Sufferer After 18yrs I Think Therapy Isn't Going To Work...

[Alien Goodness]

We've had two long stretches of couples therapy at different times in our marriage.

When there's no or little pressure, the listening & communication works. But when it's a bad day, all the good intentions disappear and our default survival modes kick in. I wish I could f**king stop it, but the amygdala kicks in first. My need for space and time alone increases exponentially. And when stressed, my partner needs to check on me more frequently. I experience this as invasive and it triggers me. My partner is unwilling to let go & give me space as that's too scary.
(i.e. Detached vs. Anxious-Preoccupied using Attachment Theory language)

My partner sees my triggers as my responsibility & is unwilling to change behaviour as believes the attachment behaviour is more normal than my avoidance. Partner, and therapist, believe that I should adopt more attaching (or secure) behaviours instead of detaching.

I can see the perspective that my PTSD makes me odd one, but I didn't choose my childhood experiences. I feel that I'm being made responsible for our dysfunctional relationship. But it's had to see things objectively when there's so much shame. If I could go back in time, I would never get married. But that's fantasy & escapism. I have to face reality and be as wise and compassionate as it is possible for me to me. Compassionate to myself, and to my partner & children.

Thanks for reading :alien:

 

[intothelight]

Hi Alien Goodness,

Welcome to the forum!

PTSD isn't curable, but there are people who reach a point where they are symptom free and can maintain that level for long periods of time. Personally, I believe there are some things that become a part of who we are and that as a result of trauma are something that we just live with. Therapy can help a person work through trauma and learn to manage symptoms, but there are some things that cannot be changed and they just are.

An area my partner struggles with is expressing emotions & opinions, often feeling squashed if disagreed with. So it has been an area of growth for my partner to criticize me, as my partner describes living with me as walking on eggshells.

Communication is difficult between two people, especially when one feels they are not free to communicate. However, communication is not something that should always be triggering or met with a defensive response. If a person expresses a differing opinion, that isn't something that is necessarily criticism and it shouldn't be presented in that manner.

When there's no or little pressure, the listening & communication works. But when it's a bad day, all the good intentions disappear and our default survival modes kick in.

Stress increases PTSD symptoms and perhaps discussions need to be put aside when stress levels are high. Needing space and time to re-center isn't necessarily a maladaptive coping mechanism and may just be your coping mechanism. If the issues never get discussed and resolved, then that is another issue and will over time destroy a relationship. But that is something that only you can answer for yourself.

My partner sees my triggers as my responsibility & is unwilling to change behaviour as believes the attachment behaviour is more normal than my avoidance. Partner, and therapist, believe that I should adopt more attaching (or secure) behaviours instead of detaching.

A relationship is just that a "partnership" and what you believe also matters. Avoidance is maladaptive, but having a buffer to allow the stress levels to subside and regaining control is not maladaptive. In order for things to work, there has to be a balance so that both people's needs are met. Is the issue stress, maladaptive coping, or a partner who is not willing to accept you for who you are?

Therapy can help you to find the tools to change, but that is only if you want to change or believe the change is necessary. Beyond that therapy isn't going to really make any difference. Just my opinion.

Debbie

 

[NovemberStar]

I think its definitely possible.

I was PTSD free for 12 years - I had acceptance about the abuse (prolonged childhood abuse by my alcoholic mother, who also died in front of me when I was 10- fatal heart attack), and was truly at peace with my life, having had a lot of therapy. I continued on in 'check in' therapy, where I'd see a T regularly (fortnightly mainly) for 'supervision' type stuff (debriefing about work and other life stresses). In those 12 years I went from being a full time psych patient who had multiple mental health workers - psychiatrist, psychotherapist, occupation therapist, psych nurse, attended a groups program and lived in supported accommodation (halfway house with a staff member on 24/7).

I was always doing one of the following to 'cope' - cutting, burning, overdosing, starving myself, purging, bingeing, overdosing on laxatives, over-exercsiing, binge alcohol drinking. But I had a dream to work in obstetrics. I went to rehab, a 3 week program - it saved my life. I got sober, turned my life around (attending AA for many years). I went to University, graduated top of my class. I app;lied for and got into my dream bachelor degree (obstetrics). I qualified, and despite my mental health history (and criminal convictions I'd had to disclose) I achieved my dream, and graduated with a 2nd degree, and was admitted to my profession.

Then further trauma (series of devastating earthquakes) triggered the PTSD again. I've spent the past 3 years on the roller coaster of PTSD and new pain.

But I had peace once, so why isn't it possible I can have it again? It's been 20 plus years for me, in therapy. I accept I will probably always have some form of therapy in my life. But I won't accept that I will always 'have' to have PTSD in it.[DOUBLEPOST=1399541749,1399541559][/DOUBLEPOST]@intothelight Why is PTSD not curable? I've never understood that claim. I really do not believe I would have relapsed back into PTSD had I not experienced another severe trauma.

 

[intothelight]

@NovemberStar To date, I have not read anything from a medical source that claims that PTSD is curable. From what I have learned and from my own personal experience, PTSD can be managed and people do live symptom free for extended periods of time. However, life is full of stress and traumatic experiences and when either of those reach a certain level, PTSD symptoms flair up again.

The best analogy I have read is likening PTSD to a remission and reoccurrence.

 

[NovemberStar]

I understand the medical profession not saying 'there is a cure' for PTSD (or any mental health issue); HOWEVER I don't believe that automatically means you can't have a life free of it. Maybe you either have PTSD or you don't; you experience a trauma, have PTSD, have treatment for it, and then are fully healed - and not experience PTSD again in your lifetime.

I believe that IS possible.

Doctors don't say 'depression can be cured' but they do say it can be treated - and although someone who has had depression once is vulnerable to getting it again at some point in their life, not everyone does. I believe it is the same for PTSD. IU just think its' quite negative to imply we can't ever be free of it completely, and not have another experience of it ever.

 

[rightkindofme]

I'm 30 years into therapy. I don't feel cheerful about that, more resigned. I don't think I will be "cured."

Personally when people tell me I must attach because they want me to... I pull away. I attach because I feel compelled internally to attach. You telling me I "should" means I will run. That feels too dangerous to me.

 

[Alien Goodness]

My understanding is that trauma lays down strong neurological pathways in the brain. Somebody with PTSD gets trapped in these pathways, creating "deep grooves" that make it hard for the brain & body to follow a different pathway. Thus the sufferer gets stuck responding to lesser events as if it was the original trauma. Over time, a person may learn to response differently, laying down new pathways. However the original deep well-worn pathways always remain in the nervous system. Apparently, under pressure, the brain and body will default to the "deep grooves" laid down by trauma & PTSD. A person without PTSD has "shallow grooves" and is able to climb out of the trauma neurological pathways much sooner and without slipping back in so easily. This explains why an adult who grew up in a traumatizing environment over an extended period of time is less likely to recover than an adult who grew up in a "good-enough" home and later suffers from a one-off trauma event.

 

[Alien Goodness]

Personally when people tell me I must attach because they want me to... I pull away. I attach because I feel compelled internally to attach. You telling me I "should" means I will run. That feels too dangerous to me.

Thanks for this @rightkindofme - You have put into words an unease I have when told by partner and therapist to attach.

 

[WillyKat]

I agree that these grooves are laid down but that they can be resurfaced. (Boy, soon we'll be using car repair metaphors.)

I may make a separate thread because we're drifting away from the OP.

 

[In Exile]

When there's no or little pressure, the listening & communication works. But when it's a bad day, all the good intentions disappear and our default survival modes kick in. I wish I could f**king stop it, but the amygdala kicks in first. My need for space and time alone increases exponentially. And when stressed, my partner needs to check on me more frequently. I experience this as invasive and it triggers me. My partner is unwilling to let go & give me space as that's too scary.
(i.e. Detached vs. Anxious-Preoccupied using Attachment Theory language)

I have something similar, not exactly but close enough. My wife and I hit each others' triggers.

What I'm just starting to realize is that I have to actively take steps to decrease the pressure and to increase my capacity for dealing with stress.

Since you have children, I can use that as an example. You know when children get tired or hungry or a number of different factors, then they get cranky much easier? As a parent, your job is to make sure they get enough food and rest and if they do, then they are able to better handle the same situations.

My capacity for handling stresses is magnitudes larger when I am doing well, and so I need to find ways of proactively making sure I'm doing well. I'm getting into breathing exercises and meditation now. (It is really hard for me, though and I'm having to work hard at it. I had been avoiding working on it, but that's not working.)

I think that people who "get better" are proactive in creating and maintaining an environment with less stress. (Or lucky, but I don't think anyone can count on that.)

Do you have the same counselor or have you switch to different ones? How has that worked?

I had the same counselor for about 10 years, and I would go for a while, then stop and then go again. (Living in Asia, there weren't that many options. ) Like everything else, there aren't any hard and fast rules, but it's important to look at how the relationship is going. My therapist thought things were great because I wasn't able to tell him how I was feeling about the therapy.

My partner sees my triggers as my responsibility & is unwilling to change behaviour as believes the attachment behaviour is more normal than my avoidance. Partner, and therapist, believe that I should adopt more attaching (or secure) behaviours instead of detaching.

The devil is in the details. How do you detach? How does your partner attach? While you are saying that your partner is unwilling to change his behavior, aren't you saying that you don't want to (or can't) change yours and that his triggers are his responsibility? If I've got that wrong, then let me know.

 

[Alien Goodness]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and reply. You have given me stuff to think about and ponder. Haven't come to a decision yet, but the more information I have, the better decision I'll make.

 

[Mercy]

My understanding is that trauma lays down strong neurological pathways in the brain. Somebody with PTSD gets trapped in these pathways, creating "deep grooves" that make it hard for the brain & body to follow a different pathway.

I use the metaphor of branded. My traumas have been branded on my survival brain. I learned that those trauma reactions of flight, fight or freeze are all the only options which come forward with or without our voluntary choice. For example, I was in a hospital for serious expert bone surgery on my badly fractured ankle requiring 2 plates and many screws. It was a 9 hour operation. It required that all tissue that lies against the bone has to be scraped off. Most of that is nerve tissue. It is known to be very painful. Therefore, I was given morphine for a couple of days.

Maybe and hour or so out of recovery in that state, I heard the command,"Hit the dust" I acted on the command and dove off my bed and slid across the floor as far as I could, elevated ankle in a cast and all, IV's running. I guess someone was watching the TV in the next bed. She must have been watching something like Saving Private Ryan. I was not aware of anything. My trauma brain heard it and executed the command. I broke my wrist on that slide.

The New York Times newspaper wrote in the science section, that if the trauma is early in childhood and on going, the gene sequences that produce Seratonin and Dopamine are closed by genetic material which blocks them from being turned on and being replicated. Those genes have been turned off permanently. I think it is why so many of us experience depression and take SSRI's. I think is can be connected to loneliness, in ability to attach, a sense of not really belonging be it church, temple, or mosque. Like being alone even with friends, or a mate we hide within ourselves.

The experiment The NYT reported took place in England. They chose participants on the conditions of their childhoods. They chose children from Ireland who grew up in "The Troubles". They chose other children with 'normal' childhoods. They showed the groups some videos . A few days later. they showed still pictures from the videos they all had seen. The people were being filmed by a PET scan which measures the place and intensity of brain function. Their results showed that the hypocampus and the amygdila of the 'normal kids didn't light up. The frontal lobe, our thinking brain, was active immediately. For the people frrom "The Troubles" had thier hypocampus and amygdala lit up immediately. Their thinking brain lagged behind by 45 to 60 seconds after the image was shown. In a percieved dangerous situation, we are flooded with chemicals like adrenalin and may react before we can even think about how we would like to act.

My hopes are raised when I read testimonies from PTSD sufferers who say they no longer experience triggering.

Therapy is a very good thing to do. IT can help in many ways. I too am trigger by criticism, fault finding blaming....the list goes on. I think you will find that therapy which focuses on your good qualities and rebuilds your self-esteem and self-image very important.

There is a thread on this ptrd forum called the Happiness Project. It is really great. The project asks us to find three different things that we are grateful for. It may be as simple as sunshine through leaves. A bit of journaling about what you saw in the first part. A short paragraph is good, They also try to practice random acts of kindess every day like holding a door open. Next is some exercise as each of us is able. And the last one is prayer or meditation. I started my meditation slowly for two minutes and ramped up to 10 or 15 min. a day. My attitude towards being alive has changed radically. I used to be on the look out for stressors and triggers..hypervigilant. Now I am on the lookout for beautiful things. In that sense, we can learn to live less stressfully. With less stress, that angery and nasty male voice will not jab into you so hard. Eventually, I believe there will come a time when his stuff sticks to him and not to you at all...like water off a duck, fried egg in butter, snow sliding off the roof......