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General "civilians"

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Being that this conversation hasn't died out yet. I thought I'd add a few more thoughts I skipped earlier. I've spot checked this thread a few times, and it is kind of eating at me.

Being retired military, I've heard and used the term "civilian" in many contexts. The community I belonged to often referred to civilians in many regards. Usually it was in a positive manner. Often though, it was that civilians are spoiled,and know not the sacrifices they didn't have to suffer for their freedom. The long deployments, the time away from family, the missed holidays, birthdays, anniversaries with family, so many other much deeper sacrifices (a friends death, their own health and/or sanity). So many other sacrifices I won't mention here. The term also implied working with civilians is like trying to herd cats. They lack organizational skills, don't work well as a team, accept directions, always have to massage the ego to get anything done, etc. (regardless of how you feel about this statement, try looking at it from a service members perspective before you get offended).

The military has a chain of command structure, rules to follow (with harsh consequences for failure to follow them), a sense of teamwork, a sense of family, that few who haven't served can truly understand. Yes, civilians can understand to a limited degree, but it's like a man trying to say he understands what it is like be pregnant and to give birth... A woman would laugh at him for such a statement.

There are other "communities" that have a similar sense of community. Aside from emergency services (police, ambulance, emergency room medical personnel) I find their comparisons humorously inadequate and overly grandstanding. A civilian car mechanic may have a sense of brotherhood with other mechanics and laugh at non mechanics trying to claim they know what is wrong with a poorly running car, it is nothing, NOTHING like being in the military in a war zone.

I wish I could explain to "civilians" what they are missing out on, but unless you experience it, it's just a vague concept. Most unrelated civilians don't work well as a team, accept directions, put others needs before their own for the benefit of the team. Yes there are exceptions, but as a general rule... not so much. Many people who think the previous description fits them, would have their eyes not only opened, but their eyelids would stretch over their heads like a reverse hoodie.

My wife is really into going to Renfairs (Renaissance fairs) and role playing with elaborate victorian costumes she makes herself. That community has a term of "Mundane" for the general population that isn't into Renfair and/or dressing up in costume and roleplaying. A sense of community within a community is fine IMHO. Everyone wants to "belong" to a community.

IMHO one civilian (past, present and future) calling another civilian a "civilian" is pathetically laughable to me.

Did I and others I knew use the term in a derogatory way? Usually not. A lot of what mattered was how badly the civilian pissed us off at the moment. Then it was simply an expression of anger, not hatred or contempt. Often it was more of a statement of disappointment. That most of humanity just doesn't "get it".

My 2 copper.

I did.webp
 
@ everybody: Thank you so much for the discussion!

@Barberian: At first I thought your post was pretty offensive but after taking a day to think about it I think you might have a point. I do think I am a pretty good team player if I want to and working with me is in no way like trying to herd a cat.

But there are some members of the military who fall over themselves to help you. When we moved a guy we hardly knew helped us. He even recruited his friends we did not know at all. We had a short talk about toys being expensive those days. The next day someone rang the doorbell. It was the guy again with a trunk full of used toys. He let our son choose what he liked.

When I met the first guy who was like that I thought he suffered from pathological helpers syndrome and was a little worried about his health - he risked his job googling for information to help us with something while he should have been working. By now I have realized that this is the normal for some military guys.

I think it's pretty sweet. :)

Anyway! It's just not right to use "civilian" as a slur. What if I chose to use "Hindu" as a slur and told them if they don't like it they might change their religion?

And where is the connection with tetris?

Maybe there is one. Maybe you can enlighten me.
 
Btw I noticed that some of the things people at mycombatptsd wrote about civilians where very offensive, much worse than what my husband says, as well as untrue. I realized that I might not be allowed reading there after I had already done that. Now I won't go there unless I am told it is okay for me to do so because I respect your privacy.
 
@Lemontree, the thing with this though is, it's not a slur. From the very definition of what slurs are. If struggling with that concept, you can ask yourself 'is this group of people using ___ word at others having power to get rid of those others and get away with it'? And there you've got the answers. Soldiers in general *as a group* don't wish to erase non-soldiers from existence nor would who employs them and society let that happen.

Let alone lemme ask you, why are you reading a site that isn't for you or about you and then taking offense? It's not aimed at you. It's not for your ears even if it's somewhere you can hear. It ain't *about* you, it's about people in the venter's life. So it has zero connection with you personally or your safety, why is it offensive then?

Honest question. It *may* help you to figure why this feels so in your court to you. Not because it is. But for your peace of mind.
 
And where is the connection with tetris?
If I'm understanding him correctly, there IS no connection with tetris, that's why it's funny.

You could use religion if you wanted too. You could use skin color. As they say down south, some folks would get bowed up about that. True. In my experience, most civilians don't think of "civilian" as part of their identity, even if it is. It's one of those words you can use and most people will let it slide through as "Oh yeah, 'them'. " Oddly, I find this to be particularly true of the very people who ARE "them". (Those I might otherwise refer to as "stupid M**F**ers".)

Have you got a good option for us? Other than to just not have or express the feelings?
 
Lemontree and all others, the mycombatptsd sit is only for veterans who suffer from ptsd from thier sevice in a combat zone. There are no exceptions. Please do not visit that site unless you quallify. They often don't play well with others, and you WILL be treated harshly if discovered. I don't go ther much anymore for personal reasons.
 
Lemontree and all others, the mycombatptsd sit is only for veterans who suffer from ptsd from thier sevice in a combat zone. There are no exceptions. Please do not visit that site unless you quallify. They often don't play well with others, and you WILL be treated harshly if discovered. I don't go ther much anymore for personal reasons.

I am not registered there. I just read there and now that I know that I was not supposed to even read there I will stop that.
 
@Lemontree, the thing with this though is, it's not a slur. From the very definition of what slurs are. If struggling with that concept, you can ask yourself 'is this group of people using ___ word at others having power to get rid of those others and get away with it'? And there you've got the answers. Soldiers in general *as a group* don't wish to erase non-soldiers from existence nor would who employs them and society let that happen.

So if I am a Christian and do not wish to get rid of Hindus and have no power to do so it is okay to use "Hindu" as a slur?
"He plays tetris like one of those Hindus" Would that be okay and Hindus had no right to take offense?
 
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I noticed that my husband sometimes jokingly refers to people as "civilians" if they are backstabbing, unsolidaric, idiotic, ineffective, lazy, clueless or have a poor attitude...

I think this can be a bit offensive. How do others feel about this?.

Jokingly or not if your spouse is referring to people who are backstabbing, unsolidaric, idiotic, ineffective, lazy, or clueless or have a poor attitude... how is "civilian" more offensive than any of the descriptions you yourself used in your opening post?

I weigh carefully what I or others might be offended by. If for example someone referred to me that way, or if I said it out loud to the person/subject?

For instance, I wouldn't mind being called a civilian nearly as much as I would mind being called by someone: backstabbing, unsolidaric, idiotic, ineffective, lazy, clueless, or being told I have a poor attitude.
 
So if I am a Christian and do not wish to get rid of Hindus and have no power to do so it is okay to use "Hindu" as a slur?

Can you explain this? I have no idea what it even means.

Why are you nit picking your spouses behavior in this area instead of talking to him about it. If it bothers you, then you will do one of two things. You will take the actions necessary to communicate your discomfort about his expressions, or you will accept it.

By focusing on this topic, what in your relationship are you avoiding while you're occupied and bothered enough to post on this?
 
Can you explain this? I have no idea what it even means.

Okay. Imagine there is a Hindu woman married to a Christian man. Whenever he talks about backstabbing, lazy people with a poor attitude he calls them "Hindu" and says things like "He plays tetris like a Hindu" or says about Hindu friends "Hindus - always bickering instead of building one another up".
She is a bit offended and ask at a board if his comments are may be a bit offensive.
People on the board tell her that it is not offensive unless her husbands wants to get rid of Hindus and has the power to do so and that Hindus by the way really suck working with them is like herding cats and they are unable to work on a team - at least compared to Christians.

A poster implies she needs to find out what it is wrong with her for not liking it.

How would you think about it?


Why are you nit picking your spouses behavior in this area instead of talking to him about it. If it bothers you, then you will do one of two things. You will take the actions necessary to communicate your discomfort about his expressions, or you will accept it.

Because he has not felt well and has just recently gotten better and there are more important issues than me being a bit offended by what he says.
 
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