can we really live in the same house and live apart?

[enough]

has anyone been able to avoid divorce by just living seperately in the same home?
i have no problem with being platonic and faithful to my vowes, I have so many hobbies and interests and projects that being free of my responsibility (Felt by me) to be a part of her life will allow me to do more of what i enjoy.
And not caring that she lies about anything that will make the next ten minutes of her life easier will reduce my stress levels greatly.
I have nursed her through 4 hip replacements and the infection that caused the extra two surgeries. I have put my life on hold for the last 10 years to try to help her through so many struggles, but i cannot stand the lies and disrespect and lack of gratitude for all of it.
I am being told I have to get my life back and if she isnt going to be a part of it thats her loss. She can sit and color in her adult coloring books, smoking her cigarettes and feeling sorry for herself. I am planning fishing trips and travel and a life free of the frustration of caring for her.
Or, I can just flat disappear.
there can be mo more love for her, I cannot forgive the sum total of lies I have been told, marriage counseling only works if both parties want to try and i am past thinking I could ever forgive enough of it to continue caring.
I have to end the life i thought i wanted and fine one that wont make me hate myself for tolerating it.
Does anyone here have any experience with making someting similar work?

 

[enough]

well, we talked. Yes she wants a marriage, any way it has to be to make it work. And she wants this house forever and she wants our kids to at least have a shot at it, no dissolution, no reverse mortgages, we can't predict the future but we can steer it and keep it away from anything that resembles losing this house. I want my three kids to have it jointly, with the option to sell it, or rent it out and split that, or have one of them buy the other two out. The farmland is easily 2/3 of the value within the next ten years, and to sell that would net whoever wants it the house on an acre and wads of cash for the other two. It could work so many ways, but the discussion has been left at the intent that the three share and determine the rest themselves. Done.
Going forward, she will tell me that I am getting angry for some other reason than a broken promise or betrayed trust in an agreement if I do. And I will work on it if I do, cause that's not something I am aware that I do and it would be an opportunity to do something constructive to save the marriage.
And I will be clearer about the things I am entrusting her with, the compromises, the promises, all will be labeled as being a very important agreement about a very important thing when they are mutually made. To me, this is like getting an agreement in writing that if I pay my phone bill the phone company will provide service, it doesn't feel like it is a layer of clarity that should be necessary between mutually benevolent members of a marriage, but it will help if it is clearer.
And we will avoid the polarity of anger/apathetic, and love/apathy. It is understood that self imposed apathy is my fall back position and I have all my weight on the foot that is already over that line at this point, but like so many things in our past, we are going forward with a mutual purpose and trying to not let the past be a participant in the future problem solving.
We are living together in the same home, we are reliant on each other for very specific things, and I will work the hours and spend the time here that is required to keep my end up. If there is happiness down this path, it will be a new type for me, but anything is better than apathy as a survival tool so I am willing to hope for anything but that

 

[Tinyflame]

Good on the roast and the 'me' time @enough ! Anything sensory helps to pull thoughts away. A bit of softness in a cruel harsh world.

Short on words but understand. Feel the same. In fact, lots of girls in my family, all opted out of marrying. One says she wants to but turned down at least 10 legit men. I calculated it once it was something like 14 milliion-1 odds for the 4 of us. Or maybe 97 million, I can't recall lol. Very much relate to you and @scout86 in understanding it was never viewed or felt in the way it probably usually is by most people. Trust is the opposite side of the coin on receiving it or regard for sure. I think most people seek it (and the attention that goes with it, and in many ways the wrappings- potatoes vs roast lol ), rather than fear it or write it off as impossible or run from it or mistrust it. Then again actual love proper is rare, I think. More transactional often.

@scout86 raises a good point: we often choose what is familiar: where does she stand on her true feelings for others?

On a lighter note, what is good for you today? Enjoy 'something' again!

ETA sorry @enough cross-posted. The antidote to apathy is appreciation and gratitude. Recognizing what you do and are and have been for one another. And not allowing yourself to fall into the comparison-grass-is-greener mindset.

Sounds to me your reaction is flooding. Totally get that too. That is not a fault but a fact. You can choose to agree to come back to a conversation at a set time, but only after you have an opportunity to de-stress.

Sounds like good ground made!

PS Conflict is not the killer. Lack of reciprocity (lack of trust), contempt, criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling apparently are.

It's going to be ok.

 

[enough]

It's going to be ok.

OK is an option going forward, and it may take a lot of adjustment of the meaning of the word. But it is not ruled out or met with a manufactured apathy.

 

[Tinyflame]

Absolutely @enough . I don't mean ok as in tolerable or apathetic. I think as long as you have agency, the ability to change the situation if and when necessary, that is critical. (Not that you are holding it in your back pocket, but that you expect respect and effort, yours and hers. And have respect for yourself.) I don't think conflict is the killer, but I do think not making one's way through it is. And needing updated understanding. Because even if she doesn't get ptsd, there are some things as a spouse she should at least be hopefully mindful of. Especially if you keep repeating it. And especially if you try to do the same for her challenges.

And, far as it goes, new things can be learned. Even at our ages.. (lol)

(Boy, I have to sit on my hands to not type hope that's not useless haha. Will NOT say it (thanks.) )

Still pulling for you!

 

[scout86]

Still pulling for you!

Me too!

Going forward, she will tell me that I am getting angry for some other reason than a broken promise or betrayed trust in an agreement if I do

Maybe it would be better if she ASKED you what you're getting angry about? Then you can consider whether or not the anger is really about the present or if it's somehow about the past. I KNOW that I'm capable of thinking I'm reacting to the present when I'm really reacting to the past, so I get this. (That's what the whole "love is a trick" thing is about.) The challenge is that it's hard to recognize and hard to sort out. Doing that requires some space and time and you can't really do it under pressure. At the same time, unless she's a super good mind reader, I question how she could KNOW what you're feeling anger about. Unless she asked and was willing to hear the answer.

All things considered though, this sounds promising. (I'm kind of an incurable optimist, but that's probably why I'm still alive. LOL) Good luck!

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes, agree with @scout86 , strange but both people's perspectives can be right and yet incorrect. Or at least incomplete. Hopefully you can get to a place where you both can speak freely without being defensive or attacking or shutting down. Those are stifling. And rebuild respect and love and tenderness with and for one another.

 

[enough]

Counseling. In 3 days. On the edge of my seat.

 

[scout86]

Fingers are crossed! Good luck!!!

 

[Tinyflame]

@enough saw a sign , something like ~Love is an absence of judgement.

Thought the thought might help. re: when you go to counselling. At least especially if you feel she also has some positive sentiment there, or you guys did before.

Ugh. Can't find the words. Much luck!!

 

[enough]

the veil of disbelief

Love is an absence of judgement

"I dont want to see it, why, it could be something else, there, it is no longer something I see" said everyone who has ever been in love with the wrong person.

40+ years is long enough to see what I see, love is choosing not to let it be the focus of what you see, or, keeping the judgement and especially the judgemental reaction to yourself.

I get it, and agree, but love evolves and people change and what was once a love that was strong enough to override any negatives has become an existence where we are reliant on each other and responsible for each other, and legally bound to each other, with a common past and a common future. All of these reasons to be together do not override what I have to see as threats to the co-existance, things like trustworthiness, honesty and a sense of integrity, ability to adjust if necessary for the well being of the relationship. There are lots of things I see clearly now but would have easily overlooked if ours was a new and unencumbered relationship. Being totally vulnerable and honest here, the pragmatist in me has to admit, if the goodies made it worth it, the baddies would be easily overlooked.
I am bound by my desire to do the right thing for my wife, and she could do worse before I would be able to drop the veil and look at the whole thing through open and honest eyes. I am pretty sure of what I would see and how my life would change after, so I look away. Melvilles "veil of disbelief". I think it was Starbuck that made the statement about choosing not to see what could reasonably be doubted in Moby Dick, been a long time, read a few other books since. Google that shit.....

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes I understand @enough . And your post could be what you show the counsellor, confidentially. You have much depth and yes I know you are honest.

Nevertheless, I have a feeling..., try to let yourself be surprised at this appointment. (And no @enough , the feeling is not gas or hot air..)

 

[scout86]

love evolves

Boy is THAT ever true! I think this

an existence where we are reliant on each other and responsible for each other,

is a form of love too. But I also think it's important, what you said, that you be able to rely on EACH OTHER. I think it has to cut both ways, at least to a point. The more I've thought about it, sitting here, it does seem to me that what's gained in a long term relationship, once the fireworks die down, often IS things like loyalty and trustworthiness. But then, maybe I'm wrong. I don't have a lot of experience with long tern relationships. With my long term friends though, there's still the "they'd help you hide the body" kind of loyalty. It's just that they might not be as much physical help as they would have been 40 years ago. I hope you can find some useful ideas with the couples therapy. You deserve to be happy. So do she, as far as that goes.