Overcoming Self-hatred And It's Relation To Healing

[ms spock]

It is not about denial or dissociation @Junebug. It is about being with what is there.

You are thinking yourself out of it and avoiding what it is, but that is part of your process so I honour that.

You are overthinking it out of what it is, I can't explain it much better than that.

I think listening to the whole thing will give you a better grounding of what it is, but it is certainly not denying, minimising, not paying attention to, dissociating, putting down or in any way not facing what is going on. In fact it is the opposite of that.

If you do the practices regularly they grow and change and you get a bigger and deeper insight. But you are more here than less here.

Even the 3 minute breathing space done three times a day for 8 weeks makes a change. But you have to open your heart enough to let that change in. And you are pretty stuck on seeing an alcoholic as having some "truth" about how inherently bad that you are.

I don't know with your level of self hatred and self punishing stuff you might not let yourself get something that could create a bit more space in your life. I don't know how it will work for you.

But if you do more of the same you will get more of the same. But it is you that has to be with it and do it to make those changes. We can discuss it forever and nothing will change. Well I guess if we are mindful about it something might change. I guess that is why there is so much discussion between practitioners and pupils.

The thing is if sitting meditation doesn't work for you then you can do walking meditation - you can keep shifting the practices until you find one that you can do.

Also the mind will always find excuses - it is the nature of the mind to come up with excuses and it is the nature of the mind to wander and be busy. It is what it is.

 

[ms spock]

I guess another way of looking at it is if beating yourself up really worked then none of us would be on this forum. If ruminating and obsessively going around in depressive thought worked then none of us would be on the forum.

You are confusing giving up obsessive ruminations with not thinking at all @Junebug.

 

[ms spock]

Numbing out is not what it is either - it is having a curious yet kind attention to the thoughts. You don't numb out, that is not the practice of it either.

And it is not being indecisive or floating through life either - these are you mind's preconceived ideas of meditation and mindfulness. But what your mind thinks and what you think is not what it is. I can't really explain it. Maybe seek a teacher or a group to practice with. What I am doing with mindfulness and meditation might not be the way or even useful to you.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thanks for your help @Ms Spock . To be honest I don't think I'm spending my time going round with ruminating thoughts, but maybe they're just below the surface as he said. There's just too much going on in the present to do that. I don't base what I think only on that sister's opinion. I shouldn't have vented.

But I do do walking meditation, hard for now as it is very cold but we are headed towards spring.

Thank you. :hug:

 

[ms spock]

It is always just my interpretation @Junebug, but I will continue to discuss it if you want to, if you have had enough for now, that is okay too.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Ms Spock (PS your avatar is sweet. :) ).

Well everyone is different of course, but I think the self-hatred per se (in my case) has less to do with depressive ruminating thoughts. At least, I equate depression with lack of energy, being down, circular thinking, sadness etc. Whereas (the) self-hatred is more animated (more akin to self-harm), no ruminative thoughts, etc. Who knows?

To be honest at this point I'm tired of wondering who/what/where is real, who's telling the truth, who cares or doesn't, whether I'm found to be deserving of care or not, etc. All those thoughts are ruminative & unknown in answer (just as he said), & I have no interest flogging a dead horse.

In some respects depressive thoughts require a self-worth or expectation that I don't identify with.

If that makes sense. :rolleyes:

Hugs for you @Ms Spock , thank you. :hug: :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

But if you do more of the same you will get more of the same. But it is you that has to be with it and do it to make those changes. We can discuss it forever and nothing will change. Well I guess if we are mindful about it something might change. I guess that is why there is so much discussion between practitioners and pupils.

Hi @Ms Spock ,just meant to say, I guess it doesn't appear so, but I rarely do more of the same or 'change nothing', as it were. I add or change constantly, which makes me frustrated when it doesn't culminate in changes I want. But perhaps the key is 'what' or 'how' I change could be more effective. Or perhaps I will accomplish only so much.

I guess too what comes in to play is what is most important to us in life, or what or how we feel has a bearing. For example, I do not take for granted anyone being here tomorrow, hopefully, but I live with that knowledge. Can I live or produce within that framework, just for today? Though I recognize I have limitations. Working on the limitations might reduce them.

There is that saying in AA, 'none of us are that important'. Things become as big as I allow them to be (or not). The key (for me) is working on trust etc, it's not enough to forgive stuff or not resent it, but really let it go but if possible remain un-jaded.

I was thinking, it is strange: my one grandfather could never get sober, but became a wonderful man. My aunt got sober, but could never forgive herself. My co-worker could never use her body weight to re-position clients, even the instructors said (conceded) her arms were too strong after 30 years of work in a personal care home & that couldn't be changed (I do the same).

I guess we all have to just try the best we can.

I think sometimes things are very complex to understand in our hearts & within our beliefs, but very simple to choose to adopt in our actions if we find the strength or means to.

 

[ms spock]

I guess I am learning that the attitude that you do it with has an effect @Junebug. In Mindfulness, you don't do it from a position of fixing you do it from a place of kindness, attentiveness, curious awareness, and from a being place and not a doing place. There are moments when I let go of the self hatred and see that it is just the distorted thoughts and feelings. I am right at the beginning of this so there is much I don't know. I suspect that you don't give yourself credit for what you do do, but there are many people further along the track on this forum who are better at resilience and self care and self love.

 

[Tinyflame]

..but there are many people further along the track on this forum who are better at resilience and self care and self love.

I know there are @Ms Spock. And I have been raised to 'do' or find solutions, not 'be' or feel or think. I am in no way not acknowledging they can have the right game plan & try to learn from them.

I do get the 'neglect' concept; I guess just affording time to 'be' or overcome feelings of having no entitlement to ask things or just 'do' what doesn't produce immediate material effects is a necessary requisite first step.

Also, I don't seem to have the ability to find the words that describe or express the issues my 'mind' seem to have with self-care or affirmations or stuff, I seem to end up reacting badly to them (unintentionally). So frankly I am one of those people who has to tread lightly in the exposure to 'just feeling' & kindly observing what is there. Easier said than done.

 

[ms spock]

And I have been raised to 'do' or find solutions, not 'be' or feel or think.

Me too, I really get this.