Christian Religion Causes Me Anxiety And Fear.

[just me here]

@ Eleanor: Saying that a church is just made up of people, that it is like a social club or gang is true enough. I agree to a point.

Few gangs have the clout to effect local and national elections, no country club gets their property tax free.
(I am in the USA, our tax law leaves churches and their holdings un-taxed, and the christians and right wing extremists are a huge organised group that can manipulate an election on one topic, abortion, prayer in school, sex education to name a few).

I drive through my town and see baptist, catholic, mormon, and many other denomination and non denomination churches, all have manicured lawns and are well maintained and have huge paved parking lots, all tax free and land that will not be in the tax base again until it is sold someday. Our high school has many small gravel parking lots, the only grass that gets attention is on the football field or baseball diamond and we have to put in temporary classroom trailers.

Something just isn't right.

 

[Eleanor]

@ just me here - well... unless the gang is made up of rich white guys and filed as a 503b or a PAC!

I agree about the lawns tho. And wish the laws regarding political advocacy in churches were better enforced - there have been cases where churches have been threatened with having their tax exempt status revoked - but I can't recall it actually happening.

Here is the thing - and the main point - each group of people has its own dynamic. Institutionalize a group and you add on another set of forces that will ultimately shape the people within the group. So organizations that are run "top down" tend to end up with individuals that show certain traits (passivity, lack of initiative, difficulty in cooperation) more than those which are "bottom up." But how individuals are actually treated one on one in those organizations is determined by the character and culture of the folks in it. As my old political buddy used to say "There is no substitute for having the right person in the office." If you put a mean person in a position of some authority - they are still going to be mean.

The lawn and parking lot disparity may be a reflection of the (apparently) universal rule that school boards are organizations that make even the best of people unable to work together constructively. :grumpy: No solution. Just a generalization from my experience.

If only churches were as good at caring for their people as their buildings and lawns.

 

[The Albatross]

If only churches were as good at caring for their people as their buildings and lawns.

I find by and large, my own direct personal experience is that churches are as good at caring for peopla as their buildings or their lawns. But then I have absolutely no problem with viewing myself as damaged if not disenfranchised.

It really messed me up that people who had no cause to care about me at all, were the ones who taught me what love really was (agape) and what "safe people and situations" were. What appropriate dicorum and socialization was, what politeness and courteousness was. All things that my parents should have taught me. They took a hurt, awkward, wild teen/young woman and accepted me as graciously as they were able... and I tried/and continue to do the same... within the constraints of my personality flaws and quirks as best as I am able.

Church or otherwise, I have never found a pristine and entirely reliable orginization/institution/or commnity... but like I said, human institutions never are or can be, can they? Ideals... and trying to reach the ideal is the best anyone can do.

 

[just me here]

@ The Albatross:

I agree, trying to reach the ideal is the best anyone can do. I worry when I meet people that believe they are saved and have reached the ideal and can now look down their noses at anyone they don't see as having reached their ideal.

I am also a bit scared of people that think they need a pastor and a church and an agenda to be a good person. Frankly I don't trust anyone that needs to be reminded on a regular basis what right and wrong are all about.

 

[The Albatross]

I am also a bit scared of people that think they need a pastor and a church and an agenda to be a good person. Frankly I don't trust anyone that needs to be reminded on a regular basis what right and wrong are all about.

Though this must be your perception, there is so much wrong your idea about why people attend, it bears answering. Christianity is not ethics or morality 101. Though the holy book does contain many lessons of value on ethics and human character building. WORSHIP... the primary reason is because we are called to worship... but it is not the only reason.

People who believe in God form a community, build a church, and do corporeal worship at least as far as the Christian perspective is concerned because the God who we believe created us in His image, created us to BE in relationship with Him. He made clear to the Jews and Christians via his prophets in the old testaments and to us through Jesus, his disciples and the new testament that He his believers are to come together for group worship and prayer, to fellowship together, and to learn and study his word, our holy book the Bible (John 17:17: 'Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.'), and to do good works (biblically this was often for the poor, orphans, or widows... not for salvations sake but because we are to be His instruments in a fallen world.

My personal Christian perspective is that I am in the world not of it. I am surrounded in my waking time by many people with may opinions that are different than what I believe. When I go to my church or to a small group bible study or to a regional conference... there is great comfort, and spiritual renewal in being among and around like minded people... it is a day of rest for my soul and spirit that can help me endure and bear for the coming week. Quite literally, in order to turn away from sin... we are to turn TO God. The purpose of the existence of churches is to provide a safe harbor for group worship free from persecution. It troubled me to read the above bit I quoted. Because though it may be someone elses opinion, it really is not an accurate assessment of what the experience is all about.

Ephesians 5:18-21: 'be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.'

"Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land." Deuteronomy 6:13-15

"Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness." Psalm 29:2

In John 4:24, Jesus tells us that we MUST worship God in spirit and truth. John 4:23-24 ...'But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth.'

Matthew 4:10 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.'

 

[The Albatross]

P.S. It came to mind afterward, but part of a Christian's spiritual armor is the "sword of truth". In the desert, three times Jesus resisted the suggestions of the devil... and his knowledge of "the truth" (biblically Scripture, God's Word) was his weapon.

Sermons... are not guilt inducing or about right and wrong... because they are prepared for and preached to people who already share a belief system. They are expressely for the purpose of teaching, the Word of God for the edification, and building up of God's people. If you are sitting in a pew and ever perceive it that way, you are in need of spiritual renewal or may be pricked by a revelation from your conscience or your Holy Spirit and are in need of repentance or are being called for additional study.

 

[Tinyflame]

I can't blame my Pastor, he was very kind. If anything I feel sorry he was a captive audience, so to speak, bet he wished nothing was said because it's burdensome. Even having the needs is burdensome, let alone when you don't (shouldn't) have to hear about it.

 

[The Albatross]

On the reread, the idea that "people that believe they are saved and have reached the ideal and can now look down their noses at anyone they don't see as having reached their ideal." is perceptual and a self serving belief. If I believe, then I would not have to worry or be fearful of not being acceptable or satisfactory to other people or to God because I can believe, or judge that they are prideful instead.

We are free to be judgmental, we are free to be fearful, worried, and afraid... but the more we focus on it the more our human brains will serve up more of "what it thinks we want more of". The Bible is a very fine understander of how human beings work. That is why, as Christians, we are told to "turn away". Turn away from sin and lift our eyes up to (higher things, holy things, inspirational things, to the God of our salvation) our God. To study his Truth and etch it in our hearts. It is almost like a vaccination against disease... the process and diligent study of "the truth".

I read something just this morning that kinda encapsulates what I want to say... sometimes it's really hard for me to get my idea out. It was part of my daily meditation today (Eugenia Price):

"Peter sounded humble enough when he gasped, “Thou shalt never wash my feet.” But the Lord Jesus saw through Peter just as He sees through us. [snip] As with Peter’s remark in the upper room, it sounds humble enough, but it points directly to our own fancied piety of soul. If I’m humble, I don’t need to tell you. You know it. If you’re humble, you don’t need to tell me. I know it.

Pride is devastatingly subtle. Check your motives when you cringe in the background."

The remedy for pride, is a study in the godly character trait of humility and for searching one's own heart and motives. My grandma would say... "If you're the one who's attention has been called and you're suffering, it's like a seamstress sewing. If the needle pricks, it is the seamstress (the one who's doing it) who experiences the prick, feels the pain, and may have the bleeding.

People who are of spiritual or religious bent are seamstresses... it's all part and parcel of the process.

 

[Tinyflame]

I really don't think or concentrate on 'being saved' or anything like like, one way or another. In that I'm pretty sure they say, no matter what you do it's through grace, not particular actions. So I really get nothing out of judging others, when I do it isn't right.

I only know (in what was my church) they said sin is being unfaithful to God, or a break in your relationship (to God or people).

I'm not sure, there's pride, and then there's just 'reality'. I'm so tired not sure what makes sense. We (I) have a responsibility to be responsible for how I affect or treat others as well, so I don't think that's pride just reality.

I don't expect 'churches' (or the people in them) or 'pastors' or whatever, to know about or understand ptsd, or have to. It seemed more 'ok' I think to ask for help for people you love, or people who are sick etc, but ptsd is permanent. I'm not sure, I'm so tired.

 

[Zef]

My personal Christian perspective is that I am in the world not of it. I am surrounded in my waking time by many people with may opinions that are different than what I believe. When I go to my church or to a small group bible study or to a regional conference... there is great comfort, and spiritual renewal in being among and around like minded people... it is a day of rest for my soul and spirit that can help me endure and bear for the coming week. Quite literally, in order to turn away from sin... we are to turn TO God. The purpose of the existence of churches is to provide a safe harbor for group worship free from persecution.

To me, this paragraph is a very nice description of the positives and negatives of religion. The middle portions describe gaining community, comfort and personal strength from the religion. Those are positive things.

The first and last sentences, though, to me, represent the threat that monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam, etc) pose to the rest of the world.

Being 'not of the world' basically allows Christians to justifiably behave in any way their pastors and leaders tell them to behave. And it is difficult for me to believe that Christians don't do what the leaders tell them, but instead follow the Bible. The Bible which can also be used to gloriously praise the slaughter of innocents depending on which scriptures a leader decides to quote to the sheep.

'Free from persecution' is also dangerous to the rest of us. For most of us on this forum, Christians dominate our cultures. Christians are not persecuted, they are often the persecutors. Being taught that one is persecuted gives believers permission to act in ways damaging to the rest of the world because they believe they are defending themselves.

For instance, someone posted a bunch of scriptures in this thread titled 'Christian religion causes me anxiety and fear'. As a believer, that person apparently thought that she was both defending her faith from an unjustified attack by another poster and also apparently believes that doing so would help others.

But, if one takes a look at this action from the point of view of the original poster, what does it look like to him/her? As someone who is similarly affected by religion-based trauma, I can tell you how I would react. I would consider it an attack, depending on my PTSD-state, it would remind me of my trauma, remind me that my real persecutors are still all around me or it would make me angry and I would have to spend some time telling myself not to strike back and say something like the next line. . .

. . .but all of this doesn't matter because I am part of the world and the persecuted Christian is not. . .so it is OK.

 

[heidi]

Original poster.. Have you thought of checking out a Unitarian church in your area? We have a Universalist Unitarian church in our area that is very inclusive. I think that sort of acceptance is healthy.

I think you can find many of the positives of community, without some of the crazy I don't even know what to call it... I guess maybe just the things that might turn a person off from certain churches.

 

[The Albatross]

Globally there are many Christians who would disagree that they are not being persecuted. Work in 10 minutes, but with all due respect Zef, the topic strayed from responses to the original poster more than a page ago. I gave an opinion without reference to the orignal poster for the portion of the post that you quoted from me. My response is actually to Just Me Here. But I don't have time to respond farther than that.