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Structural Dissociation?

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My T said that anti-psychotics, since I wasn't psychotic, would make me potentially psychotic.
Not true. Might have been an attempt at explaining something, though I cannot for the life of me think of what. There are just different mechanisms to the drugs, but 'anti-psychotic' and 'mood stabilizer' and 'anti-depressant' are just three big columns, and often the drugs are in more than one. Seroquel in low doses is an adjunct anti-depressant (meaning, amplifies and complements the effects of another drug being taken in higher doses) specifically used to help take the edge off 'spikes' of different varieties. Seroquel in high doses is used to manage schizophrenia and some types of bi-polar and is strong like a hammer. (and bear in mind, I am not a doctor, just a person who takes and has taken a lot of drugs and freaked out the first time I was prescribed an anti-psychotic...)

Low does seroquel can be really helpful. It can also make slow metabolizers feel like a zombie. But it's easy on, easy off, especially if your doc knows what they are doing and starts you really low.
 
I have a tough time knowing whether they are or not. That's actually supposed to be what the seroquel can help with...cutting down the inner chaos enough for me to be present to be able to listen to what my parts are saying.
Oh, I am so so so not a doctor - take this with a grain of salt - but having taken many drugs....if you start really low, everyone should have a chance to observe what's going on. And with your husband to watch you, it sounds like a safe situation, actually. You definitely don't want to carry additional anxiety into the situation, because it might mess with perception of effect.
 
Sorry, this is kind of scattershot..

My take is that ANP are typically identified with RAGE or FEAR emotional circuitry...

RAGE based ANP would be variations of control, manipulation, perfection, defense, aggression, blame (self or other), keeping active/busy, etc.

FEAR based ANP would be variations of avoidance, conflict averse, people pleasing, rescuing others, prevention, anxiety, over thinking, isolation, etc

My take on it is a bit different.

I make the distinction between primary, secondary and tertiary emotions. Primary emotions are "gut reactions" and the evolutionarily basic behaviors that they result in. RAGE and fighting, FEAR and fleeing or freezing, PANIC and crying, PLAY and laughter, CARE and nurturing behavior, etc. Secondary emotions are the mixtures (the integrated versions) of the basic emotions AND the conditioned forms of them, and tertiary emotions are ones that are essentially dependent on a particular cognitive model of the world to work at all (guilt, perfectionism, etc.)

I would put most forms of anxiety (based on the behaviors associated with it, whining, scanning etc) in the PANIC box. FEAR by contrast tends to focus on a perceived threat in the environment, pumps some adrenaline (mostly to the legs) and decreases pain sensitivity (the better to run away). RAGE is very analgesic (shuts down pain responses) and pushes a lot of adrenaline and floods the arms and head with blood - the better to fight you with.

Blame and guilt are tertiary emotions, on my understanding, because they don't make any sense without a fully developed and internalized normative model of the world, aka, if you don't have some idea of how the world ought to be, blame and guilt don't make any sense. The deer doesn't blame the wolf. The wolf doesn't feel guilty about the deer.

The basic emotional response systems's primary job is to keep us alive and in homeostasis. As such, SEEKING is actually kind of the 'uber" system, it gets integrated very very early with other systems. So PANIC defaults to behavior that would keep a young helpless creature safe until help arrives (freeze, cry) and when it integrates even a very little with SEEKING it looks for home/safety. One might understand learned helplessness as the excitation of the SEEKING response in particular situations.

FEAR and RAGE and PANIC are all negatively valenced emotions, by which I mean that other things being equal all creatures are motivated primarily to get them to TURN OFF. So while I think there are some people whose ANP's are built out of ANGER, I think they are a rather special case - where ANGER has gotten conditioned in such a way that it is linked with a kind of pleasure. Some abusers undoubtedly fall within this category, but most I suspect are more pitiful specimens acting reactively when in their EP's. And they don't have any investment in getting better. For whatever reason.

But anyhow, because ANP's are by definition the most functional parts of the person, they are generally organized around SEEKING (whose job it is to get the necessary resources for life, and avoid the bad stuff) often integrating significant PLAY and CARE elements. Busy-ness seems to me much more a SEEKING kind of behavioral outcome as is overthinking.

It is the EP's who tend to be based on FEAR (avoident, isolating, etc.) PANIC (anxiety, ingratiating, clingy) and RAGE (aggressive, entitled, rejecting).

Manipulation, controlling, rescuing etc. are patterns that operate at a higher level of learned behavior - secondary emotional systems. And the confusing thing about this constellation to me is how closely related, rescuing, controlling, manipulation, dependence, victim-thinking, revenge all are. They all seem to be a mish mosh of PANIC (desire for attachment) FEAR (perception of threat) ANGER (reaction to threat) and CARE (protection of others.) without a clear object in mind. In other words, these kinds of patterns seem based on a fundamental error in the model of reality.

Each of these systems is conscious, and they don't start out integrated. Integration is an achievement of development. Calibration of the emotional responses to the environment (via conditioning) is another task of development. When a system can't calibrate (gets stuck ON) or can't integrate because it has not been activated at a low enough level or at the same time as the other systems. It is all about making connections/building relationships between the systems. The more integrated one system is with another, the more unified their consciousnesses become. Ideally, they all get integrated and there are no discontinuities. This is an ideal because the more integrated the systems are, the more flexible are their responses to the environment, so they can minimize effort and maximize return.

"Simple" PTSD is, on this model, when one of the systems (FEAR or RAGE) usually get stuck ON due to an experience that couldn't be properly processed. So when that system gets turned ON (aka triggered) the person is right back in that situation mentally. Learning can happen when triggered like this, but it is very limited and slow. If it stays like that for a long time, it takes a while to integrate it back with the rest of the system. This would explain why people with prior trauma seem more susceptible to PTSD as adults... the system is already poorly calibrated or stuck.

All of the intellectual stuff we build on top (the guilt, shame, blame etc) are, at that point, secondary to the "dysfunction" of the primary emotional response system.

To add insult to injury since memory storage is state dependent on these primary emotions, we don't have access to memories whose system is OFF at the time. And access to other systems' memories is limited by the degree to which the system is integrated with the one that is currently ON.

To the degree that we can get the bits to activate, and activate at lower and lower levels (basically to calm down - soothing lessen input like Hope and Shimmerz said) they have the opportunity to talk to each other, and integrate.

Anyhow this is how it looks to me.
 
Your protectors seem to tell you that what happened really wasn't so bad...well, yeah, it would have been bad for someone else, but not bad for you...you can handle it. ??? So that part (EP? ANP?) is very helpful...helped you survive. But it's scared to death to acknowledge how awful it all was. ????
Spot on.

Of course I could handle it. I could handle everything. I had to. What was the alternative? And no one else seemed to think it was so bad if it happened to me. In just those words, actually, "Oh it's not so bad..."

This AM I think the injured bits have just been .. in a sulk for a good long time. Shut down. On Hold. I'm getting pretty brave about Sadness and Grief... and current attachments are pretty good... well, this month anyhow. (crossing fingers)
 
Docs do not, in my experience, know much about psycho-active drugs. And as a slow metabolizer and non-standard responder myself I can report that I have met exactly one MD ever who even thinks those are "things.":bored: :eek::mad:

So when I first considered ADD meds, I looked it up all over the place and found exactly nothing that was particularly helpful.:bookworm::bookworm::watching::banghead::banghead: So I called my sober junkie friend.:whistling: He laid it out. Pointed out it was "easy on/easy off" as you said @joeylittle and I wasn't committing myself to anything. Speed is speed basically. We talked through the pharmacology and the side effects etc. Much more helpful than the docs. :tup:

Since then, "ask a druggie" has been my motto.:D:speechless: An area where experience counts more than book learning.
 
ince then, "ask a druggie" has been my motto.:D:speechless:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
You're too funny! Maybe I'll ask around next time I serve up dinner at one of the shelters. Or maybe just walk over to the boarding house across the street:hungover: as there seems to be lots of action there. "Hey...pssst...can I ask you..." Because if any of my friends are druggies, they don't talk about it and I don't know! Well, one does but I don't think he'd be very helpful.
 
I find that people who actually USE the drugs have a much more nuanced understanding of them. And people who use them and TALK to others who use them.. get a pretty solid knowledge base. I have generally found in my life that people who self-medicate are generally very fine people. Nothing ironic or sarcastic there. Just plain fact. People who medicate under doctor's supervision can be a more mixed bag, oddly enough, although everybody gets to be kind of a "gear head" after a bit, learning the ins and outs.
 
Hi. Guess what! Have to announce this here, now, because NOBODY else will get it. :):wideeyed:.
You all reading this are having the glittering opportunity to witness my bizarre internal life. :banghead::bag:?

One of my protector parts...the only part of myself that my exiled vulnerable parts actually like...kind of integrated partially tonight. What that actually means, I'm not sure, but something changed. I managed to be in SELF enough for it to happen. It has happened in little aha moments (4 of them over the past few months). I think maybe this is a penultimate step before processing SOMETHING. :nailbiting::wacky::bag::cautious::woot:. He just gave me a brief glimpse of what he is protecting before other parts zinged in and tried to derail the whole process. Not sure how "I" "feel." My BODY feels relief. A little opening up in my chest. Scared to death too, though. Some other parts are angry/?terrified. He is deeply frightened and ashamed of his inadequacy. But "I" am sort of curious too, in a guarded kind of way. Told "him" it was okay if he didn't want to fully reveal who or what he is protecting--that it is enough to have shown me what he did.

And...there were actual EMOTIONS kind of attached to this:chicken:. Not expressed fully, but all the signs (e.g., if somebody saw me I would have looked like I was having gagging sobs, but there were no tears and it was still pretty disconnected). Maybe all this pain that I thought was FEAR is actually DEEP SAD underneath. Body first, right @shimmerz?

Thanks for listening. I'm wild tonight. Everyone sleeping...even dog is snoring. I'm wanting to talk to somebody for the rest of the night.:shy:
 
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