General "civilians"

[Anarchy]

There are plenty ways to call his bluff; you can even break him in gently by requiring him to salute everything that moves (ie You) and polish everything that doesn't (the entire house - with a toothbrush...)

How neatly has he made the beds and folded the clothes?

What did he think "not civilian" meant? acting like a jack booted thug?

:hug: for you @Lemontree

 

[Mr Man]

Love your comment lemmontree. Of course it's rude - but having a lot of family in the Army, it has been explained as follows. When you're in the Army it's brothers in arms, and you stick together because civilians often have an issue with you (especially abroad). When you try and integrate back into society when you come out, it's hard to understand why people don't act as if they are in the Army. I.e. everyone follows commands, everyone acts as a unit. So it does sound like you husband uses the term to indicate, friend or foe. My gang or outside the gang.

I work as a Business consultant, and we had to explain to a client that he was losing money because he had the wrong staff. He would only recruite Army people, because he "couldn't trust civilians" they don't have the right attitude or work ethic. He had no choise but to do things differently and employ civilians, and he would now conceed his prejudice almost cost him his business. Because it is prejudice.

 

[Ronin]

No, civilian's being appreciating their difference.
Civvies is casual not giving a damn and civvie bastards is a good warning to get out of the way.

(No, seriously, I'm kidding. Pass it go. It's not offensive. It's categorizing people and not with intention to harm most likely. Or at least when I say civilian it's acknowledging someone I'm bound to protect or at least not endanger or just let be, do my thing and let them do theirs, kind of thing. It's nowhere near the land of wanting to insult people or the land of slurs.)

 

[Sweetpea76]

It's a total military thing. It's just part of the lexicon, or their slang... like calling sweat "liquid civilian." It's just a pride thing, I don't think he is doing it to say all civilians are bad, incompetent etc. It's probably just ingrained. I wouldn't take it seriously. It's like the guys calling us (wives/girlfriends) "Kitchen 6". It's just part of the culture.

 

[Kintsugi]

I agree with those defending it as a piece of cultural slang. I doubt he thinks of all civilians in a negative way. Sometimes I call the Christian southerners I'm surrounded by "goyim," which is a slur in Yiddish for non-Jewish person, especially if I'm talking to Jews. I'll also jokingly call a non-Jewish girl in a Jewish friend/relative/associate's life a "shiksa," which is a particularly weighted slur for non-Jewish women.

I don't hate non-Jews (I'm marrying one), and I don't say those things maliciously. I'm just part of a minority culture about which the majority that surrounds me is clueless about, so I have my little inside cultural slang to poke fun at the majority.

If it were bothering me, I would personally just start refering to anyone displaying any traits that could be seen as militaristic as jarheads, grunts, etc. But then, I'm working on my passive-aggression. ;)

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't understand why anyone defends the segregation of anybody based on some arbitrary classification. Would it be acceptable if it was racially based? No. Sexually based? No. Religiously based? No. But somehow condescending remarks of civilian vs. non civilian are tolerated......it doesn't matter the exact word, its the intent behind it, and if the intent is to put someone down based on not being part of a certain segment of society, that is wrong. Period. I'm surprised so many of you are so hateful. I know you'll defend this in some random way as you are blind to your own shortcomings, so it is what it is. Just sad, really.

 

[Lucycat]

I don't know the 'correct' definition of the word civilian, but we use it at work all the time. I work in Health Care and a civilian refers to any member of the public who is not staff. It is also used to denote clothing that is not a uniform. I have never heard it used as an insult.

 

[Ronin]

@Solara, but racially&sexually based designations have a history of dehumanizing people for who they are. Does using the word 'civilian' actually *harm* anyone? Does it take away anyone's humanity? They're nothing alike.

Race & sex is something you cannnot change, further more. It's something you stick for life. (and I'm not talking body shape in case of sex corrective surgeries.) Civilian status, you totally can. Another why these examples are apples & oranges.

 

[scout86]

I have to admit, I've been thinking about this one on and off It really never occurred to me that that kind of thing could be taken as offensive. I probably won't quit doing it, because most of the time I'm talking to myself anyway......

I'm surprised so many of you are so hateful.

In an attempt to not be blind to my own shortcomings, I'm wondering what anyone has said that's "so hateful".

I suppose there's a world where we can all rise above the situation and just turn the other cheek all the time. But, in THIS world, as mere mortals, when some guy throws something at a dog, who's behind the horse that I'm trying to nail a shoe on, and almost gets me hurt, I COULD scream "You stupid MF'er!" and throw my hammer at him. I COULD say nothing and go on about my business. I could stop what I'm doing and explain the problem with what he just did. (Which would be a waste of time because he's obviously a stupid MF'er.) Or I could shake my head, say "Civilians!" and carry on. But what ever I decide to do is going to be colored by the fact that that lizard part of my brain REALLY wants to kill him RIGHT NOW and remove him from the gene pool.

Which kind of leaves me struggling for some kind of response.

@Lemontree , I respect your point of view. I still don't quite get it, but I respect it and I appreciate that you shared it, because it's a perspective that had never occurred to me. The important thing, between you and your husband, I would think, is that you both think of the two of you as "us" rather than one of "them", The way he's using "civilians" I'm quite sure, is not literal. As has been demonstrated by a number of posters, that word gets used by an assortment of groups, to indict people outside the group who not only don't "get it", there's no particularly good reason to think that they WOULD get it. Yeah, it's a bit of a put down. And maybe we should never do that. Personally, I'm not that evolved (yet?). The best I can manage, especially under duress, it to be half way civil and maybe use humor. At this point in time, when people and situations are setting him off, you may have to chose between him calling people "civilians" and him calling them things that are much worse. He's probably going to be annoyed, regardless because changing the way you feel about this stuff is hard and, at best, a long term process.

 

[Anarchy]

I think context is very important.

If I go onto a construction site, my usual question to the first person I come accross is "Is the gaffer about?" In Britain, Ireland, America, and probably down under too, it is an innocent enough question.

When I've done jobs in Africa, I've made a serious conscious effort never to use that phrase - using it could have extreme consequences, upto and including a very painful death.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I'm just part of a minority culture about which the majority that surrounds me is clueless about, so I have my little inside cultural slang to poke fun at the majority.

^^ This

[DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/1860/"]@Solara[/DLMURL], but racially&sexually based designations have a history of dehumanizing people for who they are. Does using the word 'civilian' actually *harm* anyone? Does it take away anyone's humanity? They're nothing alike.

^^ And this. It's a long way from bigotry and exclusion. If a civilian wanted to join their club, it could be done with a quick trip to the recruiter.

I'm surprised so many of you are so hateful.

You just don't get it. It's not a hateful thing, rather a pride thing. It's not so much that civilians are "less", it's that they, as trained service members, are "more." There has to be some cockiness and alpha personalities going on to do what they do for a living.

If you are not a part of it, you will never understand what a culture unto itself the military is.

 

[ekane]

I could not stop marinating on this question.

First of all, I understand and relate to every response already given here. So I guess I'm just adding opinions on what I would do if I were you right now:

1- Tell him exactly how you feel and why. Context matters, you matter, and your feelings matter. He needs to understand that and value your feelings and take you seriously. I get the sense that by him using 'civilians' as a derogatory term, you feel he is actually insulting you as well. Your feelings are valid. There is a fine line there, where grouping everyone into "civilians" means he insults you, your family, your friends, anyone who is not active in the military.

2 - It is possible its supposed to be a joke, but don't let him claim it's all a joke during those instances where it was clearly not. I think you can tell the difference. Let him explain himself, but don't let him LIE. Maybe he will have a good explanation. Maybe he wont, and therefore it needs to stop, at least around you. I actually use the word "civilians" in a joking manner myself, and I have never been in the military and never will be. Sometimes with a good friend of mine, we talk about getting extremely dressed up in sexy outfits and fancy jewelry and "slaying those civilians" which is just very silly SLANG for "looking so good in our outfits that anyone who sees us is overwhelmed and in awe." But I could only imagine how this could be interpreted by people who do not know this slang, so that's why I'd never say it without privacy. My goodness, imagine the wrong person hearing this on an airplane these days... the flight would be cancelled and it would be a story mentioned on every news site!