Cutting Ties With Toxic Family

[WillThereBeCake]

One thing that is really reassuring about a toxic family is that one can be at one's worst, and still be accepted

That was not the case for me. There was no acceptance. It wasn't just me, this family lived on a constant battery of criticism, gossip and manipulation of each other. I didn't get any warm fuzzies that encouraged me to stay in that environment. Most importantly, I realized the skills I'd been taught were going to ruin any kind of interpersonal interaction I ever tried to have with "the outside world".

I know this isn't the case for everyone, and agree with your points Pencil. The loss for me wasn't a detriment, it was more like having a boil removed ;)

 

[Pencil]

I know what you mean, Cake, but I'm talking at a 'presence' level - meaning that no matter how awful, or how much fighting and other stuff going going, it was still a place to spend Christmas, for example. Or, no matter what was going on, they would still know it was your birthday. And, if you fall on your head tonight and get stupid again, they'll accept you with open arms tomorrow for another round of fighting, backstabbing, gossip, power games, and whatever dysfunctional families can creatively come up with.

And that does not mean that it is not a boil, or that there is something comforting about it. I kicked my brother out the day before Christmas last year, as I simply could not carry on for another second. That meant that my daughter and I spent Christmas alone. Spending Christmas alone was WAY better than being in that tense, unhappy, whateverthef*ck set-up. But that does not mean it is not lonely; my friends had their own arrangements with their families.

I'm depressed enough about having to let go of my therapist - I can't get myself into a state about not having a family either :(

 

[Philippa]

Exactly, but you can only do it for yourself, not the entire family unit. Each person has to come to that conclusion on their own.

I think I understand that, but emotionally I am having trouble coming to terms with it...if that makes sense. I did my best to try and get them to see that things need to change if we are to become a functional family...but they don't want to see that, or do what it takes to make that happen, so...not much choice really.

The only thing that pops into mind about this statement is the accounting term, "Sunk Costs". It doesn't matter how much a company (you are the company) has invested into a project, if the future cost/benefit analysis yields a negative, they consider those previous investments as sunk costs, and they walk away. Only you can be the accountant for your emotional bank account. If you see a positive benefits in continuing to invest in these people, then by all means do so. If you are only basing it on previous investments, and it has left you at a net loss, then I would walk away.

Oh I completely agree here, and given that my father views most things in terms of business and investments, including his siblings, I'm sure he would understand this as well.

It is a very realistic way to look at it though. It is an investment of your time and precious energy, and if no good comes of it, then you are just wasting your resources. It was the conclusion I came to, but emotionally I am having a harder time detaching from the decision. It's early days though...my friend, who cut from her family over 20 years ago and hasn't looked back, told me that it gets easier, and much better. I have no reason to not believe her.

 

[WillThereBeCake]

I'm depressed enough about having to let go of my therapist - I can't get myself into a state about not having a family either :(

Then Pencil, this isn't the path for you, at least not right now. You really have to be all in for this to work. For me, being alone was better than being with crazy. Holidays were always a nightmare, so that was no loss, and now I can actual enjoy them, in my own way - calm and happy.

I would just hate to see you get yourself tied up in the helplessness that comes from trying to change people that don't want to change. Acceptance is one thing, denial is another. Keep your head up, your spirits high, and take from it any positives you can salvage.

 

[WillThereBeCake]

cut from her family over 20 years ago and hasn't looked back, told me that it gets easier, and much better. I have no reason to not believe her.

It absolutely does get better when you leave any toxic situation. For me, the only regret I have is that I didn't do it sooner. You learn whole new ways of acting and looking at the world. It sounds corny, but for me, it was like being reborn. I can't say enough how happy I am that I did this long before receiving this diagnosis and dealing with PTSD.

I try to avoid exaggeration, but don't think I am when I say that had I not rid myself of them, I probably wouldn't be here. This condition puts you on the edge, and those jackals would have taken great joy into pushing me over the edge.

 

[Philippa]

That was not the case for me. There was no acceptance. It wasn't just me, this family lived on a constant battery of criticism, gossip and manipulation of each other.

I'm the same, though my father SAID all the right things that sounded like he did accept me, and my brothers told me that they did...but it wasn't what I felt from them, or what their behavior indicated to me. I always had the distinct feeling that I was being spoken about behind my back by my father, to his friends, in a bad light, and there was always this weird competitiveness he tried to lure me into getting into with a cousin who made a lot of money, and my brother. Pitting each other against each other. I saw through it, but my brother didn't seem to.

I had the same criticism, and manipulation onslaught, but somehow I was the one who got the blame for being the manipulative one, when I was consciously careful of that sort of behaviors and could see very clearly that it was them. There was gossip and speaking badly about me from parent to sibling, which turned my brothers against me. I resented them so much for that. They poisoned my brothers minds so much

I didn't get any warm fuzzies that encouraged me to stay in that environment.

Yes, I came to understand at the age of 17 why "those people" I'd heard of in whispers, who left their families behind did what they did, and I no longer judged them as bad for it. It was a breakthrough in my thinking at the time. Prior to that I believed that nothing my family did was bad enough to leave them behind. I believed I had to just grin and bear it, because they're family.

 

[Pencil]

Then Pencil, this isn't the path for you, at least not right now.

No, I've cut all ties with my family. The contact with my brother was a last hiccup; short-lived and predictably pointless. I'm depressed about having to let go emotionally of my therapist, and having no support system, and struggling financially. Just feeling isolated and fragile today, and knowing how much easier life would have been with a family. Life feels like a very very precarious situation. Which, of course, it is :eek:

I wasn't using the word 'acceptance' as meaning that they accept you for you are - simply that in toxic families it is a case of the more the merrier, and the more members the are, the more the exponential potential for mayhem. And so they will always let you back in - there is NO reason for excluding anyone, on the grounds of sanity or insanity. In other words, should you lose your resolve tonight, they will accept you back into the fold tomorrow, gleefully.

And- there is always a sense of belonging, no matter how far removed one might be from their actions, their take on the world, their unique brand of insanity etc. They remain familiar, always.

It is always a place where you can spend Christmas, no matter how much blood splatters the tree.

 

[WillThereBeCake]

No, I've cut all ties with my family.

Then I wish you good luck and good strength. For me, my fragility came from having my family around. I couldn't go forward and find my own footing. It took me awhile to even trust solid ground (emotionally), but I just kept pushing forward, knowing going back was not an option, and it all worked out. Now you have a chance to define yourself and finall get to know yourself, and then you'll know better the type of people you want to surround yourself with.

You will prevail!

 

[Philippa]

It absolutely does get better when you leave any toxic situation. For me, the only regret I have is that I didn't do it sooner. You learn whole new ways of acting and looking at the world. It sounds corny, but for me, it was like being reborn. I can't say enough how happy I am that I did this long before receiving this diagnosis and dealing with PTSD.

I don't like to say the words "I wish I'd..." because there isn't much point in going there...BUT, if I had been wiser, I would not have moved back in with my parents after receiving a diagnosis of CPTSD. I had basically unravelled years of good work healing and lined myself up for even more damage, and I was not just suicidal at the time, but homicidal as well. Those people have no idea how close they came to being strangled in their sleep or killed in some other way. I think I deliberately got myself thrown out of that house, on an unconscious level, because I knew that even homelessness or a domestic violence shelter would have been a better place for me, in the long run...and it was.

It was a huge mistake going back there, but I'd been sexually assaulted, and didn't know where else to go that I'd be halfway safe. They were the devil I knew. I was f*cked up before that, but that experience made me much more f*cked up than I was previously.

I try to avoid exaggeration, but don't think I am when I say that had I not rid myself of them, I probably wouldn't be here. This condition puts you on the edge, and those jackals would have taken great joy into pushing me over the edge.

Mine didn't even acknowledge that I had PTSD, even though they were present at the psychiatrists office. It went in one ear and out the other, and 10 years later, they still don't get it. They only recently acknowledged that "Oh, so you were actually in quite a bad way all those years ago, with the depression and the botched abortion, and...oh well, it's in the past...time to move on."

Yeeeeeah...not really how it works.

 

[Pencil]

Let go a very long time ago. Brother was a 'mistake'. I know who I am. But I have so many issues to deal with, and I am so withdrawn at the moment - not fit for human consumption. Not healthy and happy enough at this stage to form other relationships, and feeling unbearably lonely. And shit scared.

 

[Philippa]

That's a hard place to be in Pencil. I know that place very well. Very very tough. You'll get there though, and it's the right decision to be on your own during this period of endurance and hard times.

 

[Pencil]

It was a huge mistake going back there, but I'd been sexually assaulted, and didn't know where else to go that I'd be halfway safe.

This is the point I've been trying to make, unsuccessfully.

It is easy to say: 'Just cut ties and get out'. It is not that simple. It is not a case of having a bad situation and a healthy, happy life on the other, and having to choose between the two. That would be a no-brainer and the easiest thing in the world to do.

Coming from a toxic family, you are often confronted with TWO negatives.
On the one hand, you have toxic family, but at least 'a place to go to'.
On the other hand, you have lack of toxic family, but you're really on your own.

I'm trying to point out that things can become difficult - it is not only moonshine and roses if you get rid of a sick family. There is a downside as well.

BUT: there really is not choice ultimately - if you want to survive at all, you have to get away from a sick family. I think we all agree with that :), no matter how hard lonely the alternative is.