Daughter idolizes my abuser

[Beemo3780]

My daughter is 17, and I've had full/sole custody of her the entire time. Her biological father wasn't in the picture until he was able to get visitation rights about 4 years ago. He completed a bunch of classes, went to therapy, and got supervised visits for 2 years, the past 2 years have been unsupervised. He only gets about 2 weeks a year, on holidays, but we live 500 miles from him, so daughter has to fly to see him. He is not allowed near me, I've had a protective order for about 10 years now, and it has already been renewed once at the 5 year mark. He is not allowed to contact me either. All has to be done through a third party (my current husband).

My ex was severely abusive, and my daughter remembers it. He has spent time in jail because of his abuse towards me. He has broken 2 of my ribs by kicking me with steel toed boots, he almost fractured my eye socket from punching me in the face (I had a hairline crack on my forehead that I can still feel a bump), broke my nose, he was my living nightmare. He terrorized my family, my friends, I had to move 500 miles away after we divorced because he would not stop and the court system sucks.

He was never physically abusive towards my daughter. He never spent a lot of time with her though. My daughter acknowledges that he was horrible to me, and for years hated him, but since the unsupervised visits, she's been idolizing him. It started out gradual, he would take her on expensive trips, buy expensive dinners, let her do whatever she wanted. He doesn't pay child support or anything for her care, but he always has money to spoil my daughter. We went to court and there's nothing I can do about it. We've exhausted so many avenues. I gave up with court. I had found out he was letting her drink at his house, and I couldn't prove it, and of course, daughter would deny it.

She's a good kid, good grades, has a job, keeps her room clean, has good friends. But she talks non stop about her father like he's the greatest person on the planet. It hurts. It's like none of the horrible stuff he did ever happened. And just because he took a couple of classes and went to therapy doesn't mean anything. He had a girlfriend last year that accused him of abuse. His girlfriend prior to that checked into a mental facility after they broke up. The girlfriend now, his own mother had told her to stay away from him because the girl had just lost her father to cancer and was in a custody battle with her ex. He has a pattern with women. He finds girls that are in a rough patch in their life, love bombs them, and then abuses them. My daughter knows this, and tells me that her father just has a difficult time dating. He has drug problems, he hangs out with sketchy people, he's not stable, and has serious anger issues. My daughter told me he flipped out on a pizza guy for not having change.

I don't know what to do, but my daughter has been talking about how she wants to move where her dad is after she graduates. She talks about him constantly, and tells me all these things her father says like he's her only parent and I have no say in anything. I have full legal custody over her. I'm the parent with the rules though, so how do I even compete with him. I keep having nightmares, and it's brought up all the scary times for me. I'm heartbroken...

 

[blackemerald1]

@Beemo3780 - :hug:

Can I start by telling you that it will not last forever and your daughter is going to grow up and make all kinds of decisions that you will either be so proud of or just cringe about.... and you have to let her.

She's a good kid, good grades, has a job, keeps her room clean, has good friends.

^^So..every time you feel like things might go badly for her.. pull yourself back into the present and remind yourself of this^^.

She's been raised by you and you have raised her well. Have confidence that she will navigate her way through this phase and sooner than later will stop making excuses for his bad behaviour. She will gain some perspective and it's not going to always be that her father is a super-hero.

But she talks non stop about her father like he's the greatest person on the planet. It hurts. It's like none of the horrible stuff he did ever happened.

^^Because he is her father and right now...he is new and novel and thus far has not disappointed her so much that she's unwilling to forgive him or take the rose-coloured lenses off. She doesn't recognise what you 'discovered' about him... and it took you a while.

Let her talk and listen and keep listening... do not find fault with her talking about him. She's talking to you...and that's a good thing.

She's still a child Beemo. Let her live the fantasy while it lasts and be there ready to catch her when she finds out he cannot sustain the lifestyle and the responsibilities etc., Help her grieve when she discovers he really is a mere mortal and she isn't the most important person in the world - to him.

Yes it hurts... because he hurt you and you undoubtedly want him to hurt back and why should he be seeing your beautiful daughter you worked so hard to raise properly? Right? But it doesn't work like that and that sucks.. sorry.. I wish it were easier.

You are always going to be her mother and you have the most influence over her life - in the past and going forward - know your position is so powerful but use it very wisely.

I'm the parent with the rules though, so how do I even compete with him.

You don't need to compete with him. Indeed, I'd suggest you do not. Embrace all of his 'gifts', 'trips' everything he wants to bestow on your daughter bc it seems you are not going to see a red cent of actual useful money. So if he wants to pay and it doesn't effect or negate other obligations... let him.

Her demands are going to become bigger and better as she matures. One day he will have to say 'no'.

You do not have to pre-empt that day or worry about it. Just please be ready to catch her when she falls from his grace and his girlfriends and whoever start to take precedence. Be there for her then. No one needs to compete.

Yeah.. you are the parent who has the rules. Believe it or not.. kids push against rules, ignore rules, challenge rules, snub rules but ultimately thrive when there are rules..

So good on you for being the one who created and enforced the rules.

One day... maybe when she is a lot older... she will turn around and recount some of those 'moments' when she pushed against your rules... and she will love and appreciate you all the more bc she is going to understand how hard it was to stick to the rules. I hope that makes sense?

I'm heartbroken...

Yes.. :hug: I can tell. You feel betrayed? You have done the hard yards... and she seems to be going to the dark side...??

But she's not.

She's got to find out who he is and who she is. This feels hurtful for you but I'm sure it's a natural process.

She wants to find out for herself who her father really is and though he has a dreadful track record and you know exactly what sort of character he is, you cannot poison his reputation. Please do not do that.

Be caring, be present, be aware, be wary of what is going on but don't step in and 'ruin her relationship' with him. Let him do that all on his own.

You have come such a long way with your daughter. You say he's never hurt her physically and I think if you were worried you'd take legal action? So.. am I right in thinking it's mostly about how obsolete you feel right now? If so, don't worry your status as mother and number one go to person when the world turns to complete crap.. is embedded in and none of his antics can move you.

 

[shimmerz]

I have a slightly different take on this whole thing. I suggest you get your daughter into therapy ASAP. I would talk to the therapist first about what your concerns are, because this conversation needs to happen between a neutral party and your daughter I believe.

In the meanwhile I look up family dynamics. Narcissistic or sociopathic behavior, golden child, scapegoating. And in the meanwhile keep up your strength so that you’re strong if and when this whole thing blows up in your daughters face.

 

[Beemo3780]

I've been in therapy for years, and my daughter just stopped going to therapy after about 5 years of going.

My ex scares me to this day. He repeatedly does things that are violent, and he will not leave me alone. For example, this Thanksgiving, my daughter had to spend a visit with him, and my husband and I just had a baby. Flights are expensive around the holidays, and my family still lives where my ex is. We decided rather than fly my daughter up to ex, we'd drive up there to also visit family, and my husband would meet him at the police station to drop off/pick up daughter to him. This is something that is in our custody agreement. Ex demanded to know where I would be staying, wanted to do the custody exchange at my family's house, repeatedly asking my husband in an email, who are you staying with. Knowing what is in our custody agreement and knowing he's not allowed near me. Family doesn't have an order of protection on him anymore. My husband stuck to his guns, and refused to answer where we would be (not his business) and ended up meeting him at the police station like planned.

Back in June, while my daughter was taking exams at school, my ex was texting my daughter pictures of me with the caption "I miss my girl". I screenshot that after she sent it to me, and it's in a folder with all his other stalking issues. We've been divorced over 9 years now. I have not spoken to him since 2010. I have not been near him other than in court since then either. He has repeatedly tried to manipulate my daughter against me. He took her to Disney the first visit he had with her unsupervised. My husband and I had been planning a week long trip there, my ex took her there for 2 days just so he could be there first. It's been expensive trips to amusement parks all over the country, gaming systems, video games when they are first released, expensive dinners... She just spent New Year's with him where he bought surf and turf for her. He constantly asks my daughter about me. The last time he dragged us to court was to make up this huge story about how I was mentally unstable and sleeping all the time, and he wanted full custody with child support. I had 4 surgeries on my esophagus at that time after having a serious illness where my throat closed up from scar tissue. I was sick. His court BS got thrown out.

He's 45, lives with a bunch of 20 something guys in a small house near a college campus (ex never went to college), he parties with 20 somethings all the time. The only girls he dates are ones that are easy prey that he can manipulate. He works off the books, we haven't been able to track his income.

My husband and I have a nice, stable home in the suburbs on a few acres of land. We have a very normal homelife. We send my daughter to a private high school. She's been in theater productions, art shows, after school activities. But we have rules, he doesn't.

I don't talk to or about my ex. He is my nightmare. It hurts too much to talk about him because he could have killed me and spent time in jail for that. When he was able to get visitation, I was terrified for my daughter, and every time she is with him, I worry. I kinda regret not talking about him, because now it's like he was able to buy a bunch of stuff and all of a sudden he's awesome. She's a teenager eager to get out into the world, he's making all these wild promises to her. She doesn't even want to talk about college anymore because "Dad never went, he says I don't need to go". Or "Dad says you're just too strict" or "Dad says I should do whatever I want". I get all these things constantly, and he's undermining my parenting, and it's just more abuse from him.

I'm not feeling like I'm not useful to my daughter anymore. I'm terrified for my daughter. Even my father told me that once she has to worry about getting arrested out with her dad maybe she'll smarten up. 18 she can make her own decisions, and I can't stop her, but this is not settling well with me.

 

[Nessa7]

I also think that it would be a very good idea to get your daughter back into therapy. What you describe in your first post is depressingly common, but your second post is chilling.

 

[blackemerald1]

So your daughter has just finished therapy and at this time... she's not done or said anything beyond what is actually normal teenage girl things? I'm not saying don't keep an eye on what's going on - hell yes! But...how would you justify a return to therapy?

Plenty of teenagers have far from perfect parents (both) and adjust very well. Your daughter has two parents who are strong and solid and one that is random... Don't project all of your fears onto her or she will resent you and minimise what you do say, when you do say it.

A neutral third party (therapist) is very valuable when all the participating parties know the value of the third party being neutral.

Your daughter is likely to view the neutral third party or therapist as either an advocate of your will or lacking 'inside' knowledge about how fabulous her father really is and refuse or fail to engage in anything meaningful. Remember she is a teenager.

My husband stuck to his guns, and refused to answer where we would be (not his business) and ended up meeting him at the police station like planned.

^^So though this was awkward, stressful and unnecessary - your husband called his bluff and prevailed. That's a win for you, your husband and your family. Keep the emails and any other proof he tried to intimidate you all and move on.

Knowing what is in our custody agreement and knowing he's not allowed near me. Family doesn't have an order of protection on him anymore.

^^Your family may want to remedy this by obtaining an Order.. or not.. but they'd need justification.

Btw... If you are with your family visiting and you have a protection Order - doesn't that then extend to where you are at any given time.. like with your family? So if he came near you whilst you were with your family he would be breaching the Order? Just asking bc Order's can be general or specific and idk...

Either way he'd have to be extremely foolish to stalk your family...

Obtain legal advice if you are concerned.

and it's in a folder with all his other stalking issues.

^^Excellent.. keep your lawyer or the local police informed.

Just in connection with this... idk the law in your country but in mine the Prosecution does not have to establish mens rea to establish stalking... just simply that the victim was scared. Does this apply to your region?

2 days just so he could be there first.

^^Probably but does it matter? Did it detract from your visit? Are you engaged in one up man ship with this ex so much that you really care? Could you have discussed going to another place with your husband and daughter instead?

He constantly asks my daughter about me.

^^She will get sick of being interrogated about you. Don't you see? You represent the steady, boring, predictable component of her life and if he is trying to get the goods on you via your daughter - what is she going to say that any court would entertain listening to... seriously? You have the runs on the board here.. keep some perspective.

His court BS got thrown out.

And rightfully so... The Court will keep a record of this vexatious type of litigation he indulges in. It will not serve him well.

Are you frightened he is trying to use the system to get back at you by taking custody of your daughter legally? Get some legal advice is this is a genuine fear.

He works off the books, we haven't been able to track his income.

This is extraordinarily frustrating and very common. You are not alone btw.

He's 45, lives with a bunch of 20 something guys in a small house near a college campus (ex never went to college), he parties with 20 somethings all the time. The only girls he dates are ones that are easy prey that he can manipulate. He works off the books, we haven't been able to track his income.

I guess all I can say to this is let it go.. You should only be concerned with his lifestyle when and if it impacts your daughter. So far that doesn't seem to be the case. All of the rest of his lifestyle choices are no longer relevant to you though they do very much indicate his immaturity. Don't worry he's 45 YEARS OLD. Everyone starts looking a bit haggard from 45... age and his lifestyle will catch up on him. lol.. Sooner than later even the vulnerable young women...will smirk and walk away.. Not that this is relevant...

We have a very normal homelife.

Good...you have done extremely well and keep it normal. Your daughter needs that normality to rely on.

I kinda regret not talking about him, because now it's like he was able to buy a bunch of stuff and all of a sudden he's awesome.

Only to a immature teenage mind. Give it some time... she will grow up, he will run out of tricks or it will all get predictable to her and he will no longer be awesome!

She doesn't even want to talk about college anymore because "Dad never went,

If that is her only reason.. or just the musings of a teenager considering all of her options then sure discuss it with her. Take her to career counsellors etc., Her school - being private should have loads of those types of experts onboard... my children's did. Don't bite unless it's necessary. Do point out she is a young woman and when her father was her age the whole world was entirely different. But bring in the experts when dealing with advanced study and careers.

Dad says you're just too strict" or "Dad says I should do whatever I want". I get all these things constantly, and he's undermining my parenting, and it's just more abuse from him.

No.. she's using a well honed and highly irritating strategy most teenagers use with their parents. "Divide and Conquer"!! Don't let it get to you and don't make more of it than it is. You have your rules, boundaries and expectations... keep them front and centre.

Try not to attribute every single thing your daughter does that isn't nice etc., to your ex's influence. Not bc it may not be true but bc every time you do so you give him power and you pull him into your home and your relationship with your daughter. That will get tiring and may cause more problems. Keep her the focus and her ideas as the focus...

So.. example... "Dad says your shoes are too pink" Answer.."What do you think about my pink shoes?" Weird I know.. but bring it back to what she's thinking...

Even my father told me that once

Hmm. your Dad is correct. But if she is a minor and is caught up in something your ex is doing - well you will have a strong case to ask a Court to restrict custody or request supervision during custody.

@Beemo - I know this ex has been extremely abusive towards you and I am not minimising the harm he has done. If you are truly and genuinely fearful for your daughter - tell the police or your lawyer. Otherwise a lot of what is going on is very predictable mindgames by your ex.

Do you think he would risk doing anything to your family, daughter or you... he's been to prison once already? A court would probably fast track him back if he played up and broke the law.

I also understand that a lot of what he is doing skims just under what is illegal but it's still morally ugh... Trust in your daughter, keep your expectations of her high and keep her accountable... she is still a teenager and they can be challenging at the best of times. :hug:

 

[EveHarrington]

Does she know he tried to kill you?

Maybe she’s now old enough to know more of the truth.

 

[blackemerald1]

Maybe she’s now old enough to know more of the truth.

Or maybe not, since the teenage daughter is already railing against the mother for being too strict, having rules etc...

You cannot put an old head onto young shoulders... and it would make no difference to the current Custody arrangements at all.

 

[EveHarrington]

Or maybe not, since the teenage daughter is already railing against the mother for being too strict, having rules etc...

You cannot put an old head onto young shoulders... and it would make no difference to the current Custody arrangements at all.

It was just a suggestion.

Please feel free to ignore my response.

 

[Abstract]

I don't know. I think risk is an important factor to consider. Lets hope she continues to be protected from his aggression but I guess there is no guarantee. There are also other ways it could affect her life. If he targets you again. If he targets a boyfriend in the future. I'm far from sure but wonder if knowing a bit more as a 17 year old may be in her best interests. Risk reward ration wise. Before she is legally an adult and you have no legal control.

Regardless I think you should consider setting a boundary with her about him and you. You need to protect yourself here. That you support her doing what she wishes when it comes to her relationship with him but that you won't accept any talk from her about him and you. And to not share any personal information about you and your life with him. I'm assuming she knows he went to jail and why. ? It might be worth starting this conversation with her by saying that when you first met him he was charming and love bombed you but that there are good reasons why you are no longer in contact and why there is a restraining order out. It may plant a seed there. Maybe that he brainwashed you initially? That charm and attractive qualities can coexist with dangerous traits in someone. It might be worth mentioning what you are OK talking to you about when it comes to him. I know you would rather not have anything but at the same time leaving the channels of communications open and keeping tabs on what is happening is a wise choice. What does your t think?

She may hold this against you and side with him but maybe that's worth it if it helps her be more aware. The rest is up to her unfortunately. I am so sorry. It must be agonising.

She is obviously vulnerable desperate for her fathers love and being manipulated by him.

 

[shimmerz]

Yeah, see this is where this kind of relationship with children and abusive ex can become really dangerous.

Three decades into their lives even after all my children have seen and been a part of they still talk to abusive ex about things that are very personal to me and things that could be used against me. And have. Because he fishes for them . And if this guy has been fishing for information re-family friends for so long, of course he is going to do the same with his daughter.

I still haven’t learned how to resolve this issue with kids giving out information and it has screwed me over so many times. Almost killed me 100 times over. I’ll be watching this thread because I really would like to know how to shut kids down in this type of arrangement. Kids have no concept of the dangers out there with having a dangerously abusive ex spouse.

 

[grit]

I am sorry you had this experience and still struggle with this.
You said she does not have the same experience iwth him and this is her father and I think it is good if a child idolize her father.

I am a firm believer that the relationship between a child and parent is sacred and I feel you are interfering with this. As long as he treats her good, what he does in other places are not her business and I hope you are trying to interject your own experience and consciousness into her.
What you can do is allow her to grow up strong, independent and let her decide when or if she can see him for who he is.

I can only imagine this is not hard to hear because you have different experience but she is old enough to make this decision and I even wonder if she is more like him after all this is her father.

Your title is interesting that you do not want to even acknowledge this is her father and your abuser all in one person.