Is Ptsd Just An Evolutionary Outdated Adaptation Mechanism?

[Mallaky]

Hey

Just a thought that came to me, and am curious what people think. Nowadays we think of PTSD as an mental injury or illness but could it be, that it once served the purpose of changing people into better surviving extremely harsh conditions?

The hypervigilance, the increased startleresponse, the constant fight and flight, the anger and mistrust, light sleep, those could all be understood as the mind powering up the survival instincts. I sometimes feel like a cavemen surrounded by hippie aliens anyway, so that would fit nicely.

If that were the case, would that not open a nice path for easing into the diagnosis and accepting of oneself and the new situation a sufferer has to live in? "Your survival instincts are permanently powered up and cant switch off anymore, because of blah....." sounds so much nicer then "You are permanent damaged because shit got to tough."

Also interesting to me would be the question what changed? Why is it outdated now. The answer would be, I believe, the creation of societies that take care of some things, but demand others in return and the PTSD state is not suited for that kind of environment.

Am I being totally silly here? Stating the obvious? This feels like stoner thoughts lol, but I am not stoned. Well, maybe a little.

 

[Weemie]

this isn't silly at all, and you're very right. ptsd itself plays on evolutionary instincts. the need to survive, for alertness, for awareness, to be adrenalized. when you're in a traumatic situation, trauma responses are not disordered. it's what happens when they persist well after the traumatic situation that's being called into question when it comes to calling ptsd a disorder- and that's not exactly evolutionary. when we're beating away other cavemen with sticks, that's when we want to fight. we don't want to keep fighting after the war is over. our brains don't recognize that.

we tend to stigmatize disorder but it's just a way that we have developed to identify when something is disabling in every day life. ptsd is the only mental illlness caused by injury, so that's interesting as well, because it's not intrinsic- you're not born with ptsd. i think what is likely to happen is that ptsd classification will move away from mental illness and more into tbi territory as we learn more about how the brain organically functions. we already know that the hippocampus is negatively affected, thus causing vivid memories or no memories at all. i think this is probably the future for most mental illnesses, we just can't see that deep inside yet.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

ptsd is the only mental illlness caused by injury,

Not true.

It is the only mental illness that MUST be caused by an injury. Every other mental illness can indeed be caused by trauma or adverse circumstances. Trauma can cause anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc.

 

[Sighs]

@Mallaky - I don't think this is in the past. I often try to gently point out to my vet that his reactions / responses etc are not "abnormal". They are largely why he managed to survive over ten years of active deployments in 3 different theaters of war - with a lot of luck thrown in. The only problem is that after that length of time he can't turn them off anymore.

I wrote something for him recently which ended with the lines:

"I never knew him "before". But I can see for myself what he told me. He can never come home. He has never left the war zone."

I wish he could see what you've seen - its not about being "broken" or "damaged" - its about being a survivor.

Hugs if you accept them!

 

[Weemie]

Not true.

It is the only mental illness that MUST be caused by an injury. Every other mental illness can indeed be caused by trauma or adverse circumstances. Trauma can cause anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc.

that is what i intended to say. however most mental illnesses are predisposed and not caused exclusively by trauma. environmental indicators play a role and they can manifest w/o the addition of trauma. ptsd cannot.

 

[Born to Run]

we think of PTSD as an mental injury or illness but could it be, that it once served the purpose of changing people into better surviving extremely harsh conditions?

I really like your thoughts but am not always exactly sure what you mean. I tend to think you are confusing two things; adaptation on an individual level and adaptation on the environmental level. PTSD is an individual reaction pattern to survive extreme stress, and this never had the purpose to get the person into a better place. Driving people to a better place to survive would be an adaptation to changing environmental factors, not because of internal stressors but outside stressors. Of course nomadic people also move with the season that is food driven, hunger as the internal stressor, but not pain driven.

"Your survival instincts are permanently powered up and cant switch off anymore, because of blah....." sounds so much nicer then "You are permanent damaged because shit got to tough."

I honestly always think of ptsd as in the first quote you write, never the second. I also do not believe in permanent damage.

Also interesting to me would be the question what changed? Why is it outdated now. The answer would be, I believe, the creation of societies that take care of some things, but demand others in return and the PTSD state is not suited for that kind of environment.

You mean the change from looking at ptsd as a survival f*ck up to permanent damage? Then I say, there is nothing that is outdated. We still have the reptilian brain that is on auto pilot to make us survive. Without that one, we would be lost. If agree with ptsd we are a total misfit in this society, with the BS 'I am fine' culture. Janet -early 1900 I believe- was the first psychiatrist to start writing about trauma, before that people just suffered. In tribal hunter gatherer clans I suppose there was less ptsd, as the people lived closer to nature, and probably they could express the fight/flight in relation to their environment -while hunting- better. Still interpersonal trauma could lead to ptsd too, but then there was the community structure that made it possible to find someone who would take care of you, if your parents rather did not want you. Today we have these highly compartmentalised individualised societies that are just not healthy for people. Imho for no one, with or without ptsd.

Would this make some sense?

 

[Chava]

I'm not sure, but it feels like you might be confusing PTSD with basic survival responses. PTSD never helps anyone really. Survival responses...our ability to flood our system with adrenaline...will always be helpful. I don't think conditions are even much less harsh. We aren't doing all of our own hunting. But it's not somehow a safe world. We still need our survival responses. I need that flood of adrenaline when an idiot pulls out right in front of me on the highway. I can go from thinking about my grocery list to BOOM!! STOP!!!!! We will always need this. PTSD, though not even a diagnosis, did not serve some purpose in early times. Likely lifetime warriors had more amped up nervous systems, but so do today's servicemen, policemen, neurosurgeons, and pilots. They don't need PTSD to function (PTSD is not helpful). They need an alert nervous system.

Trauma and use of the fight-flight resources does not cause PTSD. We will always use fight-flight and our adrenaline surges. In most traumas, all this energy finds a release. We are jittery for a while, then continue on. PTSD is more often tied to a freeze response...dissociation at the time of the trauma or being captive, or unable to fight or flee properly. I'm not explaining this perfectly. But PTSD is not an adaptation. The fight-flight reflexes are and they continue to be useful. My ancestors lived with more temperature extremes and unpredictability in some basic survival matters. But they were actually very well adapted to it. I would not know how to feed myself if the markets closed down. Also, I'm on the highway going 60mph to work every day. They were not. The world is just different, but not really safer. We still need our autonomic nervous system to make us available to deal with danger or survival threat. We aren't invincible yet.

Sorry if I'm way off track here.

 

[Born to Run]

adaptation on an individual level and adaptation on the environmental level. PTSD is an individual reaction pattern to survive extreme stress,

I never intended to use the word adaptation, as it directly contradicts my second sentence, in which I use individual reaction pattern. Sorry, the mind is not clear today. @Chava thank you for pointing that out :-) Not directly, but from your post.

 

[Chava]

I really didn't mean to point out anything even indirectly, but glad if I made any sense at all! :)

 

[Born to Run]

No you did without intention, and that is way cooler :) I am still not entirely sure what OP was getting at, but topic is cool anyway :cool:

 

[Deleted member 1860]

that is what i intended to say. however most mental illnesses are predisposed and not caused exclusively by trauma. environmental indicators play a role and they can manifest w/o the addition of trauma.

Uhm, same thing.

Trauma IS an environmental cause.

I'm not sure what sort of argument you're trying to make?

"Trauma" is just on the extreme end of environmental causes. I think that "predisposition" is more along the lines of biological factors, ie a family history of a mental disorder that is genetically linked.

 

[Weemie]

I'm not sure what sort of argument you're trying to make?

ok

I think that "predisposition" is more along the lines of biological factors, ie a family history of a mental disorder that is genetically linked.

yes, im aware of what "predisposition" means