General Called Vets Doc, Discussed His Talks of Suicide, Didn't Go Well

[Thankful]

Hi All

Need some support or words that might help me feel a bit better right now, or shed some light so I get a different perspective.

This thread is a related to my last which was titled "Iraq Vet Appears to be Dependant on Meds". With the advice of others and my own inkling I thought it best to take the risky leap (or what feels like) and call his therapist to let them know the changes I've seen in him.

Feeling tension and regret now, for having called. I did NOT have a good experience talking to that doctor, and ended up getting a bit upset with the doc over the phone.
I first let the doc know why I was calling - that, though I feel some apprehension I felt it important to let someone know what he's said to me regarding 'not living anymore' and also how medicated he seems every day now.

I expected the doc to say "thank you for caring, thank you for calling - especially regarding any suicide talk etc" and leave it at that. Instead, she was very stern-voiced the entire time, and said things like "I don't think he's telling you everything, but we are aware of such talk....he's got access to me, or an 800# 24/7. I think he's reaching out more than he's telling you. Because of the HIPPA act I can't tell you anything more.." I said I was aware and didn't call for her to tell me anything, but the contrary. She then said she would call him and tell him I called and talk to him! I was like 'what! I don't think so!' like that would help anything! that would make it worse. I asked her not to do so...that just like the HIPPA act and she can't tell me what he says, she needs to not tell him that I called.

I told her that he is CONSTANTLY medicated now...all he does is sleep. She said "well, it depends on what time of day you are calling him..or if he is taking his right dosage or not". DUH!!

I got tired of her stern voice and seemingly lack of appreciation for my taking the time to call, and I let her know that. A simple 'thank you for caring' would have been nice.

This takes me back to where my thinking was before - just HOW good is the help he's getting through the Vet Ctr? And also - was that a majorly wrong move by me, to call his doc? I didn't know, was completely unsure and nervous, but felt it was time to do something. I held back the tears as I expressed that it would be terrible if he took his life and I never tried to do anything about it. she barely said a word. Maybe they are so used to it they just don't care enough anymore?

I DO know I'm stressed and want to wash my hands of the situation right now. I'm not the one with PTSD and therefore shouldn't have my day wracked with tension! Something in this equation is not working for me. And if there is a lot more to the situation than he is telling me...as the doc implied - then I'm pissed at him!

I'm going to go for a run now and get my head back on straight and my happy, back.

thanks for listening. If you have any similar experiences let me know.

K

 

[Deleted member 541]

This will probably blow up in your face. Sorry to say....If she calls him, he will be pissed for going behind his back and calling his Dr.

The Hippa laws SUCK big time, but I guess they are needed. I knew someone that dealt with the VA, and his opinion, was that basically they were assholes......He didn't do therapy with them at all, even though he had PTSD. Just dealing with them for medical was enough for him....

Dealing with a person with PTSD can be quite draining, and if you can't handle it, I suggest that you get out now. You need to be a strong person, that has strong boundaries, and yet is caring. I'm not implying that you are not caring, but it takes a lot to be a carer....

 

[Thankful]

I asked the doc not to call for the very reason you mentioned and she said she wouldn't, so hopefully she keeps her word. It's a delicate situation...it's not every day I know or run into someone who talks or makes hints about suicide. So is there any easy, straight answer? no. I can only say I did what I did out of my heart and concern for him and that's all I can say.
I agree, it is VERY tough being a carer! I am only his friend and can't imagine more than that. We used to be a couple a few years ago but broke up because I couldn't handle it, or him; I couldn't handle the non-communication, non-intimacy, isolation stuff. But the love didn't necessarily stop, so I now channel that into a friendship with him and let him know that I'm always here, and do love and care for him very much. We don't live near each other so it also helps with the boundary issue.

One day at a time...I'm leaning what works and doesn't and how I want to 'be' in this friendship etc.

 

[kers]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but what did you expect the doctor would say? He is an adult and in charge of his own care. Making the doctor aware of his suicidal talk is indeed kind of you, but why should the doctor thank you for caring? For all you know, he and the doctor have been discussing his suicidal feelings in depth, as well as the medication. The doctor cannot inform anyone of his treatment, as all adults who are of sound mind are allowed their privacy. He has no obligation to tell you the whole story, just because you are friends. It's his life, and his illness.

Perhaps it would be more productive for you to urge him to persevere in treatment and work on the issues that concern you. He's a capable, though ill, adult.

 

[Thankful]

It CANNOT be assumed that any patient is telling their doctor of their suicide thoughts, especially military - as it might not 'look good' on paper if he were to admit it. This is only a possibility, not what happened. but because we DON'T know, it's better to fair on the side of concern rather than assume someone talking of suicide will be 'just fine' and express everything rationally, including heavy use of meds.

As mentioned, I didn't ask the doctor to inform, as I wrote I expressed the contrary - to do my part as a concerned citizen to let her know what I he said to me, several times, and make sure that it is known beyond just me of this recent tendency. Period. No more intended. that's not a bad thing, if it is - god help us all. As a sufferer wrote to me on another post, someone who is heavily medicated might also not be thinking rationally about how much their using/taking and might NOT be telling their doctor everything.

If I talked repeatedly of suicide to someone who lived miles away, and was simultaneously isolating myself, and self-medicating, it might be good to know someone looked out for me, went the extra mile beyond just listening occasionally on the phone.

In the end, I feel I did my part by saying something, as difficult a decision it was to do that and as unpleasant as it was today with that doc. From there, I have no interest or plan to talk to his doctor any further, that's for darn sure.

 

[Nicolette]

I know someone who committed suicide last week. No-one knew a thing or expected it.

IMHO if someone is talking about suicide they are asking for help...if they just wanted to kill themselves they would just do it and not make a hoo haa about it.

Carers and Sufferers sit on opposite sides of the fence. To me you have to do what feels right and live with the consequences. It may cost a relationship but it may save a life.:dontknow:

 

[zoe]

You did what you believed was right for someone that you cared about... one couldn't ask any more of a friend. The doctor was an ass IMHO. You did not appear to be asking for information - just supplying it - which is allowed under HIPPA.

Now that you did what you could for him. Take care of you.

Zoe

 

[Shoka]

Been There

Dear SpecialK

First of all, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I know how you feel to some degree.

I have called my bf's therapists at least twice. Both times were suicide threats. There are a few things you need to understand. In the USA, therapists are required to tell their patients if someone has called on their behalf. I was informed of this by my own therapist prior to my calling his therapists.

When I did call his therapists (he has a psychiatrist and a psychologist), I got quite a wide spectrum of response. The psychologist was fairly abrupt with me and curt. The psychiatrist was more warm and understanding, and appreciative, and gave me a little feedback. My own therapist explained that this was because it wasn't about me that they were concerned with, they were concerned with THEIR patient. I think the difference between the two responses were personality based.

Every therapist or healthcare worker in the USA is BOUND by HIPPA. They are required to go through extreme testing to ensure that they comply. It is very intense the way HIPPA works in any field of healthcare, and then depending on the institution they work for, it can be enforced more stringently or not.

Personally, I don't think you were wrong for calling if you were that concerned he was going to take his life. Like I said, I called twice and have never regretted making those calls, because I know for certain that one of those times he was making more than a "suicidal gesture".

It's hard to judge the quality of care anyone receives, and what's even harder is that its out of your control, period.

One of the things that helped us is that I ended up going to a session with him to meet his therapist and talk about the kinds of things I could do to help him, and the kinds of things I/we needed to avoid. That session helped me see with my own eyes how much his psychologist cared for my bf and was trying to help. Sometimes this kind of session isn't appropriate and the patient has to be willing to have you there.

Hang in there. It sounds like you are under a bit of stress yourself, and when things are so intense like that it's crucial that you get help for yourself or you have a strong support system to lean on. Being on this forum is a good start, but I found I also needed some "live" persons to help me navigate through all of it, which is why I have a therapist too.

You are in my thoughts SpecialK:Hug_emoticon:

Shoka

 

[SunnyBrookFarm]

I know someone who committed suicide last week. No-one knew a thing or expected it.

IMHO if someone is talking about suicide they are asking for help...if they just wanted to kill themselves they would just do it and not make a hoo haa about it.

This has been my experience as well - when my sister-in-law killed herself it was completely out of the blue and she never said a word.

Having said that - you should take all suicide talk seriously - but in my experience it's always a better sign when someone discusses it with you - they are reaching out for help.

Unfortunately, I'm sure sometimes there are cases where people have reached out and still follow through - however, I do believe you can't prevent someone from committing suicide - don't put that on yourself - please. It took me many years to get over the guilt of "I could have done something".

 

[jrgm13]

I thought this subject was banned here? I found this site last january when I quit seroquel and couldn't sleep for weeks on end and my heart rate was doing doubletime. i mentioned that i was diagnosed with ptsd and parinoid schizophrenia. i'm definitely parionoid. some inturn threw in the schizophrenia. i don't walk arround with tin foil on my head, hear the tv talking to me, ect. i was awake for so long that my next detailed entry disappeared before i got it posted.

My next entry was deleted because i even mentioned the word.

I have no memory of my life before i was 5 years and three weeks old (when I turned my brother into a human torch).

I didn't take the medication for my high blood pressure, high cholesterol and rapid heart rate that they wanted me to take. my blood pressure, heart rate and cholesterol are all normal now (the seroquel must have finally left my system). i posted this here because the word is in the title.

if you don't want me here, just send me an e-mail. i've had this for as long as i can remember but there are no other ptsd forums that i can find. I have alot more issues then what happenned when i was 5

Have a good day

 

[Thankful]

Everyone - thank you so much for your words of advice, wisdom and support. I really need(ed) it. This situation is so out of the ordinary for me (thankfully, good to know all my friends aren't suicidal lol), and so it is really stirring up my sense of self, standing firm in a decision I made and mostly, living with it. That can be good for personal growth I'm sure, but in the end just plain ol disturbing.

Today added another chapter to the story: I woke feeling much better, went for my morning swim and was about to carry on with daily tasks when my friend called me. He first let me know that he had just met with his doc (a psychiatrist at the VA hospital, a different one than I talked to) and that the doc suggested he stay over night in the hospital for a few days so they could keep watch on him!! I was amazed - I realized, with that information, that I wasn't so far off!! My gut was not so far away from reality when it led me to make that call yesterday. A sigh of a certain relief (that I hadn't F'd up entirely).

By the end of my conversation with him I had forgotten what had transpired the day before, and I suggested once again that I could come visit him (which would involve a plane ride) and hang out for a few days so he's not alone. He said yes, that it would mean so much to him. Great. But then suddenly I remembered: I had made that call. I asked myself, 'could I go visit him knowing I had made that call? and what if he found out while I was there and went bolistic on me?' So I decided to 'come clean' and tell him. He was calm at first, but as a few minutes passed he became angry and hung up on me.

So - back to where I was yesterday, feeling overwhelmed with the unfamiliarity of the situation, of having addressed such a huge issue and in someone else's life. And wondering - did I F up by telling him? Should I have kept that to myself? This is jut not every day stuff, so it is jarring to my sense of what's real, what's right, wrong etc. Just trying to 'be' with it, and allow it to be what it is, and let him decide what he will about me, about life and living, and mostly, about his life.

Gosh - I would really like to not be writing this! :) I think I will need to find a diversion of some kind, and soon. laughter helps so maybe a movie etc.

Thanks so much everyone! I really am thankful for the support.

 

[Thankful]

I know someone who committed suicide last week. No-one knew a thing or expected it.

Wow, that's big news. I'm really sorry for this. Also thank you for sharing this and other other words of advice with me; very much appreciated.