Can Trauma Be Complicated By Home Situation

[Faye_Valentine]

Redfox,
We are products of our parents actions, regardless if we want to admit it or not. We are influences by everything around us, and your father sounds like a class A jerk, to me. Even if he only hit you once, he'd still a jerk. You don't lay your hands on a child.

12 is still not appropriate. No age is appropriate to be beaten. People do not have the right to harm other human beings, imo. It doesn't matter what you did, you didn't deserve that. The ONLY way you would've deserved to have been hurt is if you were attacking him and he was defending himself.

Stop trying to justify his actions. You don't have to make excuses for him. I know it's hard to come to terms with, but it IS abuse. Your father WAS abusive and he had no right in doing it. Regardless if his intentions were to "straighten you out" or try to correct you, it wasn't the right way to do it.

You know, first hand, how hurtful it can be when someone strikes you. Especially someone you love and who is supposed to be there for you. I'm not saying to not forgive him, now but I AM saying that you have to come to terms with the fact that he did wrong you and he had no right to do it.

That said, I wish you the best of luck in all of this.. in figuring yourself out. We're all on a journey to find ourselves and we all need a wake up call here and then. Let this be yours, and admit what HAS happened, so you can work on getting over it.

 

[redfox]

I know it must be frustrating to talk to me and I keep saying the same things over and over, but some of it is hard for me to understand. I mean I know my father made a lot of mistakes, and I never have liked him much. I am not even sure if I love him to be honest. I mean yeah he is my dad and I am grateful that he provided for me and kept me fed, clothed, etc, but I don't feel like he did me any favors. But it still seems to me that he could have done a lot worse. Ok, yes, he didn't treat me very well. I guess that much has to be obvious even to me. And I think I would have had an easier time growing up if he treated me better. And I guess you can say that is his fault. But still it could have been worse. I do think there is a big difference between breaking the arm of for example a 4 year old and breaking the arm of a 12 year old. That 4 year old doesn't have the mental ability to really understand why what he is doing is wrong, and shouldn't be expected to control himself. And my father knew that I am sure and that's why none of us got hurt like that when we were very young. But a 12 year old is nearly a teenager and he knows right from wrong and is expected to control himself to a certain degree which includes not destroying other people's property, and knowing what his actions will provoke in someone like my father. Because of course I knew what was going to happen. I remember waiting for him to come home that day and feeling so muh regret and fear because I knew what he would do. And that is why I think it's different and no it is not a good thing to do, and an adult should not break a child's arm, but there are circumstanes around it that change some aspects of it.

 

[Faye_Valentine]

Redfox,
I'm not trying to bully you. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

I can't make you see what I'm saying, and I can tell you that I see where you're coming from. Here's why:

When I was younger, my dad was also very abusive. Mostly, he just spanked us but it was with belts, books, tree branches, cords, or whatever he could find when we were younger but as we ( I have 6 siblings) grew older my father started being more aggressive and even almost killed my brother. I had to stop him.

My point being, I've been through it and I always told myself, "Well, it could be worse. He didn't break any of our bones or anything. We're still alive." And yes, it COULD have been worse, and yes we knew what would happen if we acted out, but that doesn't make it okay. It doesn't make his or your fathers actions acceptable. I think somewhere inside you, you know that.

That said, I have one question for you: If you had a child ( I don't know if you do.) , even a 12 year old would you think breaking his arm would be an acceptable course of action if he acted out?

Just because someone know the consequences of their actions, does not mean that the consequences are justified. We all mess up. We all act out. We all have regrets and even screw up, as adults. If another adult broke your arm, today, would you say, "Oh, well I guess he could've done worse?"

Okay, so i guess that's 2 questions.. Lol. But, either way I hope the best for you. I'm here if you need to talk. You can message me as well, if you'd like.

 

[redfox]

I don't think you are bullying me, I'm sorry if I said anything that sounded that way. I am just apologizing and thanks by the way for reading all this.

I don't have any children thankfully because I would not trust myself to be a father. But if I did have one, would I think it was acceptable to break his arm? No, and I don't think it was OK that my father did either, but I do understand where he is coming from. Because if I was in the same circumstance as my father (6 kids to take care of, a very sick wife, one of his kids in constant trouble) and my son broke my things like that I can't say for sure that I would not break his arm. I know that I would be very angry and I would want to hurt him, and I hope that I would not, but I have never been great at controlling myself. I think I am cut from the same cloth as my father is.

If someone broke my arm today, I would either hurt him back or press charges and get him arrested. But that's a different situation because I am an adult and no one is in charge of me. But when you are a child your parents are suppose to discipline you and teach you consequences for your actions. Now I don't think breaking arms is a good way to do this, of course it is not. But it's easier to see how it could end up that way by accident.

 

[Faye_Valentine]

Redfox,
I appreciate your honesty and I think it's a great thing to be able to understand where your father was coming from. My only point is not to confuse "understanding" with "justifying" because from what I've seen you type here, it seems like you're justifying his actions.

That said, are you seeking help for your aggression problems, as well? I think that this issue with your dad may be what's stemming a lot of the problems you're facing, today and it may be something you'll want to focus on heavily at your therapy appointments. (You're still going, aren't you?)

As a parent, I have had days where my daughter has been an absolute brat and trust me, I am FURIOUS with her. But, to be a parent means to be able to tell when you're getting to that point and take a step back. Go for a walk. Meditate. Whatever you can do.

The fact that you said YOU knew what was going to happen when your father got home says that this was typical behavior of him and that this was his normal reaction to you doing something bad. That's the unacceptable behavior I'm trying to talk about. You DID act out, because of how you were raised and treated. I'm sure you were angry that you were being treated that way more than your other siblings, and feeling guilty because of that anger, and when you're younger ( even 12) you don't know how to express those feelings, and if you've been raised in a hostile environment then you're going to act hostile. Your father IS to blame for the way you acted then, and he should be ashamed of himself for treating you that way.

If you don't mind me asking, is he still alive or around? When's the last time you spoke to him?

 

[redfox]

The anger problems are better than they used to be though still not that good. Mostly though it is directed towards inanimate objects, I don't go around hurting other people. When i was a a kid I would get in fights all the time. They did have me in therapy as a teenager mostly for the anger and behavior problems but I don't know how much that helped... I think mostly just growing up and becoming an adult made me mellow out some.

My father is still alive, still living where I grew up which is on the other side of the country now. I have not seen him in person for almost a decade. Last time I spoke to him was on last Thanksgiving when he called me drunk to yell at me (he does this sometimes on holidays.) The time before that was when he called to tell me my mom died. I only talk to him maybe once every 2 years and usually briefly. Mostly my family refuses to speak with me, not that I want to talk to them either. I have been disowned from them. But really my life is probably better for that these days.

I did know what he was going to do every time I acted up, and yes that was because it was his usual reaction. But I think I had some responsibility too for provoking him when I knew the consequences. If someone gets bit by a dog, the dog will get in trouble and possibly get put down because it is the dog's fault for biting. But if someone taunts a dog until it bites them, you can't say they are blameless. They usually call that being reckless and stupid because you know that dog is going to bite you if you keep it up.

 

[redfox]

Well I woke up a bout an hour ago from nightmares and it looks like I am not getting back to sleep. At least all this crap has changed the variety of my nightmares because I've been having some that are not about the trauma. This time it was about when my father kicked me out. I don't think about that much and I haven't though about the details for a long time.. I don't like to think about it so I try not to. But I can't control my dreams. I guess it was not that bad really but at the time I was terrified I really thought those might be the last hours of my life.I cried some when it was happening and it was humiliating and I woke up crying from the dream too and it took a while to stop. Yeah I am just a f*cking mess huh. I'm a 25 year old man and I am crying because waah waah my daddy hurt me 10 years ago. What a mess.

 

[seedling]

It's good to be able to cry about a hurt as big as that, you are fortunate. Your dreams know what you need to let out.

mm, I don't think your dad compares to a vicious dog as he was a grown man and parent - presumably with the responsibility and capacity to think about his actions - unlike the dog. But... If someone is locked in a cage with a biting dog that attacks them at random for no reason and the person can't get away and can't make friends - I can see the taunting happening even with the consequences afterward. Hey, the dog is going to bite anyway, might as well get something out of it.

As an adult your dad had more capacity for judgement than you did at 12, the brain is simply not developed at 12 like it will be as an adult. There has to be room for your emotions in the relationship too. You can't be a non-entity simply putting up with his crap with no reaction.

Also, and this is a hard one, you write about his intentions changing things. But what are his intentions behind the verbal abuse he heaps on you now - telling you he wished you are a shame to the family and you should've died at birth?

I'm not convinced that you are cut from the same cloth as your father. He did teach you to deal with your emotions in the same way as he does - anger taken out on others (or things)- but you are wanting to learn and change now, he's never done that. I think you will find a very different kind of "you" at the bottom of this, different than what your father is like.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear redfox,

No matter how much anyone is provoked, a person cannot give themself permission to respond with violence, especially to a child- and that's what you were: a child.
A child, or teenager, cannot also change their environment, they cannot control factors adults can, therefore they act out more.

I am with seedling, I believe there is 'you' underneath: not your father or anyone else.
Hugs if you will accept them.
xo

 

[redfox]

It's funny seedling that is kind of what it felt like... being trapped in a cage with an angry dog that will bite you for everything you do. Not that I didn't taunt that dog but I didn't always and I still got bit.

I am not sure really what his intentions are when he calls me up to yell at me. I know he is always drunk when he does it. I know also that he considers me a failure and finds my whole situation humiliating because it makes him look like a failure too in that he couldn't raise me 'right.' I guess he just wants to remind me of it and take out his frustration on me. He now lives with one of my brothers and it's only them two in the house, everyone else is moved out, and that brother always got along with him ok so I guess he doesn't have anyone to push around anymore.

Thanks guys for having faith in me... cuz I know I sure don't... lol. I do know I am different from my father in some ways but still too close for comfort. I think of what my life would have been like if I followed his path and it looks the same to me. I guess I am lucky that I didn't end up down that path though the path I did take isn't much better. Anyway.. I don't know. It all seems to much to get my head around.

 

[Heather]

Redfox - I really give you credit for keeping the dialogue open here and continuing to talk this out.

I agree 100% with Junebug no matter what you did. There is NO justification for what your father did to you. You were a child. It does not matter how much you provoked him, he had NO right to put his hands on you EVER.

I think you're pretty amazing and resilient to come back day after day to sort this stuff out. It can't be easy. It takes a strong person with a lot of strength and courage to do that. Be proud of yourself.

Take care. Heather

 

[redfox]

Wow thanks... I don't know about the strength and courage but thanks for the words of encouragement. To me it feels like I would be stronger if I just dealt with it on my own instead of posting it all over this board...