Sexual Assault Am I Nuts To Consider The Nurses Rapists

[Tigergirl1217]

I don't think anyone who has replied has taken offence. Just an offering of different perspectives that c...

That's all I wanted :)

 

[Friday]

It may have felt like rape to you and nobody can tell you what it should or shouldn't have felt like. It sounds torturous, for certain. I think the idea is to work through the 'feeling of having been raped', to what lies under that, which may consist of many layers. Powerlessness for certain, authority may play in and so on. Whatever it is, you did not feel the intention of 'helpfulness' (and nor did I). The ideas above are good though in so much as you don't want to stay stuck and dwell on the 'rape' (and there are many ways of raping, including one's soul). Never stay stuck..... always keep moving.... looking for what is underneath.

I think that's the thing / where metaphors & similes trip people up:

What are the pieces that are like rape? Powerlessness, violated, pain, etc.

Of course... Those are also pieces in home invasions, hostage situations, fraud, etc... and the nurses aren't burglars, bank robbers, conmen, etc., just like they aren't rapists and child molesters.

When we hyper focus on what a thing is like? It's far too easy, IME, to miss what actually makes the thing itself tick. There's also the fact that It's easier to think of something we haven't been through, and relate it to that. It creates a distance for us. Meanwhile, if we've been through this other thing we're relating it to? It's even harder to untangle a lot of the time... Because the similarities act as triggers, linking the two events, even where there's no similarity. Aside from the torture v medical trauma example up above... Something more common would be: Like when someone is yelling at you because there's danger? Vastly different between that and being yelled at abusively. But the yelling in and of itself can link the two events, making one seem abusive, when the opposite is true; to not yell would be abusive/neglectful. Oh trauma responses. :wtf:

@Tigergirl1217 ... If you've been raped, molested, etc.? Then I would suggest you use those two events to compare / contrast (rather than merge). Look for the similarities that are linking them... But also to look for the differences. Where these 2 events are wildly different from each other. There will be BigBad in both that simply don't exist in the other.

If you haven't been raped/molested? I'd suggest dropping the metaphor/simile. It's not about causing offense. It's about the unique facets that are part of all traumas. Being able to see and deal with what's actually there.

There are commonalities across most traumas. Combat & DV, for example... Periods of boredom tend to affect both groups of people, because bored? Means something bad is coming. Don't know when, or where, but it's coming. Does that mean being in an abusive relationship is like being in combat? Nope. Not at all. They're very different from each other. People who've been raped or held hostage, meanwhile, don't usually have the bored-thing as part of their trauma stuff they have to deal with, although it's possible. But there are other links. All 4 of those CritA traumas? Have links to each other. But none of them are "like" any other one. They're unique themselves.

<grin> One of the awesome things about this forum is that by taking a step back, we can use the similarities to help each other. Similarities can be durn useful, especially dealt with piece by piece. Or they can muddy everything beyond recognition. That's my piece of warning, whether you have other traumas or not; being careful not to obscure 1 with another. :)

 

[scout86]

because bored? Means something bad is coming.

This has nothing I can think of to do with the original post, but Friday, you've once again pointed out something I hadn't noticed, but now that I have...... Interesting! :cool:

 

[The Albatross]

I'd had some medical trauma... but tend more to give credibility to the fact that it was medically necessary than what my child impressions were. I almost died. Rapists? Nope... well meaning staff following a doctors order has been more beneficial for me in the longer term. Nurses do not "enjoy" invasive procedures on non compliant person. I think I would "refute"/or question the "smiling" thing.

 

[shimmerz]

Nurses do not "enjoy" invasive procedures on non compliant person. I think I would "refute"/or question the "smiling" thing.

What????? How does anyone know whether this nurse enjoyed it or not? Can nurses not be sadistic assholes?

Most of us have struggled with the 'I can't believe this happened to me' part of PTSD. 'It couldn't be true' is a huge block to get through when healing. But who is someone else to negate the impressions/experiences of the OP?

Although we would like to think they should be, NOT all parents are good, kind or loving people. Nor are all doctors and nurses.

 

[Tigergirl1217]

@shimmerz Yes exactly! Like parents nurses can be pedophiles. This is why people don't report these incidents because they think all the professionals should be "good guys "

 

[Friday]

What????? How does anyone know whether this nurse enjoyed it or not? Can nurses not be sadistic assholes?

The OP asked for different experiences/perspectives, as well as ways to get out of a child's mind / black & white thinking.

I just wanted others prospective on this. I am working on getting out of the little girl mind,

@The Albatross presented a different perspective... That the nurse may have been smiling for a different reason than a 6yo thought. ((Most kids? Have a very pernicious belief that anyone who hurts them meant to & liked it. As a mom, you probably remember parenting those years! Oy vey. Explaining what an accident is ; neither the other kids fault nor theirs takes *years*))

What are other reasons nurses smile during a procedure? Sure, one of them could theoretically be that they're a sadistic predator who has gone into medicine in order to get off on causing children pain. Possible? Yes. Likely? Nope! So in challenging a child's view that anyone who hurts me meant to/ wanted to ...If most nurses aren't sadistic predators, so it's unlikely the team working on her were all Big Meanies BadBadBad They LIKED hurting me, because I hurt and they were smiling...

Is it common for nurses/doctors to smile during difficult procedures? Yep. Absolutely. Especially with kids. ((As opposed to: No. They don't. Giant red flag.)) If it's common, why? What are the common reasons?
- to reassure a patient,
- to project calm,
- trained to,
- thrilled that something is going right or easy with a difficult procedure,
- thrilled that it's almost over or they think it is,
- a nice surprise (and in medicine, nice surprises are wildly different than other people might consider "nice". Like "Yes! The bone sheared off below the joint!!!" While in other areas it's OMFG, You poor thing! You've had your leg cut off!)
- nervousness,
- apology,
- excited to be doing a procedure,
- an attaboy from your mentor as you do a procedure well,
- trying not to cry,
- et cetera all job-related...

As well as all the oops :banghead: things that happen under stress like;
- remembering the kind words of your spouse this morning,
- the funny line to a joke,
- feeling your baby kick,
- any of the hundreds of possibilities of what runs through someone's mind while busy doing something else.

To be clear, I'm not saying the staff were saints or demons. Could have been either. But challenging your 6yo view of a one time event with an adult mind? It's just good sense to do so! Whether it's a 6yo blaming themselves because their parents told them it was their fault, or demonizing anyone who hurts them; even if in retrospect it was an accident or necessary even if terrible.

Just because a kid can be wrong about the motivation of a person involved in their trauma ((my daddy loves me (rapist), the bus driver was trying to run us off the road (fell asleep), my doctor enjoyed hurting me (happy they have the smaller catheter in stock), the dog knew I was bad for watching a movie I wasn't supposed to (dog), etc.)) doesn't mean the trauma didn't happen.

 

[bluebird]

I am just saying that we should be extra careful with children when it comes to medical procedures and also know that our actions on children can haunt them even though to us it is no big deal

Hi, as a medical professional-to-be, I can see - even from my limited point of view - that there is a tendency to minimise the harm from invasive procedures, especially when one is dealing with children. Many painful examinations and forms of treatment are performed in anaesthesis now, which is really great. Doctors and nurses are educated how to act when they are about to perform something painful on children. I think this has gotten much better. Years ago, dying newborns were taken away from their mothers, who were told they were dead already. Nowadays, the mother has a chance to see her baby and spend the little time with her child, which is much better. Or - remember tonsilectomy? It used to be performed only in local anaesthesis, now, the child just goes to sleep and wakes up after the surgery is done. Or if a child eats a coin or something like that, she is also put to sleep and the foerign body is removed without her feeling anything unpleasant.There are better drugs to deal with pain, doctors are more skilled in prescribing them...

It is terrible, but performing the same procedures on patients over and over again, having to deal with the pain they are causing in order to help, might kind of shuts the empathy of nurses and doctors down. (Of course, some of them might had no empathy to start with, but I hope it´s a minority. These nurses might have been sadistic, but I can not tell). This is certainly a mistake. A mistake that should not happen, because the patients are hurt more than neccessary. The trauma becomes far more bigger than it was supposed to be.

I still see there is kind of a hole in the system of education, doctors and nurses often do not have enough skills to handle doing their job, which is sad. Very sad. I think I can see that things got much better, there are some psychology lessons during the study of medical care proffesionals, which is a good sign. Another issue is time. Doctors are supposed to explain everything to the patient. In reality? There is very little time to do so. I can see many good doctors unable to explain things to patients properly, because they are pushed to examine and treat more patients a day than possible, plus - to write everything down. It would definitely be much better if there were more doctors, more nurses - but there aren´t. Peolpe have to go home earlier that they should, because there is not enough capacity in the hospitals.It would be much better if there were more, but there isn´t.

The doctor should have explained to you - you were six, which is old enough to understand, asked your parents to sooth you... These were mistakes. Mistakes that often happen, due to lack of time, lack of empathy. Mistakes that should not have happened.

This procedure was neccessary for your health. What was NOT neccessary, was the approach of those who performed it.
The feelings you had were - and are - valid. There is nothing wrong with your emotions. You felt hurt beyond your imagination, confused, lalone, aughed at. These are things you should work on in therapy. Do not ignore the voice of the little child - she was hurt and now she wants to be listened to. She deserves to find her own voice.

 

[Fadeaway]

I was assaulted and injured when I was two. I don't remember it, but I do remember the E.R. visit afterwards. I remember being held down while the Dr. did stitches without anaesthesia. In my memory and my feelings, it feels like sexual assault. It may have been medical trauma, but given the nature of the medical trauma, I have a hard time viewing it as anything other than sexual trauma.

This thread however, has given me some things to look at. Still to this day I want to track that Dr. down and tell him what an incompetent moron he was for dealing with a child that way. There is more anger than fear and when I really look at, the way I would confront that Dr. is not the same way I would confront an abuser. Hmmmm.

 

[shimmerz]

Nurses do not "enjoy" invasive procedures on non compliant person.

It was actually this I took exception to, which is why I bolded and highlighted it. It has been my experience, more than once, that indeed, nurses can be and will act upon sadistic tendencies. The medical profession can also be ignorant and callous. That doesn't make it a fact that all nurses are sadistic, callous and ignorant. This quoted text was put across as a statement of fact. Many of us have experienced medical trauma that was actually abusive, agonizing and terrifying in its execution. This statement minimizes and actually denies our experiences.

Doctors and nurses are educated how to act when they are about to perform something painful on children.

Yes, this ^^^. As an infant I was operated on without anesthetic. It was a rip and shred operation with 8 weeks at least of frequent aggravated pain in the mix. Understanding that children actually feel, sense, get frightened and terrified .... are human beings, would go an awfully long way.

I can tell you from my experience as a almost 50 year old, when those nurses 'punished' me with the catheter it felt like a sexual assault. Why wouldn't it? Someone is sticking things 'in that place' that nobody is supposed to touch. And I did report this assault but nobody believed me because I was deemed 'psychotic'. Most likely for just that reason.

 

[Ronin]

This statement minimizes and actually denies our experiences.

Does it though, as saying X category as a blanket statement, doesn't usually mean harm, is not saying ALL of that category don't mean harm, or do harm while not specifically intending on it. I don't see how saying 'nurses, on most, are OK and not perpetrators' says 'nurses are never perpetrators' or 'to those of you who had them as perps, they weren't ones'.

It's an equivalent of a statement 'most people are good people'. It doesn't speak of those bad people around, or say all people are good; it's simply saying, the world isn't a place with just dangers in it, everywhere you go. It's, if anything, paranoia toning-down kind of a statement, and not jumping from healthy hypervigilance to unhealthy one to paranoia and possibly psychotic levels of PTSD because of that anxiety, is not a bad thing to try to do for other members.

(I hope I didn't get lost in triple negatives. Tired, will edit/clarify when less medicated)

 

[GWhizz]

While it was very traumatic for you; it is not rape. There are many times medical staff have to perform pr...

Thank you for this comment!

I'm a nurse and I've had colleagues accused of rape for doing wound dressings with consent! As someone who has ptsd from rape and who is a nurse, I can tell you, no nurse would insert a catheter into a child without parental consent and a parent holding that child's hand. If you're parent / guardian wasn't there, did they not immediately complain? You also said they were tests. Assuming these tests were elective, no?

Bottom line, you may have felt scared, traumatised and violated, but please don't compare it to the literal definition of rape. It is something completely different. I've suffered many forms of abuse. But rape was rape. I'm not saying other forms of abuse are not as damaging or any better/worse. They just are different and I think the op could have approached this in a completely different manner and actually gotten more effective and responsive feedback.