Endless Pit Of Sadness

[Chava]

I've posted about sadness before, but am figuring out some stuff. It's hard for me to have any feelings, and I have a small (though slowly growing) range of ways to deal. Anger has been a problem but I've been able to recognize some of my self injury impulses as connected to really old protective/fight impulses that got directed at myself (as the safer option at the time). But sadness is a daily thing lately. I drank a couple weeks ago, for the first time in a couple decades. :mad::( I was trying to somehow "feel" sadness and it backfired badly.

Since then my therapist has been back from travel and we've talked about it. It's not so much that I have to "feel" sadness...but that I have to first feel safe and able to soothe myself, which is also a skill that's slowly developing. If I lack the ability to soothe, any amount of sadness quickly sucks me into going blank or getting completely swamped and overwhelmed because it all connects to really early sadness, fear I'm dying, feelings of non-existence, probably abandonment stuff from hospitalization and also abusive and ill mother when she was present (I had to be blank or "non-existent" around her to be safe if her mood was on edge).

I don't know if this never-ending pit of sadness actually goes away or what. For me I suspect the healing is actually in learning how to connect with others and not feel the old sadness as constantly re-triggered. And the healing is also in being able to soothe myself. I've had shame over even trying to soothe myself....it's been horrible. It took a lot of work just to get to being able to hold a stuffed animal in therapy. But I'm really glad to say I feel a lot more comfortable with that (I just made the wrong soothing choice when I drank, so it's still a little scary how I don't know what I'm doing).

If you have worked though sadness or feel it as a sort of very deep pit, what in therapy or on your own has helped you? Are you able to "feel" it in tiny manageable bits, like letting a faucet you can control just leak a bit, then shut off and go on with your day? Or do you have to numb out easily? Has your focus been more on self-soothing and has that more naturally helped the sadness? I think a big thing with feelings is that I'm so afraid of all of them, because I can't manage them, but starting to believe that having more resources (like ability to self soothe) is helping me be a little less horrified and prone to wanting to blank out. :ninja:

 

[Tinyflame]

If you have worked though sadness or feel it as a sort of very deep pit, what in therapy or on your own has helped you? Are you able to "feel" it in tiny manageable bits, like letting a faucet you can control just leak a bit, then shut off and go on with your day? Or do you have to numb out easily?

.. I think a big thing with feelings is that I'm so afraid of all of them, because I can't manage them, but starting to believe that having more resources (like ability to self soothe) is helping me be a little less horrified and prone to wanting to blank out. :ninja:

@Chava , probably not helpful but thank you, mine is more like a faucet with a drip. In a serious way, I think sometimes it's just a sadness of the heart perhaps one cannot fully shake, underneath. I think I have come to a certain degree to accept it.

However, in writing this now I think there is an the upside that that reflects feeling ''safe enough' to tolerate it.

I am shocked at how much feelings I try to block out. I too suspect learning self-soothing (or something similar) could be helpful. I hope others have suggestions.

 

[DogwoodTree]

The only thing that has worked for me so far is just basic mindfulness. The sadness/grief/pain is there. Yes, it's there. Don't have to do anything about it...just let it be there. "Hold space" for it to exist inside of me...without blaming anyone else or lashing out at anyone, without directing it back onto myself in destructive ways, without trying to "fix" it...just give it space to exist.

One day in therapy when I was really flooded with crazy feelings like that...deep in that pit...my T suggested just "holding space" for the part experiencing that feeling rather than trying to "fix" the part or change its experience. He read a portion of this article to me:

[still can't post links...google "holding space" and look for heather plett's article]

"What does it mean to hold space for someone else? It means that we are willing to walk alongside another person in whatever journey they’re on without judging them, making them feel inadequate, trying to fix them, or trying to impact the outcome. When we hold space for other people, we open our hearts, offer unconditional support, and let go of judgement and control."

"To truly support people in their own growth, transformation, grief, etc., we can’t do it by taking their power away (ie. trying to fix their problems), shaming them (ie. implying that they should know more than they do), or overwhelming them (ie. giving them more information than they’re ready for). We have to be prepared to step to the side so that they can make their own choices, offer them unconditional love and support, give gentle guidance when it’s needed, and make them feel safe even when they make mistakes."

 

[Tinyflame]

Sometimes I think 'healing' leaves a scar of sadness in it's wake. Especially when it's the first-ever time (or well second, the first being the living through it) it's actually acknowledged. So it's 'progress'. Not 'numb', either.

I don't really understand how mindfulness helps deal with it or 'hold' the space @DogwoodTree , can you explain? Also it seems to infer it requires 'another' to hold the space- ideal perhaps but not always possible. Not sure how 'fair' that would be too to another. I do agree though because somewhere the fear is mixed with sadness. Or vice versa, more like it. Metaphorically (or even literally) I think holding a hand 'holding a space' I'd probably have a death-grip or hurt someone's hand, left to 'the truth'. :(

Maybe @Chava the sadness is intertwined with loss, fear of the future or the unknown? All of where it 'is' or has been even or where we go from 'now' is unknown. It's all a steep learning curve for me, anyway.

I think the dichotomy of the sadness co-existing with 'whatever' else makes me feel like 2 people at once, sometimes. One 'relates' but the stuff beneath the surface is another matter.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I don't really understand how mindfulness helps deal with it or 'hold' the space @DogwoodTree , can you explain? Also it seems to infer it requires 'another' to hold the space- ideal perhaps but not always possible. Not sure how 'fair' that would be too to another.

My T uses an IFS (internal family systems) approach to understanding trauma and how to deal with the recovery process, so he explains that it's a part in the system that is the bearer of that sadness/pain. When the feeling of pain/sadness comes up, the self (your central existence) can hold space for the part that is bringing that sadness to the surface. It's essentially a gentle curiosity, and making space for the sadness to exist without trying to fix it or change it...almost like being an internal T to your own parts.

It's like...relating to the sadness (or the part containing the sadness) as an existence separate from my core existence, but within me, without destroying me.

It doesn't make the pain disappear (like it seems self-soothing would try to do), but it recognizes that the pain doesn't define my identity, either...it's just a collection of painful energy within me that needs space to flow through and out of my system simply by being recognized and allowed to exist rather than being stuffed back in the box and buried again. Then the part containing that sadness can experience a lessening of the pressure that built up within from holding all that pain for so long.

Flooding happens when the pain overwhelms the space I've given it, and consumes me. I think with this kind of pain, you can't always avoid flooding. But by learning how to give it enough space to exist and flow through (not just hang around and stagnate), not only can I drain off pressure built up from the past, but I'll also better handle new events that create pain and suffering and sadness.

For me personally...and I might not be the person to model after because I really don't have all this figured out yet...but for me personally, what that looks like is simply being able to sit with the pain and say, "yes, this sucks...this hurts...this really hurts", without trying to blame anyone else (external rage) or myself (internal rage), and without minimizing the pain (which is what I've done most of my life so far and that didn't work).

Does that make more sense?

 

[Tinyflame]

Does that make more sense?

Dear @DogwoodTree , to be honest it doesn't to me really, but due to no fault of your own. I suspect I do that in some ways already, in the sense of not external blaming, when it comes to sadness not internal blaming (with the caveat of accepting culpability where I feel necessary, etc, sadness being different from shame etc). But I guess were I 'observing' it it would either lead to dissociation or numbing. I do describe it or try to determine the 'why' I feel it part. But I don't relate to 'parts' per se or inner child stuff either. I'm too- what's one word for it- 'pragmatic'? I can't sooth in a child -manner as an adult. And minimizing I do too, though I don't acknowledge it even more so. Also I feel broken enough to not want to compartmentalize, think I would just stuff it/ ignore. Which I'd rather do, lol, but that's numbing or maladaptive coping methods. Sure sounds good on paper! Don't think for myself I can separate out what I feel & experience that emotionally detached from it though.

But it doesn't mean it won't work for @Chava ! :tup:

Thanks though. :hug:

 

[InvisibleSun]

Or do you have to numb out easily? Has your focus been more on self-soothing and has that more naturally helped the sadness? I think a big thing with feelings is that I'm so afraid of all of them, because I can't manage them, but starting to believe that having more resources (like ability to self soothe) is helping me be a little less horrified and prone to wanting to blank out. :ninja:

Numb out..either through dissociation or self medication or addictive behaviors of just about any kind. I'm always running from my emotions because I'm afraid to feel them too. I have no idea how to manage feelings...any feeling. Even good ones. Especially the good ones. Except through self destruction because I internalize all my pain and then break down. I too am working on many of these same issues..and it is possible to feel again. And for those feelings to be of happiness and not of despair. We just have to learn to live the life that feeds our soul..Just hang in there, @Chava..you'll make it through this..we all will. :)

 

[Chava]

doesn't make the pain disappear (like it seems self-soothing would try to do), but it recognizes that the pain doesn't define my identity, either...it's just a collection of painful energy within me that needs space to flow through and out of my system simply by being recognized and allowed to exist rather than being stuffed back in the box and buried again

Thanks @DogwoodTree , I understand mindfulness, but to me that is having a sort of distance, or safe detachment...like naming and acknowledging sadness is there but not be carried away or identify with it completely (I can do that to an extent...that's gotten much easier). But I'm a little confused about how the sadness gets expressed and exits. If I allow the "feeling" not just the mindfulness of it, then I have to allow the expression, to which there is no end. I can not cry without feeling like I will die. There is no end to it. I do need soothing...not to stop it, but to know I'm sad but not going to die. But it sounds like you've found a way of working with feelings that really works for you, and that's good to hear. I just can't do the "feeling" of feelings. I can mindfully name them and know they are there. If they will exit, it has to be the smallest controllable amounts with the support of knowing I can manage (self-soothe) as a response. Or something like that... (still working this out obviously)..

As far as "holding space" I think my therapist does that for me, and I can safely experience some sadness. I can't on my own though. Too scary, too much.

I can't sooth in a child -manner as an adult.

Why not? I'm only at the level of a child. My "adult" ways of self-soothing were alcohol and cigarettes. I think a teddy bear is a step up!

Maybe Link Removed the sadness is intertwined with loss, fear of the future or the unknown?

I think mostly just total sadness, grief, disconnection...make tied in with past fears of non-existence...so sadness triggers emotional flashbacks of total obliteration. Like I'm not here. Total loss.

Thank you @Junebug for lots of good thoughts...

@InvisibleSun ...I have a hard time with the good feelings, too! I appreciate so much that my current therapist understands this...I'm taking everything in small doses, but aware of need to work on good experiences and just feeling "okay." A past therapist was always pushing me to get out and "have fun!" (meh, f*ck off, okay? we didn't click...)

We just have to learn to live the life that feeds our soul..

Yes, I'm working on this....finding the good feelings (that aren't "too good"). Usually they feel like "mine" and not related to good feelings others could have taken away from me. So weird little niche interests. Maybe I can branch out in time, feel good through more normal things like relationships with others, etc. But I'm in this little sphere of trying to pull out of numb without just finding new ways to numb out.

 

[DogwoodTree]

But I don't relate to 'parts' per se or inner child stuff either. I'm too- what's one word for it- 'pragmatic'?

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, I think. My mom was dx'd with multiple personality disorder (early 90's) not long after I left for college, so I've had this paranoia around the whole idea of being un-integrated. When my T first suggested the IFS theory, I got mad and said that felt like moving towards chaos, not away from it. But after studying up on it, I can see how IFS is helpful to provide some level of cognitive structure to all the different layers of complexity inside.

Rather than trying to treat the whole thing as one, homogeneous unit, I can address different layers in different ways, working with the complexity instead of in denial of it. That helped give me some peace, actually, to realize that I didn't have to be all in one piece just to be functional...it was non-pathologizing in that I came to realize that even very healthy people have layers of experiencing inner and outer reality in different ways within the same person.

And all that "inner child" stuff annoys the crap outta me. I wasn't a kid back when I was a kid, and when I was little and weak and vulnerable, my whole world used me and/or ignored me. So why would I want to be that kid now??

But I'm a little confused about how the sadness gets expressed and exits. If I allow the "feeling" not just the mindfulness of it, then I have to allow the expression, to which there is no end. I can not cry without feeling like I will die. There is no end to it. I do need soothing...not to stop it, but to know I'm sad but not going to die. But it sounds like you've found a way of working with feelings that really works for you, and that's good to hear. I just can't do the "feeling" of feelings.

Maybe I erroneously gave the impression that my explanation of "holding space" for my feelings has been "THE ANSWER" for me, and it hasn't, not by a long shot. It's just been a starting place for me. Like I said with my first post in this thread, it's the only thing that has even begun to be helpful, but it certainly hasn't solved all the issues.

Like you, I can't do the "feeling" of feelings. They're all locked up inside. I look like a zombie on the outside usually, like, almost just not even there. If tears start to come up, or if my throat gets tight from the grief and pain...it all gets locked down really fast without my even wanting it to. I have yet to cry in front of anyone about this since...good grief...since 1992...and that was the first and only time that happened. Holding space for my feelings just helps me survive long enough for the panicky I-can't-live-through-this-anymore feeling to pass. But it doesn't get it out in any kind of usable expression at all.

The world "out there" is too vast and empty of connection for me to even see much purpose in "expressing" emotions right now. Even if I were to cry with someone over this...what would it accomplish for me? I can't seem to receive love or emotional connection from anyone anyway, so even if someone happened to be there giving exactly the healthiest and most sensitive response possible...I don't think it would actually help me because I seem to lack any real ability to connect with anyone on an emotional level...I'm just too locked down and distant and broken. It would be like telling someone born with no legs to get up and dance. It feels like I'm missing the soul-parts required to connect with people that way. Not that I don't want to...I just can't...tried for decades...still can't.

Anyways, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. It's just a first tool in what I hope will be a well-equipped toolkit at some point.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I was feeling sadness and grief for many, many years. I think that is the grieving process that I needed to do and I was so confused and troubled. I had so many other issues to work through as well.

EMDR helped me with the branding experiences memories.

To me our own healing process is a long journey we take without good directions to get to this healing and recovery. For me it took me so many, many years to get to where I am now and now when I look back it seems to me that I was maturing during the journey and and am not healed nor cured but my life is so much better now.

Keep on working and learning about you. It does get better and there is a future and a hope for you if you do not give up on yourself. It does get better.

 

[Chava]

Maybe I erroneously gave the impression that my explanation of "holding space" for my feelings has been "THE ANSWER" for me, and it hasn't, not by a long shot. It's just been a starting place for me.

It is a good starting point...I do understand that. I admit I didn't read that it wasn't for expressing or ridding the sadness. But management, yes, that makes sense. And it's a good step. I used to distract myself to the point that all feelings were far away from me. It does help that I can say "this is sadness" but also keep a detached view. My therapist encourages staying a few feet away from it, going closer as I feel safe.

Okay, now I want to quote this whole paragraph...

The world "out there" is too vast and empty of connection for me to even see much purpose in "expressing" emotions right now. Even if I were to cry with someone over this...what would it accomplish for me? I can't seem to receive love or emotional connection from anyone anyway, so even if someone happened to be there giving exactly the healthiest and most sensitive response possible...I don't think it would actually help me because I seem to lack any real ability to connect with anyone on an emotional level...I'm just too locked down and distant and broken. It would be like telling someone born with no legs to get up and dance. It feels like I'm missing the soul-parts required to connect with people that way. Not that I don't want to...I just can't...tried for decades...still can't.

Are you in therapy? Even in therapy in took me 1-2 years to shed a real, deep tear. Someone had died, so I had an easy connection to sadness. But I found out it was safe to cry there. I can't connect with people either or feel comforted by them. I didn't have the luxury of feeling soothed or comforted or even safe in my childhood family. I really like my therapist and I "trust" her (quotes meaning it took a few years). I do value the therapeutic relationship as a place to connect and be able to feel and safely contain and learn more about these feelings. It sounds like you do have a therapist. Have you seen her long? Connection takes a very long time for me...my therapist understands this as one of my mountains...a challenge to therapy but also a goal to therapy and life. I drive ridiculously far to see her, but at this point I can't see quitting until I feel like I can cry on my own and not feeling triggered into old feelings/memories.

A kitty of mine died and I was proud of myself for just being able to bawl for her. I really felt her loss and cried for her pain and loss a lot. So, while that felt bad, I was so glad I could do it. But the daily sadness of feeling disconnected latches onto all the old sadness of being shut in the garage because I wasn't allowed in the house as a little kid...the deep sadness of never being seen or loved...I feel it all the time and if i'd cry over it I'd become physically sick from it. Its' too much. So yes, I do appreciate the mindful first step. i'm not pretending to be happy. i'm sad, btu not feeling it. Sometimes I can hold a teddy bear and acknowledge the sadness vs numb out, but I still can't cry...or feel it too much. So mindfulness + teddy bear to hold space for sadness in a safe way.

 

[Tinyflame]

Why not? I'm only at the level of a child. My "adult" ways of self-soothing were alcohol and cigarettes. I think a teddy bear is a step up!

I think it's good too @Chava. (I'm just not so good at it.) :hug:

And all that "inner child" stuff annoys the crap outta me. I wasn't a kid back when I was a kid, and when I was little and weak and vulnerable, my whole world used me and/or ignored me. So why would I want to be that kid now??

Yes totally understand this.

Anyways, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. It's just a first tool in what I hope will be a well-equipped toolkit at some point.

No, thank you. I should have waited as I didn't have much constructive to add.