Other Aspergers?

[mumstheword]

I remember thinking, as a kid, that adults treat us kids as if we have no feelings, but, in fact, the opposite is, true, we feel things much more intensely.

I did learn to dissociate though, it was the only way to survive and not be driven totally insane.

I retreated into my mind, but my body broke down, eventually, all the abuse very nearly took my life.

I met my Aspie (now) boyfriend and the ice of my frozen shocked emotions began to melt. He is the only one that I have met that is truly worthy of my trust

Now, I am too sensitive again. People are too much. I have to protect myself from their callousness and their fear and judgement.

I wish I could meet more kind and trustworthy people of integrity. It's not that I have no empathy, it's that I am too sensitive. Too sensorily raw. And too logical and honest.

 

[blackemerald1]

Now, I am too sensitive again. People are to much. I have too protect myself from their callousness and their fear and judgement.

^^Not wanting to detract from your topic @mumstheword - but these issue's are also found with ptsd sufferer's. Being overly sensitive to things, too honest, too raw. A lot of the time I feel like ptsd has lifted the 'veil' on life and people and it's a little too much. So, being naturally inclined that way and having pstd must be even more difficult?

 

[Abstract]

It's not that I have no empathy, it's that I am too sensitive. T

I have always thought of you as a sensitive caring person.

Theory of Mind — Whose?

Sensitivity has zero to do with Theory Of Mind. I always feel a bit sad that people think theory of mind is about caring, compassion, emotion or kindness/lack of kindness. It has zero to do with it.Sociopaths usually have masses of theory of mind. It only relates to the mind reading. It doesn't relate to the caring, emotion, mimicking emotion etc. Sociapaths can usually figure people out perfectly. They just don't care about harming them. Its strange that all those articles seem to have this wrong.They are talking about theory of mind but the content of what they are discussing includes Emotional Empathy. A different thing.

Half of what they are alluding to is Emotional Empathy which as far as I understand has never been linked to the spectrum.

Very interesting that Theory of Mind may not be relevant. I always understood the sensory overwhelm aspect of things. Wonder where the social discord comes in if Theory Of Mind is not an issue. Do you have any ideas?

No pressure to answer but can you know what facial expression goes with what situation and how someone will feel in response to what you say?

So far you aren't describing things that are specific to the spectrum as far as my limited understanding runs. Not saying its not accurate of course. Just pointing that out. I would describe my way of coping and my reaction growing up in exactly the same way.

No one in your family has an official diagnosed of being on the spectrum at present so I hope one of you can at least get properly assessed. Certainly understand slipping through the net. Suspect I am undiagnosed ADD. Probably with a little dislexia thrown in for good measure.

 

[Abstract]

This seems like a good resource:
"Who cares? Or: The Truth about Empathy in Individuals of the Autism Spectrum," researcher Isabel Dziobek

 

[Reflections]

There may be cheaper options for an official diagnosis. A family member of mine was diagnosed with Autism as an adult. While it cost a lot, it was closer to $800. So if it's important to you, there are options.

Whether you have a diagnosis or not, you can still seek out a therapy whether someone who is knowledgeable in ASD or who is very validating and willing to work with you.

Now, I am too sensitive again. People are to much. I have too protect myself from their callousness and their fear and judgement.

I wish I could meet more kind and trustworthy people of integrity. It's not that I have no empathy, it's that I am too sensitive. Too sensorily raw. And too logical and honest.

I relate a lot, maybe just in my own way. I don't think I'm on the spectrum (I've taken online evaluation nor do believe it fits), but I have a callous, logical side to myself that keeps me safe. Without it, I'm too vulnerable. Moreover, I am deeply afraid of unhealthy people. I can get overwhelmed by sensory stimuli. I am a very sensitive and emotional person, it's hard to deal with because I was never taught how to cope much less identify and know my emotions.

Therapy can help with this. Emotional regulation can be learned. Coping skills can be learned. You may always be a sensitive, honest, autistic, etc but you can learn more effective ways to do social situations and relationships.

 

[mumstheword]

I have always thought of you as a sensitive caring person.


Sensitivity has zero to do with Theory Of Mind. I always feel a bit sad that people think theory of mind is about caring, compassion, emotion or kindness/lack of kindness. It has zero to do with it.Sociopaths usually have masses of theory of mind. It only relates to the mind reading. It doesn't relate to the caring, emotion, mimicking emotion etc. Sociapaths can usually figure people out perfectly. They just don't care about harming them. Its strange that all those articles seem to have this wrong.They are talking about theory of mind but the content of what they are discussing includes Emotional Empathy. A different thing.

Half of what they are alluding to is Emotional Empathy which as far as I understand has never been linked to the spectrum.

Very interesting that Theory of Mind may not be relevant. I always understood the sensory overwhelm aspect of things. Wonder where the social discord comes in if Theory Of Mind is not an issue. Do you have any ideas?

No pressure to answer but can you know what facial expression goes with what situation and how someone will feel in response to what you say?

So far you aren't describing things that are specific to the spectrum as far as my limited understanding runs. Not saying its not accurate of course. Just pointing that out. I would describe my way of coping and my reaction growing up in exactly the same way.

No one in your family has an official diagnosed of being on the spectrum at present so I hope one of you can at least get properly assessed. Certainly understand slipping through the net. Suspect I am undiagnosed ADD. Probably with a little dislexia thrown in for good measure.

I think theory of mind can and does come into it, but what I think these articles are pointing to, is that the bulk of NT's that are perpetuating the assessments and analysis (the psychologists like Baron--Cohen) don't have an adequate Theory of Mind of people on the spectrum and that perpetuating the myth that those that are on the spectrum, have no empathy, as a result of their "Sally Anne test", is hurtful and harmful.

As soon as I learnt to read, I had my head stuck in a book, every moment I possibly could. I favoured fiction. Looking back now, I think it's because I had no innate clue of Theory of Mind, I was trying to make sense of people, through stories. I read excessively. I remember being about nine, and reading, on average, a novel a day.
It's not that I am incapable of Theory of Mind, it's just a painfully, long-winded learning curve that I have to work on, very studiously and even then, for the most part, I doubt myself.


Both my guy and I were stuck in relationships where we were getting horribly abused, for YEARS, and we naively thought that setting examples and being "good" to them, would be the way to get them to love us and treat us well. We niavely thought people were honest until we experienced being lied to and about, A LOT.

Also, I did know how to lie, I tried it out one day, but I felt so uncomfortable that I decided I didn't want to do that. I was five.

I think the objection is of the Sally Anne test as a Theory of Mind tell, I think that is what is in question and being criticised. I think it's all a bit simplistic and black and white-thinking cognitively distorted: the assumptions that follow, can.be really wrong, is all. It's a huge spectrum and that test needs to be refined. The Neurotypical testers need to develop a more workable Theory of Mind about our ASD Theory of mind, because we understand (some) other's on the spectrum much.better than we do NT's and other neurodiverse minds.

You know, the reason I didn't even suspect (well I did suspect) that I was on the spectrum was because I put all my difficulties down to the PTSD. I'm still confused about it all, but I'm fitting in.very well on the Autism and Aspergers forum.

I will talk to.my pdoc when I get into hospital, going in on the 24th of this month.
Thanks for the support and feedback @Abstract :).and @blackemerald1.

 

[NatBird]

Hi @mumstheword

Yes can relate. I experience challenges with socialization, connection and communicating that some on the AS experience.

It was a relief when discovered my AS, ah ahaaaaa! A few friends on the spectrum had been telling me I was on the spectrum for a while but I just dismissed it.

Then came the upset, sadness, loss, confusion, anger. The acceptance.

Then I started to think about diagnosis and what difference it would make.
I decided I didn't need a diagnosis I just use what I understand about how it works to try to better support and meet my needs. It's good to know what I am working with, particularly so I can give others a clearer sense of what they are working with! It's beautiful to have another lens to look at me through and one that draws out of me some kindness and understanding.

I'm not keen to use the Aspergers (even though this is what would likely be diagnosed with) because of the history, the person who named it etc. Also reluctant to encourage/get involved in exclusivity, I have witnessed how damaging this can be for people at other points on the spectrum. I'm all about celebrating making the connection and finding another space to belong, take root, gain deeper innerstanding.

Interestingly, I am just looking up weighted blankets, I need some in my life - sleeping with a mattress on top probably isn't the most safest thing!

I am curious as to whether I have always been in the spectrum or it developed at a certain point due to an overload of trauma. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[mumstheword]

There may be cheaper options for an official diagnosis. A family member of mine was diagnosed with Autism as an adult. While it cost a lot, it was closer to $800. So if it's important to you, there are options.

Whether you have a diagnosis or not, you can still seek out a therapy whether someone who is knowledgeable in ASD or who is very validating and willing to work with you.

I relate a lot, maybe just in my own way. I don't think I'm on the spectrum (I've taken online evaluation nor do believe it fits), but I have a callous, logical side to myself that keeps me safe. Without it, I'm too vulnerable. Moreover, I am deeply afraid of unhealthy people. I can get overwhelmed by sensory stimuli. I am a very sensitive and emotional person, it's hard to deal with because I was never taught how to cope much less identify and know my emotions.

Therapy can help with this. Emotional regulation can be learned. Coping skills can be learned. You may always be a sensitive, honest, autistic, etc but you can learn more effective ways to do social situations and relationships.

I agree. Therapy helps a lot. Absolutely essential. I will need plenty more of it for a lot more years to come. Now that I strongly suspect my issues co-stem with ASD high functioning Aspergers, I will need to get some therapy tailored to those particular challenges. No small feat. I have stopped giving myself a hard time about my people aversion. I figure that doesn't help and it's a logucal and natural consequence of everything I have experienced and continue to experience, thus far.

I find freedom in the written word. I can express myself in written words much more ablely than spoken, but at the same time, I've worked very diligently to overcome my speech deficits and I am quite proud of how far I've come, there.

Thanks for the hope-giving info about possible cheaper diagnosis. I need to find a competant knowledgable assessor though. Aspie women are much harder to diagnose. We often blend in and mask far more effectively than our male counterparts, as females are wired for social cohersion much more than males and thus Aspie women often pour a lot of effort into learning, intellectually, how to "pass" and we do a fine job of it, in many cases
Tony Attwood totally gets it, that's why I want him. Anyway, I do still want to do the officializing tests, in a way; though, at my age, one does wonder what the point really is.
I think it would be vindicating though. Us Aspie's thrive with certainty. We like to know facts and get a grasp of things in an intellectual way, so having the diagnosis would help me feel a greater sense of security about who I am. I'm a little scared of erroneous diagnosises though, as I have been misdiagnosed before and it really, really messed with me, badly. So, if they said I don't pass and I know in my heart that I am Aspie, well, I'm a bit scared of that. I already got told I couldn't be Aspie because I have too much empathy and that was just plain wrong.

Hi @mumstheword

Yes can relate. I experience challenges with socialization, connection and communicating that some on the AS experience.

It was a relief when discovered my AS, ah ahaaaaa! A few friends on the spectrum had been telling me I was on the spectrum for a while but I just dismissed it.

Then came the upset, sadness, loss, confusion, anger. The acceptance.

Then I started to think about diagnosis and what difference it would make.
I decided I didn't need a diagnosis I just use what I understand about how it works to try to better support and meet my needs. It's good to know what I am working with, particularly so I can give others a clearer sense of what they are working with! It's beautiful to have another lens to look at me through and one that draws out of me some kindness and understanding.

I'm not keen to use the Aspergers (even though this is what would likely be diagnosed with) because of the history, the person who named it etc. Also reluctant to encourage/get involved in exclusivity, I have witnessed how damaging this can be for people at other points on the spectrum. I'm all about celebrating making the connection and finding another space to belong, take root, gain deeper innerstanding.

Interestingly, I am just looking up weighted blankets, I need some in my life - sleeping with a mattress on top probably isn't the most safest thing!

I am curious as to whether I have always been in the spectrum or it developed at a certain point due to an overload of trauma. What are your thoughts on this?

From what I understand, it's purely genetic. Of course knowing what we now know about Epigenetics, socialization can exacerbate or nullify our genetic tendencies, so the neglect and abuse we both experienced would have exacerbated the difficulties in socialising and affected our brains in adverse ways.

I grew up utterly terrified of people in general, also found people depressing and confusing and ended up spending an extra 20 years with someone who treated me very sociopathically, so yeah, we were born with genes that probably required some extra help working socializing stuff out, and instead got shocking conditions that made things a lot harder. That's my take on it, anyway.

 

[Abstract]

I can very well see the terrible hurt of that: it feeling simplistic ; the common misconceptions around empathy and not feeling compassion or caring feeling very hurtful, etc mum. Regardless of the rest.

It sounds like you are on the right track.

Although I am not on the spectrum I always relate to a lot of the feelings or stuff around Autistic Spectrum stuff whilst of course knowing I cant fully relate. No one can truly understand something ever unless they have experienced it themselves.

 

[mumstheword]

Hi @mumstheword

Yes can relate. I experience challenges with socialization, connection and communicating that some on the AS experience.

It was a relief when discovered my AS, ah ahaaaaa! A few friends on the spectrum had been telling me I was on the spectrum for a while but I just dismissed it.

Then came the upset, sadness, loss, confusion, anger. The acceptance.

Then I started to think about diagnosis and what difference it would make.
I decided I didn't need a diagnosis I just use what I understand about how it works to try to better support and meet my needs. It's good to know what I am working with, particularly so I can give others a clearer sense of what they are working with! It's beautiful to have another lens to look at me through and one that draws out of me some kindness and understanding.

I'm not keen to use the Aspergers (even though this is what would likely be diagnosed with) because of the history, the person who named it etc. Also reluctant to encourage/get involved in exclusivity, I have witnessed how damaging this can be for people at other points on the spectrum. I'm all about celebrating making the connection and finding another space to belong, take root, gain deeper innerstanding.

Interestingly, I am just looking up weighted blankets, I need some in my life - sleeping with a mattress on top probably isn't the most safest thing!

I am curious as to whether I have always been in the spectrum or it developed at a certain point due to an overload of trauma. What are your thoughts on this?

As for not wanting to be associated with the man who's name it's been given, I haven't really read into it, or given it much thought, but I think, diagnostically, his name has already been given the flick, from what I've heard the latest DSM manual simply calls it High Functioning ASD.
Some just call it "HFA" - High Fuctioning Autism.
I get what you mean about exclusivity. I don't want that. I just want to make friends and mix with people I "click" with.

I feel at home here, which is absolutely HUGE.
I'm also feeling pretty comfy over at Autism Central, with some of the folk there. My two best girlfriends here, where I live, one identifies as Aspie, the other I strongly suspect is. I wish I could make more friends in the general population. It's a work in progress.

 

[Eagle3]

Hi, another Aspie with PTSD here too. I'm also on Autism Central, great place!

Yeah, figuring out what symptoms to contribute to which issue is tough, but its also interesting to note how the Autism contributed to the trauma. This could take a life-time to work out, and integrate...but I found out comparatively early.

Welcome to the boards!

 

[mumstheword]

Hi, another Aspie with PTSD here too. I'm also on Autism Central, great place!

Yeah, figuring out what symptoms to contribute to which issue is tough, but its also interesting to note how the Autism contributed to the trauma. This could take a life-time to work out, and integrate...but I found out comparatively early.

Welcome to the boards!

Hi Eagle3 :) I wanted to wait until my mind/brain recalibrated before answering, because I had a very social day yesterday and the day before and I get very tired-in-the-head from that, so I didn't know how to reply, but I didn't want to leave it, so, here goes ...
Thanks for the welcome to AC :) It feels good to have found it and great to get welcomed.
As for the working out about what part trauma and what part Autism and how each has played into the other, I totally agree. I find myself wondering and thinking past experiences through, with new eyes, informed by realizing my HFA now, and requestioning a lot. And yeah, I might be pondering this for many, many years to come.
I want to think of more questions that might help, but my brain feels sooop tired from interacting with new people, yesterday, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks though. @Eagle3