Feeling Safe With Therapist... Or With Anyone

[Chava]

Trust would seem basic, but I don't know if that's it for me. I feel like I've trusted my therapist, like she wouldn't hurt me or mess me up with her form of therapy...except harder to trust through episodes of feeling like she'd just quit on me (and through those she was clear she wasn't quitting and encouraged me not to quit either).

So basic trust is important, but also the connection, I believe. I don't think I feel very safe without that. I can feel a little safe with just trust. I think we've had a pretty good connection but I've realized it's taken 2-3 years for her to really seem like a real person to me. That's no insult to her at all...that's all me. I don't know how to explain that one. But, the unsafe part would be how one of us is somewhat unreal, so it's been hard to access work beyond that at time...this is all worse under stress or meltdown, or obviously in various dissociative and spacey states. I am unreal or she is unreal. As I slowly got beyond that and we are both real together (it's scary getting there and I think had to take a long time), then I started feeling more safe.

This issue of us being semi-real has been beyond conscious control. I "know" better, but realize I do this in all relationships that feel like they should be close or where I should be able to count on someone for some amount of care or safety. Around average acquaintances I also maintain a bubble that makes it nearly impossible for us to develop any closer relationships or friendships.

It's likely a way of protecting myself that had to break down very carefully. What helped, I suppose, was my therapist just staying pretty consistent, patient, and gentle through it. And after months of insurance questions were resolved, it felt like we could both be more committed to therapy.

So, even if the pattern of feeling unreal or feeling that others aren't really real has been protective in the past, I don't think I can really experience real safety in a relationship without moving beyond that. To be real and trusting, and have a therapist who seems real and trustworthy seems to be basic for "safety" in therapy (and all the other essential qualities of respecting my process, being patient, having tools to help me, being responsive even when things don't seem very real, not giving up on me, not getting angry, etc). And then...I had to somehow get beyond my every temptation to quit therapy! ;):sneaky: I don't think I've had the right therapist for me (before current one), but looking back I always quit before they even seemed like real people to me. We never actually had a connection.

I would have never imagined safety was possible for me. Through therapy, this connection (which can act like a sort of container), and my own experiments I am slowly finding safety within myself. I think it's possible. But if you have very old or long-standing trauma, like the stuff that affects how you can even work with even a good therapist, it's likely a process that takes time. You can't just rip away your old forms of "safety" (dissociation, avoidance, whatever) and make real safety work. It has to be a pretty long, patient, compassionate, committed process of reworking all that really old stuff..

 

[Deleted member 29920]

I have never felt truly safe with anyone yet, don't know how to overcome this.

 

[DogwoodTree]

To be real and trusting, and have a therapist who seems real and trustworthy seems to be basic for "safety" in therapy (and all the other essential qualities of respecting my process, being patient, having tools to help me, being responsive even when things don't seem very real, not giving up on me, not getting angry, etc).

I think you're hitting on some key issues for me, too. I have a really hard time seeing both of us as real people at the same time. The gap between everyone else and myself is just too massive for me to be on both sides at the same time.

 

[Tinyflame]

I feel others are human, not so much myself. Or perhaps that myself/ my realities are not bridge-able.

Off the subject a bit @DogwoodTree , I did hear something that may help- to reframe memories. I said before (I think?! Eiy, rushing! :rolleyes: ) it's so hard to accept non-condemnation (like @Chava said above), like I said feeling awful as per myself (self-rejection) / SI disclosure/ hug you can't easily pull out of.

But, why (as I always do) think of the horrible feeling (the thoughts towards myself/ shame/ self-blame etc), but rather instead that it could be a 'good' memory (not one of feeling ashamed, re: the SI/ myself), but rather life-saving or life-affirming/ healthy (despite 'me')? In other words, maybe you could find some of the same with your equine therapy, etc? :hug:

(PS, it reminds me of the saying when 'we' (everyone) need love the most we deserve it the least'.)

 

[DogwoodTree]

Based on someone's recommendation in another thread, I looked up Mark Sehl on youtube...a comment at 5:23 in this video:

"'My mother never really came into my world.' She really didn't sense him. ... Intimacy is really, being known and recognized. And back to that quote, 'It's a joy to be hidden, a disaster not to be found.'"

I don't think I've ever been "known" by anyone, or at least, never felt known. So I don't know how to know myself. No one ever gave me the space for that, so now, even when my T does make space for that, I don't know how to do anything with it. Like...somehow, growing up, no one ever helped me bridge the gap between "inside" and "outside", and in fact, the gap had to grow larger and larger for survival.

Or perhaps that myself/ my realities are not bridge-able.

Yes. There's inner reality, and outer reality. I can be experiencing an emotional meltdown inside, or a terrifying panic attack, or a horrible flashback, but nothing--and I mean nothing--shows on the outside.

when 'we' (everyone) need love the most we deserve it the least'

How do you let love in?

In other words, maybe you could find some of the same with your equine therapy, etc?

I work hard to learn and grow from every experience, whether it's therapy or not, so that includes equine therapy. But I don't feel safe with the equine T. I don't feel like she "gets" me at all...I don't feel like she will protect the relationship when I can't. She does take care of herself, so it's a relief with her to not feel like I have to "take care of" her (which I have to do with most people in my life). That's a good thing about her and I am learning from that experience. But I don't feel like she is making much effort to bridge the gap between us. It seems like she thinks I'm not trying very hard on my end. And I realize I've been resistant to some of her suggestions and things, but it's so hard to trust her recommendations when I don't yet trust her.

This is really confusing to me, because good grief, I'm paying her to help me. Seems like I would do more of what she suggests before concluding that what she's offering isn't helping (I have tried, and that day when we didn't talk at all, I had gone in determined to pour myself into whatever activity she suggested no matter how silly it sounded to me...but then she didn't suggest anything...and I wasn't in a place mentally where I could handle complete and total lack of guidance). It feels like I showed up for the first day of algebra class, and was immediately handed an open-book, calculus final exam. Just because it's an "open book" exam, doesn't mean I'll have any idea how to do the math. When she says, "How would you like to connect with the horse?"...I'm lost. I have no idea. I really don't. If I already knew how to connect with anyone (or any animal), I wouldn't be there--I would've already solved this issue myself.

 

[Tinyflame]

Do you like animals or horses @DogwoodTree ?

 

[DogwoodTree]

Do you like animals or horses @DogwoodTree ?

That question has a complicated answer. I think I like the idea of animals more than the animals themselves. I don't like the daily hassle of taking care of them. I don't feel like they actually care about me...they just like me to the degree that I give them what they want (food, shelter, affection, structure). And they feel dirty and sometimes smell bad. They irritate my touch sensitivities (wet noses, dirty fur, shedding hair everywhere, licking me after licking their butts...).

But I do like watching their behavior and trying to figure out how they think and how they see the world. I like seeing what they're interested in (unless it's a dog eating poop), and I like watching them move and interact with other animals and other people.

They're interesting to me, but I don't get a sense of companionship from them.

 

[Tinyflame]

Well, dogs are pack animals, they love to be together with 'their people'. They will love you unconditionally, but no matter how intelligent they are they are like children who never get older than six. I will say they (mostly) will pick up & sense your vibes- why some are so suited as therapy dogs. All dogs will even sense how you feel holding a leash, you communicate hugely through your feelings. Perhaps try loving them first?

From my work with horses, though as with dogs they all have their own personalities, they are flight animals, almost like they have ptsd in a sense. I read once they are considered the most dangerous animal on earth pound-for-pound, if they weren't flight animals. They are magnificently sensitive.

What (other than animals) does interest you?

 

[DogwoodTree]

dogs are pack animals, they love to be together with 'their people'. They will love you unconditionally

I think, maybe, I have the wrong definition of "love."

Perhaps try loving them first?

I've had several dogs, and despite taking good care of them and attempting to "bond" with them, I've never felt "love" in return...only the demand from them of getting what they want, or a sense of obligation on my part to provide well for them and not harm them. I admire their beauty and the uniqueness of their personalities. And I get used to their presence. But that's about it.

What (other than animals) does interest you?

Rambling...

I like systems, and learning new things. I like creating something unique and original and insightful.

I like color...lots of colors. And gentle but firm movement, like water rippling over river rocks. I'm fascinated with spirituality.

I'm drawn to "organic" and "real"...trees, meadow grass, deer in the forest, mountains, flowers, veggies, ocean waves, stars. Love the stars.

Always loved airplanes because I like the freedom they represent, even though I'm afraid of heights.

I like and notice numbers. Simplicity. Congruency. Random patterns. Contrast. Variety. Authenticity and truth. Freedom. Stories that have relevance and depth.

I thrive on making connections between ideas. My primary language, I think, is ideas.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think @DogwoodTree then you should stick with that which you naturally love ^ .

I think, maybe, I have the wrong definition of "love."

No, you have your own definition. Dogs are like small children, we give to them not expecting back, in the sense they re dependent on us. They will give back (in spades) but one has to be open-hearted with them. JMHExperience but they can sense what someone feels/ thinks of them.

It is also my understanding that with ptsd/ equine therapy, horses sense keenly our emotions & react back. Therefore the purpose is to become attuned with calming our emotions (selves) through the feedback of their reaction to us.