Shame in perpetuity

[Kintsugi]

I seem to experience shame in perpetuity.

I have three main categories of self harm: planned relief/gratification, impulsive relief/gratification, and shame-based impulsive self-punishment. These days, pretty much since I started therapy again about a month and a half ago, impulsive shame-based self-harm has been chief, I'd say, in my symptoms.

Shame has always been a massive issue for me. Literally always. My first memories of close calls with impulsive self-harm were wanting to stab myself over any misstep, and occasionally I would circumstantially have a chopping knife in my hand when getting this impulse.

Anyway, I don't know how to mitigate this symptom. I feel shame over almost everything. I wish I could keep my mouth entirely shut around people, because no matter what I say to anyone else, I can find fault in it, even (especially?) the things I say to people who are extremely close to me. It's painful. It wants to eat me alive. It's like living with stocks around my arms and neck--heavy, burdensome, restrictive.

I've gotten a bit better at letting go of shame. I feel a sharp pang of shame over something I said or did, and I try to logic myself out of it. X close friend wouldn't think terrible things of me for saying Y. A trivial person in my life will never remember I said B.

Learning greater self-acceptance has helped, but not as much as I might've thought, or maybe I just don't have enough of it yet.

Does anyone else experience shame in perpetuity? How do you let go of irrational feelings of shame? Is there anyone out there who used to be constantly plagued by shame and now has days where there's no (irrational) shame at all?

 

[Ghostybear73]

Hey Simon,

Sorry you are having this problem. I have no ingenious advise to give, but I can say you are not alone. I'm here for you if you ever want to pm.

Ghosty :hug:s

 

[sun seeker]

I don't know how to mitigate this symptom. I feel shame over almost everything. I wish I could keep my mouth entirely shut around people, because no matter what I say to anyone else, I can find fault in it, even (especially?) the things I say to people who are extremely close to me. It's painful. It wants to eat me alive. It's like living with stocks around my arms and neck--heavy, burdensome, restrictive.

I could have written this myself. Sorry I haven't found the way out yet. If I do, I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[Go Hungry]

.

I've gotten a bit better at letting go of shame. I feel a sharp pang of shame over something I said or did, and I try to logic myself out of it. X close friend wouldn't think terrible things of me for saying Y. A trivial person in my life will never remember I said B.

Learning greater self-acceptance has helped, but not as much as I might've thought, or maybe I just don't have enough of it yet.

Does anyone else experience shame in perpetuity? How do you let go of irrational feelings of shame? Is there anyone out there who used to be constantly plagued by shame and now has days where there's no (irrational) shame at all?

I get this. I feel horrid shame over things that happened 10 or even 20 years ago. Just little moments will crop up in my memory, and I so hate myself for them. Little mistakes, even tiny, completely inconsequential ones, will just burn me to the core. Things that I didn't even notice I was doing wrong at the time. Things that may not even be wrong at all. I think a lot of it is that we want to punish ourselves for not being perfect, because for some idiot reason we expect perfection from ourselves. But that's the thing.. there is no perfect. Perfection is an artificial construct of the mind, that for most purposes, just seems to be an excuse that people.. I mean everyone on the planet... uses for not trying. I know I do.

I expect perfection of myself, because I'm always imagining some bullshit stereotype of what a perfect person is. I bash myself for things that I would never bash another for. Especially for what I consider 'social' self-harm. There were times when I would do something, that even at the time seemed like an utterly stupid idea, but I did it out of sheer contrariness. Contrariness against myself, when I knew that it would have negative effects. I utterly hate myself for those mistakes. Even more than massive blunders that I made, because at least in those cases I was making an honest mistake.

Sometimes the only solace I can find is in remembering that most people are overwhelmingly concerned with their own troubles, just like we are. They are wrestling with their own imperfections, being too hard on themselves, doing everything except paying attention to others. So a lot of people really just don't know that the things that eat us up have even happened. And I also keep this in mind.

[GALLERY=media, 1547]Hnbck by Go Hungry posted Apr 19, 2015 at 11:42 AM[/GALLERY]

 

[Kintsugi]

I was thinking today that I also have a lot of guilt, but guilt is a different feeling altogether. Majorly, my everyday guilt is a byproduct of avoidance, isolation, and some general dissociative/memory symptoms. It is not a symptom. Shame, I'd say shame is its own symptom.

The interesting thing to me in contrasting guilt with shame is that guilt for me sounds like, "I shouldn't have done X," or "I should have done Y," or maybe "I should have done X, but I did Y, and I wish I could change it.

Shame? Shame takes that shit to a whole different level. Shame says, "I shouldn't have done X. Why do I always do this? Anyone with half a brain would have done Y. What the hell is wrong with me?" And this diatribe just seems to keep going, a volley of personal attacks launched at myself ad infinitum.

And it does seem to be ad infinitum. I wish positive thoughts were as magnetized to my drifting mind as shameful ones. Once one comes up, it seems to bring all its friends. And it's like @Go Hungry mentioned; some of these friends are new, some extremely old, some ridiculously random and far-fetched from both time and space.

It's particularly impossible because I cannot shut up. I talk for everything, always have. Happy, nervous, depressed, sick, energetic...It's probably why people think I'm very good at speaking. And sure, eloquence is great, but it just never stops. It's like a young adult fairytale I read about two girls--one was cursed to spill insects from her mouth when she spoke, the other's voice produced precious gems. The latter girl's throat hurt, she drew unwanted and greedy attention, and people blamed her when she spat out an opal instead of a diamond, whereas the former girl was able to chase off her adversaries by humming a line of vicious wasps. I want to be the former girl, but I am the latter, and too many opals come out when people are expecting diamonds, and whether or not anyone notices, I whip myself to no end over these underachievements of social interaction.

 

[Whirlwind]

How do you let go of irrational feelings of shame? Is there anyone out there who used to be constantly plagued by shame and now has days where there's no (irrational) shame at all?

I'm not free of it, but much better when it comes to shame. I finally shared my worst with a T and came to learn how ancient programming was affecting me. Bear with me this led into me reading and coming to see perfection this unapologetic need to internally chastise myself for seemingly everything. Yeah, I get that no one is perfect, I don't expect it of others, I can view it logically as well but it didn't change anything.

However, slowly splicing and dicing my internal dialogue and coming to view it as a mechanism of "self hate" - that concept crystallized for me. Self hate manifesting as workaholism/perfection/repetitive internal analysis, etc. Self hate - ultimately a construct of my early abuse.

That seems to have had the biggest impact for releasing my shame and resultant behavior has improved in parallel.

Take good care, Whirlwind

 

[ms spock]

Is there anyone out there who used to be constantly plagued by shame and now has days where there's no (irrational) shame at all?

Thank you so much for this thread. Yes this is me now. I didn't even realise until I read your post yesterday!

 

[Kintsugi]

(((((@Ms Spock))))) I hope I can be like that.

 

[ms spock]

((((Simply Simon)))) I am sure you will get there - it just took me an awfully long time.

You are talking about it - I remember I did a few threads on self hatred and the like on this forum.

I truly forgot that it was such a day in and day out problem for years and years - it hasn't been long that I have been out of it, but enough that I forgot? Tis truly amazing!

I never thought it would be me.

 

[Friday]

Does anyone else experience shame in perpetuity? How do you let go of irrational feelings of shame?

Yes... But my shame is entirely rational. Well, at least as far as I know. It's bundled part and parcel with my guilt & my regret.

The shame that isn't mine? I try very hard to never blame myself for the evils others do. I have enough of my own that's honestly mine, without shouldering theirs, too.

 

[Kintsugi]

I wanted to revive this thread because I have learned that I do not experience shame in perpetuity. I experience shame any time I am not fully engaged or stimulated in something else. If I am not wholly engaged in something, it comes to me, and the impulses of self harm follow. If I'm listening to an episode of This American Life, and I'm loving it, I can just concentrate on that. If I am writing something, I am wholly engaged. If I am reading something I love, I am just completely immersed.

But if I'm listening to music I'm not fully engaged with, or if I'm listening to NPR and I'm not that interested, my mind sinks away, and shame finds it, and the next thing I know, I'm either arguing out loud with my feelings of "You must be punished" or I am trying not to injure myself. Sometimes I just have a wandering, zoned-out state of mind, and the next thing I know I've smacked myself across the face out of seemingly nowhere.

This cannot be healthy. Absolute constant stimulation is not always possible if I want to function. Do I need to spend the rest of my life searching for interesting, engaging content so that I can do chores in peace? Commute in peace?

The worst part is when I'm working. I can't always have my mind fully busy while I work. I wind up trying hard not to talk to myself while I'm cooking for my clients or while I'm dusting etc.

On the other hand, when I am interacting directly with my clients, there's a freedom to it. I work with people who functionally do not talk right now, and they're excellent at keeping my crazy habits under wraps. :) (One of my favorite things to do with some clients is to give them a piece of candy out of my bag and say, "Shhh. Don't tell!" which they giggle at, or nod vigorously as they eat the chocolate. :D)

 

[joeylittle]

Absolute constant stimulation is not always possible if I want to function.

Your post is really resonating with me. I desperately seek out things that can be fully absorbing. It's been tough, because the most effective ones for me are physically challenging as well as mentally challenging - but since an accident and surgery I have not been able to be nearly as mobile.

Something that I have been learning, though, is that there's a mindfulness piece of all this. I can actually get fully absorbed in one thing at a time, no matter what the thing, if I work to put my attention on it. I think I've done this my whole life, though - I am one of those people that cannot have music on as a secondary thing, even when I'm driving.

But I have learned how to put my full attention on doing dishes, straightening up the apartment, playing with the cats. I can sort of do it with knitting. None of it is automatic the way I can automatically get absorbed by a particular work challenge, or the physical things I used to be able to do - but if I practice being mindful, it becomes as interesting as those things (if that makes sense).