can we really live in the same house and live apart?

enough

MyPTSD Pro
has anyone been able to avoid divorce by just living seperately in the same home?
i have no problem with being platonic and faithful to my vowes, I have so many hobbies and interests and projects that being free of my responsibility (Felt by me) to be a part of her life will allow me to do more of what i enjoy.
And not caring that she lies about anything that will make the next ten minutes of her life easier will reduce my stress levels greatly.
I have nursed her through 4 hip replacements and the infection that caused the extra two surgeries. I have put my life on hold for the last 10 years to try to help her through so many struggles, but i cannot stand the lies and disrespect and lack of gratitude for all of it.
I am being told I have to get my life back and if she isnt going to be a part of it thats her loss. She can sit and color in her adult coloring books, smoking her cigarettes and feeling sorry for herself. I am planning fishing trips and travel and a life free of the frustration of caring for her.
Or, I can just flat disappear.
there can be mo more love for her, I cannot forgive the sum total of lies I have been told, marriage counseling only works if both parties want to try and i am past thinking I could ever forgive enough of it to continue caring.
I have to end the life i thought i wanted and fine one that wont make me hate myself for tolerating it.
Does anyone here have any experience with making someting similar work?
 
One thing I know I can't do is expect a fair liquidation and clean split.
There's a good chance you're right. And, maybe you've already looked into it so you know for sure. If you haven't already talked it over with a lawyer, I would. Just so you know where you stand. Better to make plans based on concrete information, I think. Another thought that just wandered across my mind is "What if she, for whatever reason, decided to file herself?

Trying to put myself in your situation....... I was in my late 40's. That probably makes a difference, although I'm not sure how much. As soon as I could, I left and moved half way across the country. Helped some friends recover for a tornado, hauled some horses cross country for some people, then got a really interesting job working on a ranch that belonged to a billionaire. It was about 5 years of adventure, until the ranch sold at the beginning of the "Great Recession". Now I live about 30 miles from the farm the ex and I had & I'm back shoeing horses for many of the people I worked for before the divorce. There were parts of all that that were really hard. but all in all it was the thing to do and I'm glad I did.

Thinking about what @Tinyflame said.... My T said that he suspected my ex had a personality disorder and lied because it was fun. He liked to tell stories, he liked the reactions he got to the stories, and craving the reactions was as much of a motive as anything. He lied about stuff I could see no reason at ALL to lie about, so that makes as much sense to me as anything. For example, he had about 4 stories he told about why we were divorcing. They included things like I was running off to join a cult or was running off with some guy I met online. Weirdly, he told different stories to each of his 3 kids and yet another one to his brother. He wasn't stupid enough to realize they'd compare notes...... Makes no sense to me at all! I'm just glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.

One other thing though....... My ex died about 5 years after the divorce. I've actually had people ask me if I wish I'd stuck it out another 5 years. I've asked myself that too. I'll admit, it was had to see his widow end up with the place I'd loved so much. It was also hard to see that they, and then she, kind of ran it into the ground, then split it up because they needed cash. I suspect things would have been different if I'd stuck it out there. But, he might have lived longer too, who knows? All in all, I feel like I did the right thing for me. Doesn't mean it would work for you. Uprooting your life is hard once you've settle in somewhere, even if you're not happy. It's familiar and walking away from familiar is hard.

What does your wife think about this "separate lives in the same house" idea? Seems like the only way it would really work is if she was willing to let it work.
 
It sounds as if she ‘needs?’ (Or would be better off?) to be in an assisted living community. Either her own flat/apt in a tower, with meals served in a central common area (along with group activities, outings, staff, housekeeping, etc.); or the higher level of care with “just” her own room/suite in a hallway of similar, ditto the meals/housekeeping + daily visits by either general staff or nurses, doctors, physical therapists, counselors, etc..

I know a helluva lotta people who divorce just for the sliding scale, whilst others who remain married to keep the number of people on 1 pension as high as possible. In both cases to get 1 or both persons into assisted living at reasonable rates.

So it seems like divorcing but remaining in the same house really suits neither of you? You’d be fine alone, but she needs some kind of structure/supervision by others?

Have you spoken to a lawyer, yet, to get a
- best case
- probable
- worst case
series of options?

That was one of THE most useful things for me, once I realized my marriage was over. Years, before we actually divorced.
 
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sorry, everyone who has contributed here is appreciated, but I am forced to take care of a mess and i will be back.
It isnt right to pose a question then ignore the answers, I wouldnt do that, back soon
It is actually alright to do whatever you need. Sometimes I start a thread but then can't engage with it or need time to digest it before going back. It's all ok.
 
The reason, the motivation, is critical to not only how it's viewed but perspective. Chances are what she is driving you to may be part of the very reason she's lying in attempts to prevent it.
The motivation is to make the next ten minutes of her life easier, always has been. The big lies have never been in our marriage, we have been faithful and we have met our highest hurdles together, willingly, and honestly.
But, the small lies that drive the wedge between us have become so easy for her to drop on me, that's how they feel, like she dropped it and now we both lower our gaze and look at it, both of us knowing it was a lie and the wedge has been driven further between us and that's that. She gets an easier ten minutes as soon as I go away, I get the next day week month feeling like I deserved it, after all I was dumb enough to be standing there when it was dropped.
I have heard the argument that she lies because she is afraid of my anger ( and I have anger like only a PTSD suffering person can understand) but it is a fallacious argument because my anger for her is only for the lies. It doesn't ring true that the lies are to avoid the anger caused by the lies.
Sometimes anxiety, sometimes substance abuse, or painkiller addiction, sometimes they don't (or can't) remember, there's even the existence coined now of fight-flight-or fib
Substance abuse and addiction are huge players in her problem.
All smokers quit eventually. Her mother quit when pneumonia put her in her deathbed. Her friends, her relatives, lots of them are now dead ex smokers.
I have seen too many corpses that could be described simply as "ex-smokers" and that's all I ever knew about them. They didn't wake up, the ambulance was called, the first responders were sent and were first on the scene, we guided the ambulance to the home, we helped with whatever came next, even if it was cut the crew loose and stay on scene until the sheriff came and cleaned out the medicine chest or the coroner showed up and we carried the weight for him. Many many times.
Tobacco is probably the last product the world will allow to legally do nothing but addict the users and eventually kill them. We all get excited about mass shootings and the highway death toll and twenty other life threatening things we all deal with, but smoking and vaping continue to fly under the social radar and selectively eliminate those of us who choose to let an addiction cloud our judgement.
An interesting thing- I recently heard that it has been shown that the parts of our brain that are involved when thinking about another person are also the same parts of our brain that are involved when thinking about our future selves. In other words, the way I think about the difference between my concerns and your concerns is the same way I think about the difference between my concerns and my future concerns.
I would add that PTSD sufferers like my wife and I (left that out until now, didn't I) have an even wider separation because many of us have the symptom of feeling a sense of a shortened or unimaginable future.
For me, I have worked hard every working day and most of my days left over since I was 14. A whole lot of that was just getting to another rent check and groceries, but a whole lot has been working for a future that has come more and more into focus as I get closer to retirement.
For her, she doesn't understand that the addiction will likely take away her chance to see her granddaughters graduation. It may take away seeing her grandsons (five of the little guys) first days of school, their little league games, their first crushes.
I know she wants to see all of those things and more, but the next ten minutes of present self are as distinctly separate from her future self, its as if someone other than her future self will have these years of smoking in their history.
And I know all too well that she probably will be another dead ex-smoker, getting removed from wherever she dies by some first responder or ambulance crew or coroner.
So, the ability to lie to make the next ten minutes is a well worn path she pretty much walks all day, every day. And just a little question like "did the dogs get fed" will send her down the path and the answer is yes, and now the next ten minutes are easier. Unless I have reason to go to the utility room and see empty dishes because she didn't feed them and forgot or didn't have time to cover the lie, and all of the anger I harbor for all of the dishonesty comes to bear on her and on me, because I leaned into the gut punch by asking a simple pass the day along question that a man and wife should be able to handle without fear or resentment. the lesson: feed the dogs, don't ask.
See her smoking after she lied to me and her surgeon and hurt her chances of getting through a hip replacement without infection by smoking: Dont say you saw it, don't try to stop it, don't ask how the cessation classes are going, dont ask if I smell it on her, don't ask about the hidden lighter I found, just know it will be a lie if you even get a response and know you have done what you can do for a couple of decades and if two extra hip replacements and a recovery from a life threatening touch and go infection and almost two years in a wheel chair didn't give her a sense of having a future that suffers for the acts of the past, nothing will.
I have that sense, I know that confronting anything hard with her, anything harder than "are you doing the dishes or am I" will get me the answer that carries the potential for making the next few hours of my life a struggle to hold back the anger that may someday see me in a divorce lawyers office or a cheap hotel. I do the dishes. I don't ask.
Did you get gas while you were in town? Why do you need me to bring you gas? The gauge said you had gas? show me.
Nope. get the gas, go to the place, consider making getting the gas for her just another part of buying, insuring and maintaining the car for her. let her have the easy ten.

And have a place to sleep and be able to keep what you have earned, that's the carrot that dangles for me.
 
I don’t agree that any lawyer would guarantee her more. Her disability and diabetes have nothing to do with how much she gets, as far as I know. And if she got a lawyer I’d imagine you would too. From the way you describe her it’s hard to imagine her putting much effort into fighting you, she seems pretty tired.

Fortune-telling will just stress you out. One step at a time. The way I started was by googling “divorce in my county”. There was a website out out by the court and they even had lawyers that offered free consultations to help with the process.
Sorry to have to tell you I have been there, and I was given the advice to weigh all my decisions against the possibility of finding myself struggling to pay the rent on my new place to live and all the while knowing that the place I used to live is being maintained by the rest of my income and I may never see a half of its value, ever. It's a crap shoot, a roll of the dice here. If we get the wrong judge, I would have been better off to just pack and go- better by far.

an uncontested liquidation and split would be the best outcome, on paper. Life isn't lived on paper.

This place is built on land my great grandfather bought. He lived here with his wife and mother in law, my great great grandmother. I bought and built on it 35 years ago, so my grandkids are the seventh generation to walk these fields and go home with this dust on their shoes. There is a huge amount of value that this place and only this place has for me.

Maybe if I was younger I could "rise from the ashes" like it sounds you are doing, I just don't know if there is enough time. I don't really want, I really don't want to find out.
 
What does your wife think about this "separate lives in the same house" idea? Seems like the only way it would really work is if she was willing to let it work.
First, farriers possess an unappreciated skill, patience, and determination that are rare today. And the farriers I know say it is getting worse because the average horse owners are less responsible and involved than ever before. A friend tells me as he spends more time trying to get a new customer's horse into a workable place, he knows that the chances of finding serious problems and having to make repeat visits that are not happily paid for is going up minute by minute. If the horse is stalled and cooperative when he arrives, he knows it is all going to go well most likely. You say you work for people you have known, hopefully you don't spend those same minutes wondering if this call is going to be a bummer like he does. Anyway, a salute to you and all the other farriers I have known

She says it has to work and will do her part but doesn't seem to be enjoying it. I know she will say whatever makes her life easiest, so saying it has to work may be just kicking the can further on, knowing (maybe?) that some day she won't tolerate it and file for that divorce.

So far, so good I guess. Really, her life is pretty much delivered to her, and a warm place to sit in the winter and a cool AC in the summer and a grocery list that is paid for and magically becomes real food should be enough to keep any person happy and willing to live with whatever keeps it all flowing their way, right?

eliminate my caring about lies and the anger it brings out, eliminate my reliance on her for anything and as much as possible eliminate my presence and it should work. It has to, she says.
 
It could probably work if the two involved liked each other but it sounds like you're not very fond of her??
I have severe PTSD. Do I really like or love anyone? I am as fond of her as I get fond of anyone.
Maybe I am fonder of someone that I have seen the worst of than I could ever be of someone that the worst has yet to be seen in?
Yes, she is the mother of my children and we have been married since the idea of being married became something we both wanted. I am fond of her. I care about her. I want the best for her. I want the best for her so much that I am willing to live in a way that is so far from my ideal life I can barely see the value of it except that she will always have this house and someone to snake out the drains and mow the lawn and even, if it is in her best interest, live alone and separate from her both physically and emotionally so that it can happen if we both do our parts. well.
I get freedom from her ability to manipulate me and make me hate myself for being manipulated by another lie. And to see my grandchildren and maybe have this place to pass on to them. It's not what I wanted, but it is the path to so many other things I want so it is the path we are on.
 
It sounds as if she ‘needs?’ (Or would be better off?) to be in an assisted living community. Either her own flat/apt in a tower, with meals served in a central common area (along with group activities, outings, staff, housekeeping, etc.); or the higher level of care with “just” her own room/suite in a hallway of similar, ditto the meals/housekeeping + daily visits by either general staff or nurses, doctors, physical therapists, counselors, etc..
Oh man, that's a can of whoop ass no one gets to see the bottom of.
After one surgery, she refused to even ask for help getting a soda from the bottom shelf of a mini fridge. Five minutes home from the hospital she is on the ground with the contents of the door that she brought down with her as she fell. I was changing the sheets on her bed. I should have done it before I went to bring her home I guess. I have every time since.
I should have taken a picture, sent it to her surgeon, called the ambulance if he didn't and had him recommend a transitional care facility. Instead I asked our adult kids to come see her the next day, which they were planning to do anyway, but to do it all at the same time and help me convince her that she needed to at least ask for help, if not fully accept that she had me looking out for her every need and to accept that I was going to do my best if just allowed the chance to.
She still thinks that the whole intervention was just an attempt to get her to enter transitional care willingly and that it was a waste of time. She got that part right, it was a waste, because she smoked and got an infection and time in a wheelchair and two more surgeries and two more joint reductions after that day. I have spent entire days with her when all I would say to her was "ask for help, yes our daughter is coming today" or "ask for help, yes the dogs have been out".
Currently, her cousin lives with us. She was an RN but Covid got the best of her and she would possibly be homeless today except we stumbled upon the lucky opportunity to offer room and board in trade for taking up the stuff she can't do herself. So far so good and all it is costing me is extra food and showers for one more person. Thats a far lower demand on me than just one of my teenage kids friends were back in the day. Cousin gets a quiet existence in a remote area with room for her cats and easy room and board. And my wife gets the help she needs that would be fought violently (no exaggeration, I have stepped back out of the radius of a swinging walker as a weapon) in any other form, including from me or her own children.

we are getting by.
Have you spoken to a lawyer, yet, to get a
- best case
- probable
- worst case
series of options?

That was one of THE most useful things for me, once I realized my marriage was over. Years, before we actually divorced.
Oh yes, I am nothing if not an insatiable researcher. The decision to stay and live separate lives is not an easy one and not one I made without a pretty good reconnoitering of the legal landscape.
The easiest way to come out of a courtroom feeling good is to only go there if forced to, as a juror, after trying hard to get dismissed for cause by the interviewing lawyers, and after showing up exactly 90 seconds late. Any other entry could bring about a much different exit and I for sure wouldn't be whistling.
 
Good luck and hang in there. Do things you love and care for yourself. Reduce your stress as you said. Not by avoiding what are her lies, but by adding what is good and saying to yourself, wait: there may be more to be known.
As if you are listening at the door of my therapist office.
First, let the echos of the last series of lies die down.
Second, don't ask any questions that will lead to a hard truth or an easy lie
Third, get to a place where mentally I am able to build my strength back up before the next gut punch lands
And finally, become a better person for my own good and for the good of those around me- that will include my children, their children, and my partner in life to a reduced but acceptable level.

Eyes on the prize, keep the faith and so it goes. Thats life, that's what the people say, ridin' high in April and your shot down in May....................get yourself up and get back in the race. Thanks Frank. And @Tinyflame and everyone else on this thread, its all good advice, now I have to do the work.
 
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