Bad Day In My Marriage

[Leah123]

Aww, thanks everyone! I got so swept up in life for a bit, I didn't even think to check this thread. It was a nice surprise to see the comments. Very good news: my husband & I consulted, and he has agreed to go to individual therapy with a very solid, helpful, relate-able sounding therapist that I hope and think my husband will like. I made his first appointment- it's this Saturday! I'm nervous and very very pleased. I just can't wait to see how it goes.

I'm praying that things ease up in my family. I want us to get to a point where I'm not anxious about there being the potential for danger between them, and also just where we can enjoy each other's company more! My husband has many things to work though, but I am glad just for a little step in the right direction- a big one really- for him to agree to see a therapist- that's something I've been working toward for months!

What I've also done is scheduled a really nice few days for him. Tonight he's having a long massage and I'm making his favorite dinner and taking the night off work to spend time with him.

Saturday, we're going to have a nice dinner w/my daughter out, then drop her off at a party and spend a few hours together as a couple. I'm really looking forward to it- I know I shouldn't be too optimistic, or expect too much... but I've not had much to go on lately, it's been just seeming worse and worse with him, so I'm really excited.

 

[Leah123]

You know, Dmerish, I just wanted to take a moment and hijack my own thread to say that a while back, you posted about a very difficult situation. And I read it and got a little wrapped in my own relevant issues. I posted to your thread, and think some of what I said was probably alright, but I distinctly recall saying that as a mother, you should suck it up.

And you know, I just wanted to say sorry for that. It wasn't thoughtful or well-considered of me. I have mommy issues, and they showed.

You've been so kind to me in a couple threads, I wanted to apologize for my lack of kindness.

 

[blackemerald1]

Leah123 I think you should be pleased and you should be excited and I wish you the very best with your 'couple' time that you have arranged. I think you are a great wife and I hope your hubby appreciates it.

I hope you get some love back too.
cheers
blackemerald1

 

[Leah123]

It's been eleven up and down weeks since I first posted about this "bad day in my marriage." It was one of many bad days over the past few years. My anxiety about their fighting was one of my biggest triggers actually, it'd gotten so bad I was completely overwhelmed by it at the worst times. Between that and not sleeping well, it's little wonder my PTSD symptoms were escalating, sigh.

In the last eleven weeks my husband has mostly been attending therapy. He cancelled a couple times without good reason, after which I told him I was dead serious that he *had* to go if he wanted to continue our family life. He's gone since then, had maybe... eight sessions now, somehow hard to believe it's been that many, but at least six I think. I can see he's gained a little insight, and I can tell he is committed to going. In the last few weeks he does seem calmer, no more outbursts, though he has a long way to go toward behaving in the way I'd like, being positive more and constructively parenting instead of just acting confrontational, frustrated, pessimistic with her. He's not always like that, but a fair amount, enough to really really bother me.

I've been trying very hard to be patient, the thing is... a couple weeks after he started therapy he told me he was going to kill himself- the way he did it was horrific and manipulative and I was extremely upset. Since then, he's been doing better, but we had a serious confrontation and well, I feel that was the straw that broke this camel's back.

Since then, I've been seriously triggered, took a while to get through it, and am feeling better now, but I feel so uncomfortable around my husband. I decided not to be intimate with him for a while and it's terribly hard, also triggering. It's been... maybe three weeks now, first time in my marriage I've set that boundary intentionally, and I WISH I wasn't living here sometimes. I think of how peaceful it would be, just myself and my daughter, and about being able to find someone I have more in common with, someone closer to my ideal- he's pretty far from it, seems further than ever lately.

I've told myself I'll give it three months to see how things progress before I decide if I want to separate, and I'm hoping things will improve. My therapist says sometimes they do, and she tells me she's never actually had more hope for my marriage than she does right now, because my husband is in therapy and promised his commitment. She says my emotions are like a rubberband that snapped after all the times I dealt with our difficulties and persevered, that now that I've finally reached my limit, my feelings are catching up. I don't know- I've certainly been upset with him before, but now, I'm just questioning the whole marriage. :( There have been a few optimistic moments. Trouble is, change sure doesn't happen overnight. I've wanted him to change for years, and it wasn't til I had these ultimatums that he would do it. Now I'm trying to just observe and see what he'll do, make him manage himself and see what happens. It's not easy, ha.

 

[nursenurse]

This is the hard part, because he didn't actively seek help until you threatened him. If you are going to have a chance at success, you have to bury that thought and look at things with fresh eyes and a new outlook, otherwise the resentment will grow. As you know it is most of the time a two step forward and one or more steps back process. Commend him for trying no matter what took him there, leave the why alone. I admire that you have set yourself realistic goals and timeframes. At least you will know if the pattern is forward. Only you can decide which steps back are unacceptable. How much you can take. Good luck.

 

[Abstract]

One of the things I have noticed is that when you have taken a lot to get to a point where it is enough and you are forced to set an altermatum, many people (a lot of women especially I believe) are already done in their minds. I hate generalising but here I go! It seems to me that men are often still more flexible at this point. Woman once they get to the enough phase can find it really hard to care about the person in the way they want to. I think enough speaking and speaking and not being heard can kill love. It certainly can kill patience. It's often at that point that the man (or the one on the receiving end of the talking and talking) starts waking up to the reality of the situation but it is often too late.

All I can say is to take your time as you need to weed out the triggered ness and any overlaps with fears that come from the past. Give yourself a little time to make sure you are seeing this all as clearly as possible. If he is not someone who you can respect or feel safe with regardless of how much he can do in therapy then you owe it to you, your daughter and him to think of moving on. What attracted you to him in the first place? Where you seeing the true him then or not?

Think of it this way: if he stays who he is and stays as is with you but finds it in him to not do the behaviours with your daughter that you don't approve of then how do you feel about him as a person?

Very impressed by your courage in holding your ground with him and therapy by the way. I can only imagine what it must take to have to do that, be a mother, deal with his problematic behaviour, study, and then deal with your PTSD on top of all of this. I hope you are as proud of yourself as you deserve to be.

 

[Leah123]

it is enough and you are forced to set an altermatum, many people (a lot of women especially I believe) are already done in their minds.

Yes, that's kind of how I feel, that *finally* we've gotten him in therapy, there is some reason for hope, this is probably the best place I've been at in the past four years, yet... yes, I *feel* pretty much done, burnt out. My therapist thinks burn-out can heal, and that I'm partly triggered by the breakup of my family- in my experience, once family goes downhill, it NEVER gets better- everything explodes. I am trying to sort through the past vs. present, has been keeping me busy, ha! Anyway, she's trying to teach me that even if my marriage doesn't work out, it won't be so awful this time, and maybe... maybe my attraction to my husband will strengthen again if he does well, so... I figure it's definitely worth waiting a bit to see, but it is hard to live in the tension, though, actually, I think I and my daughter are doing better than ever, I'm just *feeling* the struggle. (Doing well, feeling bad, jeeze, it's like my new mantra, ha.)

I will say his behavior has improved, as I told him it must. He's keeping his temper much better, the therapy's helping a bit I think and so things are somewhat calmer here, though he has a long way to go regarding positive parenting and I have a long way to go to see if I can feel close to him or even comfortable around him. We're still doing things together, but I wish I had some alone time. They just finished a two week period at home for the holidays too, that was extra-stressful I guess.

if he stays who he is and stays as is with you but finds it in him to not do the behaviours with your daughter that you don't approve of then how do you feel about him as a person?

Well... I think I'd feel... probably 'warm' enough to stay with him, though I'm a little on the fence. I see now the differences between us and between what I want and what he wants and offers more vividly than before these last blow-outs.

What attracted you to him in the first place? Where you seeing the true him then or not?

He was gentle, respectful, androgynous (I'm bi), calm, steady, committed, reliable, smart, kinda funny, and he had a sense of vulnerability that was attractive. He was depressed though, and I didn't realize it was a long-term thing. That's been very draining, dealing w/his depression, after that he had heart failure, then lost his job, and the parenting issues have been worsening the last few years, so it's all piled up. We definitely found it way easier being married than being parents. Now I see he's insecure, jealous, has parenting issues I didn't expect, etc. Sigh.

I'm so tired today, got triggered in therapy, I should probably be answering this tomorrow, but... I really appreciate you replying.

 

[nursenurse]

I honestly think that when someone does domething out of an ultimatum for you, the resentment is already firmly entrenched and you are toast. This has nightingale to do with PTSD, but with relationships in general. I would walk. For me. My kid was the most important when I did walk. Not PTSD, but similar problems many years ago. Choose wisely. When a kid resents you, it never goes away really.

 

[Powder]

Leah123, You don't control his choices, so if despite all your support, he chooses to be miserable and make you and your daughter miserable, then he hasn't left you the wiggle room you need to feel good about your vows over time.

I think that you truly love him, despite the fact that some of his recent behaviors have become unlikable. This is compassionate and shows the kind of wonderful person you are.

When you say you "wish" sometimes it were just you and your daughter in the home, then I read that as "want" but don't allow for myself out of duty or what's best. Again, I feel it takes restraint and compassion to put others first and think of the good of everyone. It is also not good to give up too easily that which one loves.

Like you, I have PTSD, a good man, and a daughter who seems at times to have been sent here to challenge the very core of our marriage and family life. I can relate to all that you say. Sometimes my wonderful daughter's sunshine turns into a hurricane and would really challenge the patience of a saint. My daughter makes Dennis the Menace look like a model child. Everyone she spends time with ends up "needing a break." In my opinion, your daughter trying to run out the front door sounds like my daughter, but I don't know. I love my daughter but I am aware of how difficult she is. As such, my whole family has to spend time discussing how best to manage our own needs with a difficult family member we all love and want to support. In our case, we continually talk about having her seen by specialists because we know that "there is something" with her. Bipolar runs in my family, I now know, though it missed me. I don't know that it is bipolar. She is just a little dictator and she does not "negotiate with terrorists or parents for that matter..." ;) Frankly, I think some of the traits you all have can be put to good use. Change is needed. Things tend to change, which is how they ended up like this, so it's actually likely they will change again. You guide that change because you have the most wisdom and it falls to you.

I think you have a the makings of a good family with you at the helm but if your husband won't recognize your strength or his weakness, then it's up to you to take charge. On the other hand, Maybe your H.'s point needs some further respect and consideration. While I 100% agree that his behavior would trigger me, too (been there, done that, and threw a fit) and would be tempted to want to prioritize his anger issues, this all works together like a clock. Each wheel must be considered and oiled. If he thinks your daughter is fueling the fire, then is he somewhat correct, or not? If he is, then what to do? Are you taking sides with your daughter, or trying to be a good mother? It's very hard for me to pick all that apart in my life. It is hard for me to listen to my spouse when I am upset with him. I blame him for triggering me even though it is our child who presents the challenge. I must not feel a failure. Lots of people have lost a perfectly good marriage over a child. Why should I be exempt from the same influences? As a parent, I feel such pressure to do well, especially given that I survived my parents. I do not want my children to feel they barely made it out of my home in one piece, and neither do you. But when one parent feels the other has taken sides with the child...well, that's how wars all got started.

Much respect and caring, I know that you are fully capable and have the required diplomacy to work out what is best for everyone. Just my thoughts for what they are worth. Your choice and you know best. I hope my reflections are validating to you and you see your strengths, which I hold in high esteem.

Muse

 

[Leah123]

When you say you "wish" sometimes it were just you and your daughter in the home, then I read that as "want" but don't allow for myself out of duty or what's best. Again, I feel it takes restraint and compassion to put others first and think of the good of everyone. It is also not good to give up too easily that which one loves.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Much seems on point.

In terms of wishing, yes, I am delaying my "wish gratification" to see if our family can meet my needs and my daughter's well enough to continue together, to see how strong my wish is and if it will turn into a passing fantasy if things improve. This reevaluation has been a long time coming, several years, and now that my husband has finally agreed to get help and is doing therapy, I am pausing, observing, and giving us some space, a few months worth to see what change may come. A fifteen year marriage is nothing to discard lightly, and I really do nothing lightly when it comes to my family, but it is hard to live in this tension right now.

It's very hard for me to pick all that apart in my life. It is hard for me to listen to my spouse when I am upset with him. I blame him for triggering me even though it is our child who presents the challenge.

Yes, this is an issue I deal with, and it does take discernment to attribute things properly. My child does present challenges! We've been working at them, but not too successfully for a long time. I had to focus on my own contribution, my own issues, for the first eight months or so of my therapy. I needed to be more clear about cause, effect, etc. and I documented a lot during that time, worked with my therapist, and got clearer. In the meantime, his behavior had escalated for a while, it was ultimatums that I finally, regretfully resorted to a couple times to see if that would keep him in check enough, and after doing some of my work, I found that if I was going to be married, I needed to trust my husband to take the helm sometimes too, and I couldn't, not enough. He does have strengths, he does love her, provide for her, care for her. There is absolutely good in this family, in this marriage, while here I've only been focusing on the problem areas because those are what needed addressing, but there are some positive reasons we've stayed together, reasons we came together originally, so.. I'm trying to build on those as best I can.

Maybe your H.'s point needs some further respect and consideration. While I 100% agree that his behavior would trigger me, too (been there, done that, and threw a fit) and would be tempted to want to prioritize his anger issues, this all works together like a clock.

Yes, our problems occur in concert and have been intertwined, but actually, I haven't prioritized his anger, it's been the last issue to be addressed, as we've been working on my daughter's behavior, and I've worked on my own behavior and issues, first independently, then in therapy. My daughter has exhibited challenging behavior a long time and recently my therapist and I have concluded she fits the criteria for ODD, but some behaviors have improved a lot since I've worked on my issues and I am certain our parental behaviors contribute to her difficulties significantly, I can tell she will naturally do better if and when he addresses his issues and works on his parenting skills. I've also just started working through a book which fits her issues perfectly, The Explosive Child, recommended by my therapist, who is also a LMFT, and am encouraging my husband to read it with me, though so far he's only looked at it once. :(

My husband's contribution to the dysfunction was definitely due for attention. I worked hard for years to help the relationship between those two flourish, while my husband undid many of my efforts, though not intentionally. He's seemed depressed a very long time and also lacking in parenting skills and the initiative to gain them. So, he comes across, at times, as immature, too authoritarian, and pessimistic toward my daughter. It's like bailing water from a sinking boat, to try and mediate their conflicts, a great deal of effort just to keep above water, impossible to sail or even repair alone. After a long while of that, and other stressful events with him and dealing with his depression, I am now burnt out, some PTSD symptoms really flared up, and I am needing him to stand on his own two feet, in parenting and other areas.

The hard part is waiting this last while, observing, too see what unfolds.

 

[Powder]

My heart goes out to you. I can see how much passion, intellectual work, and dedication (and love) you have poured into your family. Yes, you deserve that your H. puts equal or similar measure of effort into the family, or at least does his level best. I hear that.

You have done all that you can. I really find nothing in your statements to improve upon in any way. I have the same issues with my 2nd daughter. My first is a peacemaker, more like you. I was less mature and cool headed with my first, but she is easy to live with. My 2nd is not, despite our greater years, patience, and wisdom. I wonder if your daughter would be any different even if you didn't have PTSD. So much has been shown to be pre-determined by biology, genetics, and (I wonder about the soul and past lives) something else. We are essentially who we are, but inside lies great potential. It takes energy to realize that potential. And you, I can see, are dedicated to that and to fostering a home in which everyone gets to grow. We can be like flowers and turn toward the sun.

You are painstakingly waiting for him to turn toward the sun because he's casting a shadow on the family in his own darkness. I believe everyone needs to do their own turning for the light to really shine on all. Adults should know this more so than children, and take on the responsibility, which is what you are waiting for, patiently and with effort.

Ironically, adults carry more emotional baggage, and so, again, you are right to ask him to take control of his. When I was young, I thought emotions and love were all that was needed. But life experience shows that we apply efforts in many ways that involve the intellect, improvisation, experimentation, learning, and psycho-education. Emotional intelligence, emphasis on the intelligence, becomes the part we can work with.

It's like bailing water from a sinking boat, to try and mediate their conflicts, a great deal of effort just to keep above water, impossible to sail or even repair alone. After a long while of that, and other stressful events with him and dealing with his depression, I am now burnt out, some PTSD symptoms really flared up, and I am needing him to stand on his own two feet, in parenting and other areas.

The hard part is waiting this last while, observing, too see what unfolds.

Oh, yes. Your willingness to be patient is admirable and what people call hope. I admire that greatly and see it as the critical ingredient in all new life, change, and transformation. It is the true "fruit of the spirit." I wish everyone were as you are.