Study Shows Taking Antidepressants In Pregnancy Associated With Raised Anxiety In 3 Year Olds

[Queen Boudica]

btw I did eat lots of fish in my first pregnancy, my eldest is allergic to it, I took fish oils in my others.

I think it is really quite a complicated picture.

 

[shimmerz]

I think it is really quite a complicated picture.

Yes, and I feel like that would add to an already depressing and stressful situation. Like a cat chasing its tail. I think I would prefer knowing that I wasn't imbibing things that may be physiologically damaging, if I could help it though.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Yes that is the best we can do. Actually I'm sure I saw a piece about reversing the genetic change with therapy today. So it might not all be irreversible change. And yes I think it makes a case that we are already compromised so we don't need to add any other factors like too much alcohol or bad diet or lack of exercise (hard when you are depressed) and avoid bad substances and unhealthy food. Plus I think the mention of fish is interesting. Good fats do seem to be coming up time and time as important for our brain formation. And I did not realise about B12 and the myelin sheath. Anti-inflammatories is another thing. We were all surprised by that article on blueberries, but if they really are as effective as antidepressants then we wouldn't have to worry about that in pregnancy (would be nice if it turns out to be the case) So there are a lot of good things we can do and actually.

 

[spookedlife]

So, the question is, are the children better off with un-medicated depressed mothers (to-be) or being anxious at 3 years old? The next research needs to compare these results with non- medicinal treatments for the depression.

It is good to see they are using decent numbers of participants in these studies.

I take your meaning, but I think the larger point is that the child could be fundamentally and permanently compromised physiologically, during gestation, by the introduction of chemicals...that's something that lasts a lifetime

 

[Friday]

Well, it is the question of pregnancy and taking antidepressants. Mothers could go onto antidepressants after pregnancy and that is fine and there is no mention that these mothers were or were not on antidepressants after pregnancy.

Soap Box Time! :D

Antepartum Depression is a hormonal depression identical to Postpartum Depression (including psychosis) with one key difference: it strikes during pregnancy.

I rarely talk about "gifts of PTSD". Snort. But here's one... I chained myself to a radiator. Knew how to do it so that I couldn't escape, since I'd been held that way once upon a time. During the worst of my antepartum psychosis I broke several bones in my hand trying to. Not to mention ripping out my fingernails on the wall, and dislocating my shoulder. That's how badly I was out of my mind wanting to die. Wrapped the keys in a condom and swallowed it. So there was no way for me to get free except waiting. Still tried. I was that out of my head. And then I chained myself again the next day. And the next.

Most of the time the suicide hours weren't so bad. I could sit on a chair and scream until my voice gave out. Wrapping my arms around it, sobbing and screaming for the need to die that hasn't been that strong since I was tortured. But I could usually force myself to ride it out... Because it would be over in a few hours. Like jumping into a pool, one moment it would just stop. Granted, it also started that way. I mistimed the start of it a few times. Shudder.

But they were every day. Every day for an average of 2-3 hours. For more than 6 months. Not ideation. Pure, unadulterated, suicidality.

And it ends the moment you give birth. There's simply no need to continue with antidepressants... Because the depression & psychosis is hormone driven. The moment you give birth? The hormone stew in your blood alters dramatically. And keeps altering. So each and every single day you feel more and more like yourself. I cannot even describe the angels singing on high. It's like being high. The first time, but every day, and each day it's better.

My OB threatened to throttle me for not telling her. LOL. Actually, she blanched white pale first, then we had a chat, then she threatened to throttle me (I love her dearly!).

Women with APD often (close enough to "usually" to almost use that word) at least attempt to kill themselves. Many succeed. Many others in psychosis (although not all progress to psychosis) stab their unborn children/themselves or attempt home or late term abortions, or assault their families, or turn to alcohol... It's a brutal, ugly, and almost never talked about condition. Fortunately, it tends to be fairly rare.

Come to find... There are meds that are safe to take during pregnancy. Unlike PPD, you can't take hormones to ease the toxic stew in your blood instead of (or in addition to) meds, because it would cause a miscarriage/abortion.

My OB offered me a tubal ligation (on the house, since I was a dirt poor college student, she'd pay the hospital fees/eat her own costs) if I wanted one. Instead, (because after my son was born I wanted 10 more ;) For real, I love kids. Maybe not 10, but not 1 and done, either. Hate being knocked up, love the end result)... We strategized how I could be pregnant in the future, without putting my own (and everyone else's lives) at risk. Clomid to shoot for multiples, then antidepressants once the depression started, then hospitalized bed rest during the psychosis if the meds weren't up to the job / needing medical monitoring. I would need some kickass insurance to cover those bills, and she helped me search out the best suited, as well as childcare, etc. Really, an amazing woman, my OB.

Because APD is no joke. Tubal ligation, or chained to a radiator no joke. It's not just feeling bummed. Without meds? It's full on psychosis. Most meds are in no way suitable to take during pregnancy.

I would need to see some hard numbers ruling out environmental & genetic predis. causes before turning to ... What? Abortion or "Try not to kill yourself, dearie." as the only option available to pregnant women in life saving need of antidepressants?

 

[Queen Boudica]

I don't think anyone is arguing that antidepressants shouldn't be available to women during pregnancy, just we need to know the effects. This research is a start. If the baby has physiological damage then it could be monitored and early intervention for anxiety offered. Very often kids with anxiety are not treated until later on and they have developed a lot of problems (my daughter is one of them). I think I have seen research to show early intervention with children with anxiety helps. So that is something to think about.

This type of early intervention should maybe be on offer for kids of depressed parents anyway maybe?

Also perhaps some antidepressants may be better than others during pregnancy?

And maybe some mothers who have low levels of depression might think cbt options would be better during pregnancy, (yes another area of research). But we need that information.

This is research, it does not give us a definite answer, no research like that can. It is probabilities and the cohort can never be perfect with mental illness sufferers, it is too variable. And as I tried to describe with my situation there are too many external factors to isolate antidepressants completely. THis reseach has made an attempt by comparing siblings. All the reseach can do is give us clues.

Thalidomide made a huge difference to pregnant mothers suffering from extreme morning sickness that could even kill them. It did not cause birth defects in most children. Now we offer alternatives because the effects were extreme. A life-time of anxiety due to physiological change is also a large burden. So if there are better antidepressants or it is not essential to take during pregnancy then wouldn't you want to know?

I was also not aware of the extreme psychosis that can be developed during pregnancy due to hormone imbalance. Is that something that PTSD sufferers should all be aware of and monitored for? I don't know. Or should research for best treatment in those circumstances be done?

More information we have the better. No-one is saying that antidepressants shouldn't be taken, just the research shows a link.

 

[Queen Boudica]

This article talking about the effects on foetus of the toxic chemicals in pregnancy due to stress. Perhaps another thread???

http://opinion.inquirer.net/52833/posttraumatic-stress-disorder-in-children#ixzz2UVTbGddq

Although there are no references in this and it is the authors opinion. Should be backed up with the references to solid research, so maybe not the best article. The mother with stress due to her job and then gives birth to an autistic child is based on what evidence? So maybe not the best example to pick. No-one knows what causes autism, although there is a genetic component I believe. so she could have been on the cards to have an autistic child anyway. And the author pointing out that he has not seen so many children diagnosed with ADHD since recently well, that could be due to better diagnostics. So come to think of it this is an example of a report that is just pure speculation based on this guys experience, with some interesting info not backed up with any references to research.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Actually I don't like that article at all. Many women have stressful jobs, they are not all giving birth to anxious babies or ADHD and autistic babies. What are we supposed to do? Go into confinement like they used to in Medieval times. And you would have to stop all stress right from the beginning of pregnancy because the critical period is early on in pregnancy. Many women have had high levels of stress, not just recently. They have been juggling careers and kids since the industrial age and before and added to it poverty. Don't think a Victorian woman, living in poverty, working in a factory all hours and supporting 10 kids with half of them dying would have had low stress levels. Why is it assumed that women today have more stress?

Think there is a good argument for looking out for anxious kids and early intervention, whatever the case to hopefully change their outcomes.

 

[ihateusernames]

This is a fascinating post! Thanks for sharing @Lizio

I had a friend that threw she and her baby in front of a train

I was thinking when I originally read this that I have read in a few places that typically new mothers who harm their babies are suffering postpartum psychosis, not ppd, and wondered similarly whether psychosis during pregnancy would even be treated with an antidepressant. Whether it's completely unrelated to depression. But @FridayJones gave some pretty good perspective on that. My Grandmother says that she has had that experience, fortunately I have not- so I didn't know how it was related to the pregnancy-related depression that I did have (and still have I guess) that was more or less manageable without medication.

Many women have had high levels of stress, not just recently. They have been juggling careers and kids since the industrial age and before and added to it poverty.

This always bothers me, too. Even fully planned and wanted babies are stressful. Everything about having a kid is stressful and I would imagine there were a whole lot more unplanned, burdensome pregnancies in the past than there are now.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Everything about having a kid is stressful

Oh God YES! But combine it with PTSD and triggered because of your own terrible childhood!!!!!!!! But actually aren't they also one of the greatest things in our lives as well (for those who choose to have kids).

Nothing comes without some kind of stress. Guess it depends on how we handle that stress and think about it (CBT), but with complex trauma and PTSD we have a larger mountain to climb and we need more scaffolding maybe, but if we educate ourselves and arm ourselves with the best tools, maybe we are going to do a better job than those who don't have our condition and remain ignorant??? It is a heavy burden. But just about everything worth having is not easy and involves stress.

 

[ihateusernames]

maybe we are going to do a better job than those who don't have our condition and remain ignorant

I sure hope that's true. Hopefully this is not just me being overly optimistic, but it seems that there are only 2 paths to take- continue the cycle or conscientiously go in the complete opposite direction, which has got to be far, far better, right?

 

[ms spock]

I take your meaning, but I think the larger point is that the child could be fundamentally and permanently compromised physiologically, during gestation, by the introduction of chemicals...that's something that lasts a lifetime

Interesting point @spookedlife. But children can also be fundamentally and permanently compromised physiologically, during gestation, by having a non medicated mother - and that also lasts a lifetime.

If a medicated mother has attachment then the effects of medication can be mediated. But if an unmedicated mother has no attachment to the child, due to her mental health issues, then the child is in for a catastrophic lifetime.

I think if a woman is living in an abusive situation (emotional, physical, sexual, financial, intellectual) - then the child is going to be anxious whether that mother is medicated or not medicated. Stress is literally laid down at every stage of the foetus' development.