Structural Dissociation?

[Hope4Now]

Are you speaking of a Kundalini Awakening?

Yes. Sometimes it's called a "syndrome" in the negative sense...or a "crisis"...when the symptoms are really intense. Thank you for this link. I haven't gone back to read about it for a long time because I got whisked away on the trauma train. I think it may be time to go back and read some more about it. Maybe even to go back to the yoga lady who I haven't seen for more than a year. I think I might have a different experience with her now.

In order to survive the trauma, you separated into a Physical Self and a Dissociated Self. To prevent destruction of your Core Self, you hid it where your abuser could not find it. You then forgot where you hid it, because if you could remember, there would be a chance your abuser might get the information from you and thereby gain access to your Core Self and possibly destroy it.

WOW. Spot on, whoever wrote that about the core self. My mother definitely would have found mine; she is relentless. So, perhaps it's a good thing I lost it for so long.

So...do you suppose we first have to reconnect the physical self and the dissociated self(ves) to access the core self? or maybe it's a gradual process?

I'm thinking this is why yoga and mindful/attuned movement seems to be the major recommendation for healing trauma in addition to trauma therapy (Bessel Van Der Kolk writes about this).

How DO we get over the phobia of being an embodied self? I really struggle with this.

 

[shimmerz]

So...do you suppose we first have to reconnect the physical self and the dissociated self(ves) to access the core self? or maybe it's a gradual process?

I think the physical self is the dissociated self. So I think it is about getting to the physical manifestation (after we have a sense of what we are dissociating about) before we deal with the emotional piece, which I believe will come up naturally. I think it is always body first (as we are born first to connect with our bodies) and then our emotional self. The two together imho make up dissociation. Merge them and I believe (just my thoughts) integration can happen.

It may well be that you can now deal with body work. It sounds like you have a good sense of what you are up against and your EP's are coming out with you having a level of awareness. Remember, I don't know jack, so these are just my ideas.

@Eleanor, neglect is abuse! There is just no hitting, because nobody can be bothered. I also don't know if you noticed but back in this post when I was dumping all sorts of information in, the one constant that I noticed was neglect and abandonment, not getting smashed against a wall. I would rethink your thoughts on this. Splintering is exactly what you would do impo.

So... like the first time you didn't have to "have a foot in both worlds?" A new identity as a "single" entity? That makes perfect sense to me.

First time I see EP's for what they are and I don't hate their guts and wish they would f off and die. Yes, that sounds better. :cool:
I watch what they are doing, I acknowledge them, I tell them they can do what they want but that we have a deal to do what is best for the system (core self) as a whole, but go right ahead if you want .... first consider this.....

It apparently works. They, like me, just need to know that someone gives a :poop:. You know, like when I get so angry at people for dismissing how I feel when I faint in front of them or when I am in hospital and people are taunting me? That is exactly what I used to do to my EP's. The proverbial buck, stops here.

 

[Eleanor]

neglect is abuse! There is just no hitting, because nobody can be bothered. I also don't know if you noticed but back in this post when I was dumping all sorts of information in, the one constant that I noticed was neglect and abandonment, not getting smashed against a wall. I would rethink your thoughts on this. Splintering is exactly what you would do impo.

I do have a hard time with this. It just seems... like a category mistake to me somehow. That there is something essentially different about active abuse and passive neglect. I need to go back and look at those posts I think. This does seem to be a blind spot with me. The irony (or not) I have thought is that my H's abusive father (who regularly beat the crap out of people) seems to have damaged him less than my folks damaged me. His mother is a different story... I have a nephew who was removed from his birth parents for severe neglect. He was a "failure to thrive" baby. I get that THAT is abuse. But somehow, just regular old emotional neglect where no one is actually mean to you... seems like it doesn't count. Intellectually I can see how this is pure bunk. But there is part of me that still seriously does not "get it."

The reality it sets up for me is this: I struggle and struggle and struggle and... it is invisible to everyone else. And I spent years making it invisible to me.

That is exactly what I used to do to my EP's. The proverbial buck, stops here.

Words I need to take to heart I think....

 

[shimmerz]

regular old emotional neglect where no one is actually mean to you

I had a friend once whose husband hated dogs. He used to chain it to a ladder in the garage in 100+ or -40 degree weather. I used to go out to the garage to smoke - just to love him. The a$$hole made sure if the dog moved the ladder would drop on him. Any time the dog had the chance, which was rarely, he would run.....they would invariably catch him and kick the shiest out of him. I felt worse for him tbph for chaining him to the ladder in the garage than I did for the beatings.

She was my business partner. I had a key to her house. I took the dog one day. I said I took her for a walk and she accidentally got away. Never to be seen (by them) again. She wouldn't have gotten beaten for running away if they hadn't neglected her so. Not sure if you see what I am getting to here.

Words I need to take to heart I think....

Yes. She needs you.....
:hug::hug::hug:

 

[shimmerz]

How DO we get over the phobia of being an embodied self? I really struggle with this.

I think by accepting that whatever our body does, it is okay. I feel as if, by refusing to accept that our body is a channel for our emotions to be expressed, that it betrays us. Just as we are betraying our body by refusing to release our emotions. Tit for tat. Again, jmho.

 

[Eleanor]

I think I get your point. The beating was just the icing on the cake. The real abuse was the neglect. Even if they hadn't beaten him, even if they had left him in a cool place where nothing would fall on him, it still wouldn't have been an ok life. It still would have been abuse of the dog. :sour:

I was reading neuropsychology articles this afternoon and was thinking about PLAY - one of the basic emotional response systems. I think I have (or my ANP) has a serious PLAY deficit. I have like, two EP's that PLAY. Neither of them show up with my daughter. Isn't that sad?:cry::cry: CARE, does. But CARE without PLAY is... not good enough I'm afraid. One of the PLAY EP's is seriously intellectual. I play with ideas a lot, my classes are fun. Serious intellectual fun, but fun none the less.:bookworm::alien: There is a teenage splinter (who is totally in love with my H's ANP and Self, and majorly traumatized by one of his EP's) who has gone underground for some time. She is peeking her nose out a tiny bit now that we haven't seen the PANIC EP of my H for a while. I have an angry EP who seems to be up a lot lately. Not so keen on her, but will try to be friendlier.:cautious:

 

[shimmerz]

Really????? @Eleanor, you can't use this :cautious: EPicon when you are supposed to be like this :).
Not this:O_o:
Not this :mad:
Not this :devilish:
Maybe this :singing:

I bet you have one of these too! :cool:

I have a serious (pardon the pun) play deficiency too. I can do it but it has to be with someone who has an over abundance of fun genes in them. Me on my own? Nope. Not gonna happen. :rolleyes:

 

[greenleaf]

Curious... How long has it taken folk to figure out their AP and EP parts? @Eleanor it sounds like you have a detailed understanding of this now which must be very helpful! I only started reading about these in the last 1 to 2 years. I saw some articles dated mid 2000s.

 

[Hope4Now]

I dunno, @shimmerz, you're doing some pretty decent playing with emoticons:D!

I have parts that LOVE to play...My ANP(s)/other EPs (?) don't allow it to happen very often. I'm always surprised at how good I feel when I do (until after when I start undermining myself:confused:. The world doesn't end when we're silly or doing something just because it's fun...not everything has to have a great purpose...

I think the physical self is the dissociated self. So I think it is about getting to the physical manifestation (after we have a sense of what we are dissociating about) before we deal with the emotional piece, which I believe will come up naturally. I think it is always body first (as we are born first to connect with our bodies) and then our emotional self. The two together imho make up dissociation. Merge them and I believe (just my thoughts) integration can happen.

Ah. I get it. Thanks.

It apparently works. They, like me, just need to know that someone gives a :poop:. You know, like when I get so angry at people for dismissing how I feel when I faint in front of them or when I am in hospital and people are taunting me? That is exactly what I used to do to my EP's. The proverbial buck, stops here.

This sounds so healthy. You've got your EPs to like you/trust you? How did you do that and get it to stick? I seem to manage it for brief moments, then the war starts again :banghead:. Did you just decide? I love that you're making the buck stop...

 

[Hope4Now]

But somehow, just regular old emotional neglect where no one is actually mean to you... seems like it doesn't count. Intellectually I can see how this is pure bunk. But there is part of me that still seriously does not "get it."

@Eleanor, that part needs you to hang out with her and explain it so s/he gets it. Because it so does count. Really.

I think I have (or my ANP) has a serious PLAY deficit. I have like, two EP's that PLAY. Neither of them show up with my daughter. Isn't that sad?:cry::cry: CARE, does. But CARE without PLAY is... not good enough I'm afraid.

So interesting...the care without play. I had mostly this with my kids too. I don't know why. Always felt like I SHOULD play but just couldn't do much more than play along. I think that perhaps what happened fairly early on is that I would play and then blend up with a child part too much...then the real live child I was playing with would somehow suss that something was different and demand my attention as Mom, so the child part had to go away. So mostly the child parts gave up. Every once in a while though, something would open up and it was always wonderful. Like I could be my mom part and a little kid part at the same time. One time I took my son and daughter out in a rainstorm in the summer and we all went puddle jumping all the way to the beach.

Serious intellectual fun, but fun none the less.:bookworm::alien:

:laugh: I love this! Not too many of us would pair "intellectual" with "fun" but I do too.

 

[Hope4Now]

How long has it taken folk to figure out their AP and EP parts?

:confused::wtf::woot::wideeyed: I'm still working on it. Every time I figure it out, I either forget, or I realize I was wrong...it was just a part believing it had it all figured out :banghead:.

 

[Eleanor]

How long has it taken folk to figure out their AP and EP parts? [DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/11410/"]@Eleanor[/DLMURL] it sounds like you have a detailed understanding of this now which must be very helpful! I

My T and I have worked with "inner children" or "Stuck bits" for a long time....Couple years at least? The Structural Dissociation model I got last fall, thanks to @Pencil. The emotion model was early last fall... doing work on theories of emotion...I "rediscovered" Panksepp, whom I had dismissed as an undergrad doing research on philosophy of emotion, because he said PLAY was an emotion and I thought that was BS. But the joke is on me. He's right. I was wrong. He's got a hook into the basic structure of emotion and thus also cognition. It is a great model... things fall into place... Plus it maps the biology. Well, other way round.

It was learning to tell the difference between FEAR and PANIC (anxiety states) that has been super helpful to me in my relationship. For me personally understanding the splits and the nature of differential (not fully integrated) consciousnesses made my experience of life make SO MUCH MORE SENSE.