Any Ideas?

[EvenStrongerNow]

So, as you know, I havent gotten a job yet.

I am having a vicious sleep cycle issue the past couple of months. I get tired around 9 or 10 pm but cant sleep. I will stay up until 4 or 5 am and sleep until 2 or 3.

I know it is normal to sleep after you just stayed up a long time but the problem is, in the past when is has happened, if I stayed up without a nap, I could go to sleep early the next night and get back on track. That doesnt work now.

I have tried that but i end up staying up until 3 or 4 am and sleeping all day. On the weekends, when my husband is at home, I will get up early no matter what time I have stayed up until. I will be tired but I will still stay up very late again. If there is something very important to get up for like a job interview or an appointment, I will wake up early and then stay up again.

I have tried benadryl and sleep time tea. They do make me very drowsy, but for some reason, my brain fights it and I stay up past it. It has never been this bad. The worst part is when my monthly cycle comes, it gets worse.

I am tired a lot. I am not having any mental symptoms of depression so Im not quite sure what is going on?

 

[The Albatross]

Exercise, a vital daytime interest of some sort, and a daytime commitment.

 

[The Albatross]

How are you occupying your time until 4-5 a.m.? Nix it.

 

[Venusian]

I wonder if this could be a symptom of SAD (seasonal affective disorder) if you aren't depressed, sometimes it doesn't develop into depression. Having a "daylight" lamp shining on you for a while, about 30 minutes an hour or two before you want to go to bed. Once you turn it off try and keep the light dim for that hour or two before bedtime. On the internet the recommended therapy is to use it in the morning but I have had luck doing this in the evening since I got my lamp a few months ago. I don't think I have SAD but I was having a hard time getting to sleep and it wasn't all the PTSD. In the arctic there are a lot of people that have a hard time regulating their internal clock and it is usually the people that have just moved there. By using these lamps or blackout blinds you can trick your mind into getting back on track. It doesn't work for everyone but enough that most people gave it a try.

 

[franciemarnie]

I'm on the same schedule as you. I'm exhausted right now, but if tonight is like every night, it will be 3,4, or 5 until sleep.

I feel like my brain needs those hours when no one is around to assure itself that everything is safe or something. Everything is safe, but you know our brains are still back long ago. Mine is anyway even though all is well in real time.

The only thing that can get me to sleep early is this ghost show I watch. I've seen every episode a zillion times but without fail it will do the trick - if I will watch it.

Back in trauma time, everything was safe by 3 or 4 am.

Workouts help, but the ghost show works for me. Sleep aids don't.

 

[EverOnly358]

Hey Stronger Now,

This happens to me all the time. I'm bipolar, so when I'm depressed, my sleep schedule can totally flip... where I'm sleeping all day and I'm awake all night. Then when I'm really manic, I can't sleep more than 3 hours a night, if that. I agree with FrancieMarnie... I always feel like the time between 1am and 7am is safe and dark and quiet and good.

Anywho, this is just a long list of things I've tried... don't try to do them all at once unless you're a stupid overachiever like me, ha! (*Kidding*)

Exercise during the day, as much as possible (this is the biggest help)
Try to give yourself a reason, every single morning, to have to get up at a certain time (I find this impossible... but I know it does work)
Drink lots of water
Take vitamins
Get 30+ minutes of sunlight daily (the lamps work, too)
You're not supposed to do anything but sleep (and, well... uh-huh ;) ) in your bedroom... I find this impossible, since I tend to isolate myself in my room, so it's kinda like a little apartment for me, but whatever; there's something to making your bedroom a retreat to rest and relax in
Cover all electronics, any light source with whatever when you're trying to sleep... especially blue light (like on TV's, DVD players, cable boxes, etc.) which your eyes can sense even when they're closed... and those blue lights send the signal to your brain to be awake (just like sunlight)
Listen to meditation recordings... there was one I listened to for awhile, even though she had an annoying voice, it seemed to do the trick (try looking on YouTube for options)
Hot tea is good, that SleepyTime stuff (and like, don't drink SleepyTime tea unless you really want to get to sleep... because like, I drank it once before a huge party when 80 people were coming to our house and I was stressed, and I feel asleep in a chair while putting the finishing touches on everything for the party... this was years ago, but still, good to remember)
Benedryl works, but only for awhile; Melatonin works, but only for awhile... I've been playing with the idea of going back and forth with these
Reading always works for me (gets me out of my head, so it's easier to relax and sleep)
Watching TV works sometimes (Disney movies are especially my favorite, yeah, I never really grew up ;) )
White noise is key for me... I prefer a fan (I like constant air movement, too), but rain sound CD's are good, too; some people like ocean waves, but y'know, I'm allergic to sand, so... ;)
Turn the temperature down in your house at night (if possible), because a colder temperature tells your body it's time to sleep

I'm sure I could come up with more... but this should get you started. And, just saying, I try to do all these things, and I have enormous problems sleeping all the time. Better lately, but everything's been different lately, so... ;)

Hope this helps at least a little bit,
D

 

[franciemarnie]

D123 reminded me of something I did but forgot the last three weeks. She was saying meditation tape which brought to mind binaural beats. I downloaded them from ITunes a while ago on my IPod. It's mostly music but also portions sound like rain, etc. and underneath there is a beat that matches Alpha, Delta or Theta brainwaves. It is supposed to put your brain in those states so you can relax or sleep. There are different sounds happening in right and left ears to confuse your brain's left and right sides.

I've been so tired, I forgot about them. Thanks D123! They have put me to sleep before, but most of the time they slow my thoughts way way down and I get quiet inside. I take them off and can often sleep then.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

Exercise, a vital daytime interest of some sort, and a daytime commitment.

I do exercise.....and about what I occupy my time with late at night, I dont. I just lay in bed trying to sleep. At some point though, I have to get up, try reading, etc so I am not associating my bed with no sleep.

I get sun light every day, make my bed when I get up from sleep. I don't hang out in my bedroom at all.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

I didn't experience this until PTSD set in. I remember the first wave of sleep problems during the trauma. I had never experienced cycle related insomnia prior either.

In the past, prior to the trauma that triggered PTSD, I had some sleep trouble here and there but taking a sleep aid or staying up and going to bed early the next night solved it. Sleep wasn't an issue.

So Im at a loss. I have even gotten to the point where i am aware of the performance anxiety that can be involved with sleep so I do things to combat that by telling myself it is okay and embrace it.

Im just sick of the cycle is all. I feel like I am on alert at night or something.

 

[Hashi]

I had very bad insomnia for years. I really agree with D123's suggestions. Except maybe for watching TV, which I think is a tricky one. The light and the flickering, plus the amount of stimulus, aren't usually recommended for getting to sleep. Having said that, I think the element of following a story is helpful. I'd suggest listening to an audiobook instead.

I think with insomnia we tend to focus on the time we go to bed more than the time we get up, but the time we get up (and stay up) is really important. It's important to avoid that netherland of waking nights and whole mornings slept away, and to avoid napping during the day as a habit. For me, this was connected to dissociative tendencies. It was another way to be apart from the rest of the world.

I'd suggest you focus on getting up at an earlier, regular (not varying) time and then staying up during the day through the tiredness. I've found this is what works along with the other strategies like baths, scents, maybe herbal supplements or melatonin, and routines like reading a few pages of a book when you get into bed.

If you're not sleeping alone, you can use things like headphones and a clip-on book light for reading.

In the end, it does come down to following the strategies. I know it's tempting to spend just one more night up rather than staying in bed not falling asleep, but then there are an awful lot of one more nights.

If staying up is related to feeling unsafe then listening to relaxation audios (or binaural beats like francimarnie) can be especially helpful. I think anything that's for relaxation is good, anyway, because even if you're not sleeping you're resting and doing yourself some good.

 

[franciemarnie]

This might be way out there, but I wonder where your hormones are at. You're not anywhere near perimenopause, but hormones - not just stress hormones - effect our sleep.

You started the post saying you haven't gotten a job yet. I wonder if this is weighing on you more than you know.

I've had a couple issues lately with new financial endeavors. They were hopping along nicely until a couple weeks ago and my sleep started to slip back to the hours you are having now.

I mean I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that could be a reason why your schedule slipped a bit. Concern about work.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

Those are great tips Hashi. Thanks. I will try them.

Francie, that could be. Thats what my husband says anyway. This cycle started before my last job, some time in March. I got up and went to work on time every day I was supposed to. I had a couple of days off every week. On those days off, the cycle continued and even some nights of work but I got up and went any way. I became quite exhausted after awhile.

I wonder if it is some type of SAD. Is this also PTSD related?

I suppose it could be hormone related as well. Eventually, I will get in to see an OBGYN. We will have insurance before the end of the year. I have been under stress lately with job loss, our dog is sick, my dad had a stroke and he just got into a motorcycle accident. Stuff going on with family, etc.

Maybe subconsciously I am staying up all night because I can. Maybe it is another way to control something from feeling out of control in childhood and my last trauma?