyyyy i'm still here don't give up on me. He made a comment one day I said he was my sexy husband, he looked down at himself and said i guess if you still want me... I try and remain kind to him even at times when he isn't to me. There have been a few times when i've went off but i quickly appologized, even though he admitted that he will never apologize because in his eyes he does nothing wrong. This isn't him talking it's the ptsd.
Justmehere_ You are right at times it does seem very push, pull. It would appear that he enjoys seeing the hurt on my face, other days his eyes light up when i walk in the room, but he quickly turns away so i can't see the love in his eyes. He will then say something obknockious in order to exit the room and justify his nightly hour every night after work spent in the bathroom with the door locked? NO matter how much space I give him after work that's a daily thing.
Nicolette- thank you for the advice and the links. I would't tolerate any of this from someone i just met. I would be gone so fast. But this ins't anyone he's a man that i've built a future with and I wanna give him every opportunity to try and work this out. My love for him has'nt lessened even in this current storm we seem to be caught in. In fact I love him more because at times I can see the hurt in his eyes. And just for a minute the old him reaches out and says heyyyyy i'm still here don't give up on me. He made a comment one day I said he was my sexy husband, he looked down at himself and said i guess if you still want me... I try and remain kind to him even at times when he isn't to me. There have been a few times when i've went off but i quickly appologized, even though he admitted that he will never apologize because in his eyes he does nothing wrong. This isn't him talking it's the ptsd.
- Post starter
- #21
Determinedone
Bronze Member
fridayjones- your response hit me the hardest. I actually had to step away for most of the day in order to take in everything you posted. It's unbelievable and heartbreaking at the same time trying to grasp your situation. It sounds so much like my husband. And reading your thoughts and daily struggles expains some of the pain that's been inflicted on not just me but our children, close friends, and confused family members. I can't tell you how many have abandoned me for my decision to stand by and support my husband in spite of his ups and downs. All i can tell you is my love is real, and it's not going anywhere. The last 18 months i've worried myself about his every word, replayed his actions and tried to decipher his jumble of disrespect. after reading your post i do feel better, at least i know it's not intentional.
Scout86- your post also gave insight into his world. I am trying different techniques as far as reaching out to him or just trying to get to know the new him. Theres a wonderful man trapped inside that body and i'm not in a hurry to go anywhere.
I appreciate each one of you for taking the time to help me decipher what's going on. Having someone give me some idea of what's going on inside the mind of a person coping with ptsd is priceless. Praying for healing for all it torments.
Scout86- your post also gave insight into his world. I am trying different techniques as far as reaching out to him or just trying to get to know the new him. Theres a wonderful man trapped inside that body and i'm not in a hurry to go anywhere.
I appreciate each one of you for taking the time to help me decipher what's going on. Having someone give me some idea of what's going on inside the mind of a person coping with ptsd is priceless. Praying for healing for all it torments.
BlueOrange
Diamond Member
Towards the end of my first marriage, I stopped being nice to my (now ex) wife. I figured that it was good for her, a way of protecting her from false impressions that I was perfect. That relationship (mine) was mutually abusive, and I do still believe that I was doing the right thing in that case.
It is possible that his refusal to show you any light is motivated by a desire to protect you from the darkness he sees in himself. I'm reluctant to say that, because it can fuel codependent rescue fantasies.
It might be a conversation starter, to ask if that's what he's doing?
It is possible that his refusal to show you any light is motivated by a desire to protect you from the darkness he sees in himself. I'm reluctant to say that, because it can fuel codependent rescue fantasies.
It might be a conversation starter, to ask if that's what he's doing?
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- #23
Nicolette
Supporter Admin
I'm not saying this is you @Determinedone however worthy of a read https://www.myptsd.com/threads/it-takes-more-than-love.9032/
- Post starter
- #24
Determinedone
Bronze Member
@BlueOrange
Did you still love and want to be with your wife when you made this decision or had you already let go?
Did you still love and want to be with your wife when you made this decision or had you already let go?
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