Lucycat
Sponsor
Sorry! That will teach me to concentrate more.
So MDMA maybe ecstasy but Ecstasy may not be MDMA. Now I get it!
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Mdma Therapy. Experiences? Opinions?
- Post starter anonymous
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So MDMA maybe ecstasy but Ecstasy may not be MDMA. Now I get it!
No @anthony. I don't recall saying in this post that I advocate for unsupervised use. This is still an illegal drug and therapists like the one mentioned by the OP believe so strongly in its potential to help their clients that they are ignoring the laws.
I am advocating for whatever studies are necessary to allow this drug to be used for therapeutic use. I am asking that these studies be done in a timely manner. I am suggesting that in order for this to happen that we educate ourselves and advocate for MAPS, if during our fact finding we feel there may be potential therapeutic use for this drug.
I am saying that people need to be aware of this modality and educate themselves because it has a great potential to enhance quality in life. I am saying that I know that MAPS has been working for 3 decades to bring to public awareness, that this drug may do just that. I am saying that I believe from my research that this drug has not been given a fair shake at being tested. I am saying that therapists can't treat people because the government is (for whatever reason) hindering the right for this drug to be properly tested. It is a Schedule 1 drug because the government is making it next to impossible for MAPS to do the studies that are required to un-schedule it. Why?
I am asking that we be allowed to talk about it here without conversations being shut down because they are controversial, that people not get hysterical about it, and based on clear factual information (which is not easy to find when people are still confused as to the difference between MDMA and Ecstacy), decide for themselves whether they want to support MAPS in their commitment to study its efficacy and roll it out (in a timely manner) to the general populace without fear of retribution for either the therapist or the client. That's it.
If you had taken the sentence prior in your quote Anthony it would have been in proper context. I say right in my posting that I am advocating for therapists.
Clearly I am not advocating that entire families be wiped out because people are randomly taking the drug and killing families in car crashes. This is the type of talk that fans the fires in hysterical thinking when it comes to this topic.
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This sounds promising but scary to me as a supporter whose loved one is a recovering alcoholic with ten years' sobriety. To Anonymous: I wish you nothing but success if you choose to use this with your T. With what I've learned about ptsd, I think I can understand the desperation of people who think this might really help but can't get it. I wish all of you who choose this and are able to get it only the best.
I'm wondering: Does anyone know how it might affect an alcoholic? My "sufferer" always told me he knew he had a highly addictive personality (he's also been addicted to prescription painkillers), and I'd be afraid to even suggest this to him for fear it could be addictive, even if its benefits to non-addicts could be great. I'm just asking now because I'm interested in learning more about this thing I've never heard of, and for future reference if the subject ever comes up for him.
I'm wondering: Does anyone know how it might affect an alcoholic? My "sufferer" always told me he knew he had a highly addictive personality (he's also been addicted to prescription painkillers), and I'd be afraid to even suggest this to him for fear it could be addictive, even if its benefits to non-addicts could be great. I'm just asking now because I'm interested in learning more about this thing I've never heard of, and for future reference if the subject ever comes up for him.
joeylittle
Sponsor
I just thought some might find this interesting:
list of MDMA clinical trials
It's a simple search - so a few in there aren't about PTSD or anything mental-health related - but the majority are. You can click on the "map" tab to see how they are distributed globally.
list of MDMA clinical trials
It's a simple search - so a few in there aren't about PTSD or anything mental-health related - but the majority are. You can click on the "map" tab to see how they are distributed globally.
D
Deleted member 17790
Go for it definitely - I have been following the MDMA trials - they are having huge success with curing PTSD. Amazing results. Shame it's not available down under to non vets
Still survivin
New Here
I have lots of experience with MDMA in a recreational setting & honestly if I could live every day on it I would & I truly believe I would function much better & stand a chance at a normal life. It dampens the receptors for negative emotions at the rear base of the brain & allows u to speak about trauma rationally without being overwhelmed by the onslaught of emotions that usually accompany re-living trauma. Please do keep us updated as this therapy is something I believe is very productive to recovery. There are quite a few case studies online & it does seem like a great treatment
- Post starter
- #31
Could you imagine talking with your T and feeling no fear whatsoever? Being able to talk about everything that hurts, even things you couldn't possibly bear to acknowledge? Not only being able to, but actually not hating it? And having real, lasting symptom reduction as a result? I did just that a few weeks ago in my first therapy session assisted by MDMA.
@anthony is absolutely correct. No special MDMA training was really required of my T. The drug is not what you think it is. I cannot think of a pharmaceutical I could compare it to. It is precise in its action to eliminate fear. It did very little else to me. I was not "drugged up." I was completely lucid at every moment. However, that elimination of fear is so monumental, you can barely hope to imagine it.
THE SESSION
We talked about things that I thought I wouldn't want to. We talked about things I had tried to ignore, to forget. So many deep, dark things. I knew they needed to get them out, and I simply did it. But the idea is not simply to have a few hours of fearlessness. I wanted lasting results.
AFTER THE SESSION
Today, every one of my massively debilitating psychological symptoms is gone. Not every last symptom is gone, but every remaining symptom is very manageable now. I am able to engage in complex self-care, whereas I could manage very little self-care prior.
I am not falling into flashbacks nor dissociation. My episodes of flashbacks and dissociation were intense, occurring many times a day. Now, they are distant and vague, occur maybe a couple times a week and when they do happen, somehow I ground myself effortlessly, without words, in just a moment. Can you imagine?
I have not had one nightmare, either. I have other symptoms, many of which are greatly reduced, but those were some of the really distressing ones.
I cannot say enough good! I had high expectations, but even they were exceeded. Furthermore, this is just the first of three sessions. I have more work to be done! :)
The few side effects I experienced during the session were mild (faster heart rate, tendency to tighten jaw muscles) and I already knew to expect them. I had read that the drug might cause mild depression or something like unhealthy happiness for a couple days after, but I did not experience either of these in the slightest. Judging from my experience, I suspect these effects do not come with pure MDMA.
I am also presented with residual real problems that no amount of mental development can solve. These include having few to no friends, having a questionable living situation and other mistakes I made due to symptoms.
One of the most interesting things is that I learned a lot about others' emotions and mental states. I am still learning new things every day. I observe something and it just clicks. I have questions, but I know what questions to ask. The emotional learning is like a whole new body of knowledge for me. Instead of being near universally fearful of others, I am learning a whole new palate of emotions.
I can still get bothered by people, but it doesn't control me. I had a half a day where I isolated in response to a stressor, but I recovered. That isolation is easily the biggest symptom I've had since the session.
QUESTIONS
Although I haven't covered everything, I just wanted to type all this up. I am willing to share anything I know, and I'm open to questions.
Cheers.
@anthony is absolutely correct. No special MDMA training was really required of my T. The drug is not what you think it is. I cannot think of a pharmaceutical I could compare it to. It is precise in its action to eliminate fear. It did very little else to me. I was not "drugged up." I was completely lucid at every moment. However, that elimination of fear is so monumental, you can barely hope to imagine it.
THE SESSION
We talked about things that I thought I wouldn't want to. We talked about things I had tried to ignore, to forget. So many deep, dark things. I knew they needed to get them out, and I simply did it. But the idea is not simply to have a few hours of fearlessness. I wanted lasting results.
AFTER THE SESSION
Today, every one of my massively debilitating psychological symptoms is gone. Not every last symptom is gone, but every remaining symptom is very manageable now. I am able to engage in complex self-care, whereas I could manage very little self-care prior.
I am not falling into flashbacks nor dissociation. My episodes of flashbacks and dissociation were intense, occurring many times a day. Now, they are distant and vague, occur maybe a couple times a week and when they do happen, somehow I ground myself effortlessly, without words, in just a moment. Can you imagine?
I have not had one nightmare, either. I have other symptoms, many of which are greatly reduced, but those were some of the really distressing ones.
I cannot say enough good! I had high expectations, but even they were exceeded. Furthermore, this is just the first of three sessions. I have more work to be done! :)
The few side effects I experienced during the session were mild (faster heart rate, tendency to tighten jaw muscles) and I already knew to expect them. I had read that the drug might cause mild depression or something like unhealthy happiness for a couple days after, but I did not experience either of these in the slightest. Judging from my experience, I suspect these effects do not come with pure MDMA.
I am also presented with residual real problems that no amount of mental development can solve. These include having few to no friends, having a questionable living situation and other mistakes I made due to symptoms.
One of the most interesting things is that I learned a lot about others' emotions and mental states. I am still learning new things every day. I observe something and it just clicks. I have questions, but I know what questions to ask. The emotional learning is like a whole new body of knowledge for me. Instead of being near universally fearful of others, I am learning a whole new palate of emotions.
I can still get bothered by people, but it doesn't control me. I had a half a day where I isolated in response to a stressor, but I recovered. That isolation is easily the biggest symptom I've had since the session.
QUESTIONS
It's interesting to read that, because that's the complete opposite of my experience. I don't think I've read anyone say they would want the drug frequently for PTSD. It's only been a few weeks, but all the progress I made in the session, I still have. It was not temporary.
I don't know for sure. I believe that people with drug/alcohol dependence were included in the study. Many PTSD sufferers are alcoholics. MDMA does not lead to dependence, whereas alcohol definitely can. Also, while I look forward to the next session, it's not because it was fun. It wasn't. It's because I look forward to healing further.
Although I haven't covered everything, I just wanted to type all this up. I am willing to share anything I know, and I'm open to questions.
Cheers.
Friday
Sponsor
Slight correction here: 3,4 Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MethyleneDioxyMethAmphetamine - MDMA) Is as addictive as any amphetamine grouping. Meaning very.
So glad to hear you had such a great experience!
Few studies have attempted to assess MDMA dependency among users in the general population, and those that have been conducted have shown widely varying results, likely because of the different population samples and different types of measures used.
NIH
and
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is generally described as non-addictive. However, this report describes three cases in which criteria for dependence were met. A wider understanding that MDMA can be addictive in rare cases is important as very heavy use may cause lasting neuronal changes.
Karl L.R Jansen
So what is it about MDMA that might appeal to a user so strongly that they would be willing to put up with the negative aspects of frequent use?
Emotional release. MDMA is an antidepressant and anti-neurotic drug of almost unparalleled power. If you are under severe emotional strain, MDMA can provide an escape. How compelling returning to the MDMA state will be to a given person largely depends on how rotten their lives otherwise are (a common theme to drug dependency.) To a reasonably healthy, happy person the MDMA state is often a great gift; a transcendent experience to be remembered fondly as they go on with their normal lives. To somebody suffering from depression or other emotional problems, MDMA can easily become an escape; a way to run away from reality..
DEA
It is difficult to say whether they are speaking of mdma or ecstasy in these references as they use the two interchangeably, therefore the controls are next to impossible to determine.
I love the way DEA spin doctors. Depends on how rotten their lives are and then throws out a common theme to drug dependency, like our lives are rotten because we are all drug dependent idiots. This, from the DEA. MDMA can easily become an escape, a way to run away from reality. When we are looking at it from a therapeutic point of view, MDMA is actually the way to look at our reality dead on and deal with it. This information is completely out of context with therapeutic usage. This is the danger of relying on these 'studies', or lack thereof. For information on therapeutic MDMA, MAPS.org would be your best source.
83% of the subjects receiving MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in a pilot study no longer met the criteria for PTSD, and every patient who received a placebo and then went on to receive MDMA-assisted psychotherapy experienced significant and lasting improvements.
MAPS.org
Link Removed
Let's look at the commonality here. HEAVY mdma (or ecstasy) use leads to potential addiction (notice they don't say consistent). As Anthony suggested, we are speaking about therapeutic usage and very rare consumption. According to studies, therapeutic use, does not lead to mdma addiction.
To be honest, if I eat the wrong foods too often I get addicted to those. Please people, open your minds. Stop relating ecstasy recreational use with MDMA therapy usage. The two are entirely different animals. Help us help each other gain access to this therapy.
NIH
and
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is generally described as non-addictive. However, this report describes three cases in which criteria for dependence were met. A wider understanding that MDMA can be addictive in rare cases is important as very heavy use may cause lasting neuronal changes.
Karl L.R Jansen
So what is it about MDMA that might appeal to a user so strongly that they would be willing to put up with the negative aspects of frequent use?
Emotional release. MDMA is an antidepressant and anti-neurotic drug of almost unparalleled power. If you are under severe emotional strain, MDMA can provide an escape. How compelling returning to the MDMA state will be to a given person largely depends on how rotten their lives otherwise are (a common theme to drug dependency.) To a reasonably healthy, happy person the MDMA state is often a great gift; a transcendent experience to be remembered fondly as they go on with their normal lives. To somebody suffering from depression or other emotional problems, MDMA can easily become an escape; a way to run away from reality..
DEA
It is difficult to say whether they are speaking of mdma or ecstasy in these references as they use the two interchangeably, therefore the controls are next to impossible to determine.
I love the way DEA spin doctors. Depends on how rotten their lives are and then throws out a common theme to drug dependency, like our lives are rotten because we are all drug dependent idiots. This, from the DEA. MDMA can easily become an escape, a way to run away from reality. When we are looking at it from a therapeutic point of view, MDMA is actually the way to look at our reality dead on and deal with it. This information is completely out of context with therapeutic usage. This is the danger of relying on these 'studies', or lack thereof. For information on therapeutic MDMA, MAPS.org would be your best source.
83% of the subjects receiving MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in a pilot study no longer met the criteria for PTSD, and every patient who received a placebo and then went on to receive MDMA-assisted psychotherapy experienced significant and lasting improvements.
MAPS.org
Link Removed
Let's look at the commonality here. HEAVY mdma (or ecstasy) use leads to potential addiction (notice they don't say consistent). As Anthony suggested, we are speaking about therapeutic usage and very rare consumption. According to studies, therapeutic use, does not lead to mdma addiction.
To be honest, if I eat the wrong foods too often I get addicted to those. Please people, open your minds. Stop relating ecstasy recreational use with MDMA therapy usage. The two are entirely different animals. Help us help each other gain access to this therapy.
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Page 22 (7.4 Abuse Potential in Humans) of the MAPS Investigative Brochure at this link
http://www.maps.org/research-archive/mdma/MDMA_FINAL _IB-edition-7_1Aug13.pdf
addresses the known abuse potential after therapeutic MDMA treatment.
http://www.maps.org/research-archive/mdma/MDMA_FINAL _IB-edition-7_1Aug13.pdf
addresses the known abuse potential after therapeutic MDMA treatment.
Saria
Silver Member
It's so great to read about how much improvement you're experiencing after one session! That's just amazing! I hope this kind of treatment will be available as more research is done that confirms the efficacy of the approach. I have some experiences with recreational use of MDMA myself, and although I'm aware of the differences in a therapeutic setting, I can imagine how it makes it way easier to talk about things and feeling we normally avoid. I would definetely try it myself if I had the opportunity. Did you experience any negative effects after the sesson, like some sort of comedown?
Friday
Sponsor
Just because a person only smokes 6 cigarettes does not mean the cigarettes themselves are not addictive.
Amphetamines are addictive. Simple fact. Saying otherwise is incorrect.
Methylenedioxyamphetamine, & Methylenedioxymethamphetamine are both in an amphetamine group
In no way am I equating recreational & therapeutic use at any time in my statement, & to the best of my knowledge, I never have. In fact I've gone to repeated length to explain the difference between MDA, MDMA, & Ecstasy. There was no judgement call at all correcting what may well have been a mistaken phrasing. The vast majority of the medications used to treat PTSD are both scheduled, and highly addictive. The likelihood of becoming dependent on them has a lot of different factors involved, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. The likelihood of becoming addicted to MDMA (or cigarettes, or benzos) when used 6 times over a period of months, meanwhile? Slim at best. Which is why I suspected mistaken phrasing. But they are all still addictive.
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