Black Lives Matter - a converstation

[DharmaGirl]

I don't know if this has been covered, I haven't found it. I live in a white community, and moving to a whiter one. I lived in Georgia in the 60s - ewww, and the Northeast and Northwest. I have seen racism, white privilege and cried during history in college when I learned some of the true history of the US. I would like to start a conversation with everyone on this issue.

This started with my white neighbor telling me there is no systematic racism and white privilege. I was deeply upset. There are so many times in my life this has affected me. I was engaged to a black narcotics officer, which enraged my friends in the horse world. My best friend for years, who introduced me to Buddhism, was also black, but I never thought of them as black first. When I think of O, I think of her huge smile, her quirky sense of humor, her prettiness. I don't categorize her in a racial slot. Her culture was different from mine, and I loved it. On the other hand, I used to work in a black community and was afraid a few times because I was a white girl. I was also told not to hire too many black people in the store I managed. I quit.

Anyway, I know I am sometimes racist without knowing it, and I hesitated to write about my fiance and friend because I wasn't saying, hey look-I have black friends, I was trying to communicate that I didn't see them as people different from me as a human. I want to know what I can do to help the movement from anyone of color here, or any white person who might have an opinion.

 

[Ronin]

Maybe better asked your local community, though?

They're best aware of needs and the way those needs are best met.

Ditto to caring white people - locally and on the ground you will probably get more tangible and implementable info. :tup:

 

[DharmaGirl]

Thank you, @Ronin.

 

[Ronin]

<grins> That was by no means to cut off a conversation before it even gets started...

Sorry if it came out that way.

Just saying some needs need an in person engagement.

 

[somerandomguy]

It's probably worth asking whether people of color on this board feel discriminated against, and if so we can discuss how we can fix it.

Given the pretty strong anonymity here though, i.e. everyone is just black text on a white screen, members of color may not even want to break even that much anonymity.

I am sure in my long posting history I have said something that could be taken as unthinking and uncharitable towards those who are not like me. Hell, I know I do it with women. I probably do it with people of color too but I am just not as aware of it.

 

[DharmaGirl]

Just saying some needs need an in person engagement.

No, you're right. I'm already talking to the leader of BLM in my community, I just wanted to know if anyone wanted to discuss it and how we who are white can improve.

members of color may not even want to break even that much anonymity.

That's true too, and it so doesn't matter here since we are anonymous, but no one has to out themselves to give an opinion of how we can improve our relationship with people of color.

 

[Ronin]

Thing is, it *does* matter.

Not even starting on how that anonymity is illusory...

But the view itself that "online, doesn't matter" is ill informed and a version of color blindness.

It doesn't matter online if you're white.

And even only for say, Americans who are white, it's very recent to begin to feel that race can be a concept that matters and could get them very really harmed just for the race *itself*... aka the reality of people of color & racialized minorities like some faiths face daily.

 

[Changing4Best]

My white uncle married a lady who was definitely a woman of color. She taught me many things of value. We didn't have online back then, so in person was it. One thing she taught me, today I used. She said if we cut carrots and celery on a slant, their flavors come out stronger, and flavor soups and stews better. I have some lentil soup on my stove right now, and it already tastes and smells great!

 

[Ronin]

:hilarious:

The veggies bit reminded me of auntie / godmom and cooking she did when she moved to the States.

Fond memories, thank you for reminders @Changing4Best.

 

[DharmaGirl]

But the view itself that "online, doesn't matter" is ill informed and a version of color blindness.

This is what I was going for. Why does it matter when I don't know who is what color? I'm sorry, I'm white and nerdy, but I always had a concept that race matters. We moved from the northeast to Georgia in the 60s. My first real encounter with racism was at a store where the bathrooms had out of order signs on them. I was 7 and the man told me I could use the bathroom, the sign was to keep out N-. My first boyfriend in kindergarten, William, was black, and all I could picture in my mind was William not being allow to use the bathroom when he had to go so badly. I refused to use the bathroom and I was in big trouble. I couldn't find the words to tell my parents why I wouldn't use it, but that man is ingrained in my memory and always comes up when I think of "good old boys".

Anyway, racism makes me sick and I want to stop the inadvertent racism like "online it doesn't matter" but I want to know why.

 

[grit]

I would say first and foremost this is interesting topic. I am not american or even western so I will leave it at that.

Also I find American culture fascinating (which the white/black are the same - cause only within they think they have different culture but in the world - they have the same culture - which its irony is lost to most Americans).
So in that light, here is some of my take. I think the words "white privilege" is a problem. White privilege is sort of sword or shield depending on the person brandishing. I think this way because most whites (even the poor may say this term) without knowing what they are talking about. And almost every single time, it is about economics/political not really humanity, empathy or even basic animalsm.

I think IMHO, the right approach is for most whites (I will try not to over generalize) to use maybe white fragility or white vulnerability. The reason I think these words may carry more truth or weight is to ask yourself, why whites are often afraid of blacks? Why whites think if the blacks take over, they may treat them worse than the whites are treating them (when throughout history this never actually happened). I think being on myPTSD website will say this is a real fear projected to the blacks. So in essence a lot of whites are just afraid and rather than saying white fragility or vulnerability or fear (which may cause a pause and trigger change), the whites hide under we are privileged. Are you though if you are so afraid the blacks will take over forever when there is no single truth tot that?

I am privileged economically and politically too so I am putting myself in that category but I am not too delusion to think I am not vulnerable or fragile either.

I am deeply involved in diversity work and I truly believe one way to combat racism is individual levels and through language.

Even saying without acknowledging the irony that you live in white neighborhood and moving to even whiter one is a problem. That bare minimum language is lacking (and I am truly not judging dharmagirl...just challenging the notion and the language used) without acknowledging the perpetuated history of housing legal/loans etc, gerrymandering, and oppression in American history is too obvious to pass. I think the fact you quit when told do not hire blacks tells me you were in environment that was open in real systematic racism - which is the most danger to all of us if you look at us in living ecosystem where being different makes us more creative, more diverse - I mean why US culture is so intoxicating around the world is not just because there are white people in US!

The most delicious, trendiest, and gorgeous neighborhoods in US and Canada are those that have diverse groups of people that mess creativity (some poverty that is inherit to it) and good economics that use the said creativity ----What is Manhattan without its Harlem? sort of.

So to close my critical piece of American culture, I will say this. US and its culture is fascinating to me. I love it. It is different, it is on your face, it is aggressive, creative and they eat each to move forward but yet they cannot truly separate. The end is your culture, more than any other culture, sets the tone in the world at any given moment.

So if you love your country, you will see it from outside in and realize, it is nothing without your black folks and start to appreciate as others in the world (which you are sort of losing this cause you are eating each other a bit too intensely lately). As individual level, you can ask what is America? and what do I love about it if I was telling my story to an alien? and if you see yourself not even remembering your country was built by the blacks, then that tells you where you stand deep in your psyche.

I know I am bit out there with my American assessment but again I am looking in from the outside and sometimes my assessment can be annoying or even painful for those in it. Regardless, it is a great country even with your wounded history. and I do not want to hijack anymore than I have but the same thing can be written how about American women? Why do Americans afraid of women in power???

 

[Never_falter2]

My white uncle married a lady who was definitely a woman of color. She taught me many things of value. We didn't have online back then, so in person was it. One thing she taught me, today I used. She said if we cut carrots and celery on a slant, their flavors come out stronger, and flavor soups and stews better. I have some lentil soup on my stove right now, and it already tastes and smells great!

That reminds me of my aunt who is dead now and she grew up under communist rule where our kind of family was discriminated against. However she was a genius cook - when we came for dinner first she had soup, then roast, then cake and always so much for everybody. Loved going there as a kid.

She just loved to invite people over and later there was dancing and the grown-ups sat together and talked while the kids played outside.

Sorry, if this is off topic. She wasn’t even black. I just wanted to say it’s always good to have a good cook in your family and to be a good cook - especially if you come from a group that has been discriminated against.