Denial Of Flashbacks, Intrusions And Dissociation.

[faraway]

what I think I may now be doing if looked at it from this perspective is hanging on for dear life to the Self and attempting to ignore or quieten the parts.

That would suggest that, in actual fact, a 'manager' is in control, not true Self. Managers are tenacious things and need to be gently prised out of the cockpit. :p I've got loads of managers who rotate control depending upon the situation. IFS says that if you feel anything other than compassion and curiosity, it's a part that's thinking/feeling, not Self.

Absolutely you shouldn't do EMDR without trust and stability/containment. We're doing this IFS stuff because I have massive trust and containment issues and am completely incapable of generating a 'safe place' in my mind.

 

[Abstract]

. IFS says that if you feel anything other than compassion and curiosity, it's a part that's thinking/feeling, not Self.

Hmmm.... interesting. I do think the Self is then there doing quite a lot these days but don't suppose yelling at myself that "I am fine" whilst self injuring myself could be interpreted as compassionate or curious. Maybe not.

I think its also possibly that my hold on the Self feels tenuous and therefore looking at the rest feels like I could easily loose hold of it. And then we get to dissociation and I am not sure how that affects how I feel. I think it does form part of it.

Sorry that you too have trust and containment issues Faraway :hug: and glad that you have found a way that is helping you get past that.

 

[Hashi]

faraway, I just wanted to say that I think what you've said about IFS is very interesting.

I do something similar but different in looking at different aspects of myself (I work with archetypes) - I prefer to say aspects because as you say they're not split off but just various facets of me, in addition to a sort of essential self which I'm guessing is the Self in IFS. I do dialogues with them too. I think any model that resonates with us where we can see and work with what's going on within us is incredibly helpful. It also gives me more containment and safety when working on things.

There are a couple of things I'd say about safety when doing anything like this. I think Abstract makes a good point about stability. I do tons of work on safety generally, and I also do it around any kind of work like this - visualising things to keep me safe, telling the archetypes before I start that they can only talk in a way that's constructive and compassionate etc.

I'm also aware that there have been times when it would have been overwhelming to have engaged with one or another of them, and I've either made sure any work with those ones was extremely contained and limited, or have stayed away from it altogether until I could handle it better. The Child archetype, for example, is very destabilising for me to even think about. I know I can't leave that forever, but it's still not yet time.

In addition to understanding myself and my patterns of thought and behaviour, the most helpful thing for me in working with different aspects of myself is to see how they can help me and each other. In other words, to be able to see the qualities I have in myself that I can call on to help me with difficult things.

 

[faraway]

but don't suppose yelling at myself that "I am fine" whilst self injuring myself could be interpreted as compassionate or curious.

Uh. No. Definitely not compassionate or curious!!! :(

It's your self that should be doing the holding. Gently and compassionately holding all the parts into a nice, helpful, holistic group that works together to make your life the best it can be.

I would imagine that most people on here have trust issues, no? What's worked for me is figuring out that it's parts of me that lack trust. That way I can negotiate my DO NOT GO BACK TO THIS MAN EVER!!! voices better. :/ There is at least one part of me that trusts that he is good at his job and that he wants to help me. I am trying to give this one the ultimate control in this respect.

I do something similar but different in looking at different aspects of myself (I work with archetypes)

In the book Schwartz talks about this and how his model builds on Jungian archetypes (and other models which work with aspects / parts / etc). His model definitely isn't the only one to do this kind of work at all. I'm pleased that you also find it helpful.

I totally agree about the stability point as well. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that Abstract do the work on her own, I have repeatedly stated that I thought, if the idea interested her, she should only do it with a therapist. I haven't gotten anywhere near my exiles yet - my managers won't let me - but like your child archetype, I know that when I do, it's going to be very tough. I do have a feeling that work like this is the only thing that will get me to meet them (the exiles / children) though.

 

[Hashi]

I totally agree about the stability point as well. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that Abstract do the work on her own

Apologies. You made this very clear, and I should have acknowledged that you stressed someone to do it with a therapist. I didn't mean my post to make it sound otherwise.

I think where I'm coming from is still needing to do a lot of work on safety ourselves. I completely trust my therapist, and I still do loads of my own work on safety because I have to. When I started working with archetypes it was with a counsellor, but the dialogues were done on my own then discussed with him. I would also do things beforehand to feel/be safe during the session. I still do this with every therapy session.

I just think we can't do too much work on safety, generally. My view is that it's not about having a "safe place" to go to when we need it, but working all the time to be in a "safe state".

 

[Hashi]

I was actually going to post something more general about safety.

Abstract, if it's OK to ask, have you done much work on safety and are you doing any now? By that I mean things like grounding, and building up your emotion regulation skills and coping resources. In my case, also visualisation and other imagery for psychic protection.

For me, recovering each memory and then the various stages of allowing them to be real has always waited until I'd achieved a bit more strength and a bit more stability. Not that it's possible to be 100% safe and nothing can throw us off balance, but to be "safe enough" as my therapist says - to have enough resilience and resources to cope with the inevitable effects of remembering, processing, and feeling things are real.

When we're avoiding something, there could be a good reason for that. Maybe we're not prepared enough for it yet. I don't know if this applies to you - it might not - but sometimes rather than pushing ourselves to process something, or feeling negative about the fact that we aren't doing that, maybe the solution is to focus on preparing for it. Rather than thinking right now about addressing trauma issues or starting therapy, could it help to focus on getting more stable, stronger and safer generally?

 

[Abstract]

Faraway, I am glad you are finding a way of managing the

DO NOT GO BACK TO THIS MAN EVER!!!

voices.

Hashi, I too immediately thought of Jungian therapy when I read your post. I was familiar with the Jungian perspective when it comes to the self and how we are made up. I definitely have felt that personality is not singular and believe that we are all made up of many different aspects of our personality. Its interesting to hear about your treatment approach. I think I would find looking at them as "aspects" less threatening.

My ability to be safe has been totally transformed in the last few years. Like going from only being able to speak single syllabus words to being able speak fluently if with care and effort.

I think I have become trapped by my attempts to stay in a safe state at present. Certain things are inevitably destabilising. Such as finding a therapist. There has to be a balance between a safe state and actually doing what one needs to do and I have not found it. I have gone from no awareness of safety or ability to manage self care to being totally frozen in an attempt at self preservation that I know is a dead end.

 

[faraway]

but sometimes rather than pushing ourselves to process something, or feeling negative about the fact that we aren't doing that, maybe the solution is to focus on preparing for it.

I totally agree with this. I know the only reason I am able to trust my therapist at all (and I think, little by little, I will end up almost completely trusting him), is because I am at the end of the road and have been for the last few years. It's my admission of this to myself that is enabling me to try this. I think letting the understanding that I actually can't fix/ignore/avoid/solve myself by myself sink in for a few years is the same thing as preparing for this work. That's kind of backwards and probably not entirely what you mean, but I suspect that we each prepare for healing the trauma in our own sweet (and terribly fecking sour!!!) ways.

 

[faraway]

I have gone from no awareness of safety or ability to manage self care to being totally frozen in an attempt at self preservation that I know is a dead end.

I know that dead end - it's funny, when I wrote 'the end of the road' above, I nearly wrote 'dead end' instead. I hope you find yourself in the place where you are ready to seek out the help you need soon, Abstract. :hug:

 

[Abstract]

Hi Hashi. Thanks for asking. I saw your post after posting mine.

I had no help with most of this stuff despite having been in therapy for a huge portion of my life. It astounds me that noone ever even realised what was happening for me it seems. Not once was grounding mentioned to me in all those years. But I was presenting my issues as being about other stuff and going to people that it seems had no idea about trauma. And I certainly didn't think it was necessary. Hence me being re injured in so many ways in therapy over the years. I shall answer properly with what I had previously planned to say but in short a fallout in therapy about 3 years ago started me developing awareness of all of this. Since then I have had trauma therapy but dissociated so much it was almost impossible to have any conversation throughout. I do know a fair amount and feel I am not bad and that is as a result of research of my own in the last two years and online support and advice. My last therapy experience was the first where i felt I was getting this type of information even if indirectly. I have of course had all the CBT stuff years back although it wasn't aimed at trauma.

In order to get over an eating disorder one has had to have learned a lot about emotion regulation, distress tolerance, and general coping so I think these are all quite good. What is missing is information on how that fits in to a lot of stuff around trauma and specific triggers and related things I am struggling with that I have never spoken about to anyone. I don't have ways to cope with these as I don't really have an understanding o them or an idea of what way should be the right direction. .

I know nothing about visualisation though.

u Not that it's possible to be 100% safe and nothing can throw us off balance, but to be "safe enough" as my therapist says - to have enough resilience and resources to cope with the inevitable effects of remembering, processing, and feeling things are real.

When we're avoiding something, there could be a good reason for that. Maybe we're not prepared enough for it yet. I don't know if this applies to you - it might not - but sometimes rather than pushing ourselves to process something, or feeling negative about the fact that we aren't doing that, maybe the solution is to focus on preparing for it. Rather than thinking right now about addressing trauma issues or starting therapy, could it help to focus on getting more stable, stronger and safer generally?

I think you might have a point here. Maybe I need to look at it that way. I need to discuss what my mind is doing when I try to look for a therapist but essentially I am physically blocked from doing so and no amount of pushing changes that. And it has been happening for about a year now. So my mind definately down not feel safe doing so at present.

It is as if I was "perfect" at self care and safety in terms of having recovered from the eating disorder and then the reality of the trauma stuff popped up and everything I thought I knew or could cope with has been turned upsidedown. I don't feel I have good enough coping when it comes to trauma related issues.

 

[Hashi]

I think I have become trapped by my attempts to stay in a safe state at present. Certain things are inevitably destabilising. Such as finding a therapist. There has to be a balance between a safe state and actually doing what one needs to do and I have not found it. I have gone from no awareness of safety or ability to manage self care to being totally frozen in an attempt at self preservation that I know is a dead end.

Oh, Abstract. This sounds so painful and difficult.

You're right, being frozen in an attempt at self preservation isn't going to take you anywhere. I just mean first getting safe enough to be able to find a therapist, to be able to actually do what you need to, without it being destabilising to the extent that it seems to be.

I see it as an intermediate step. Rather than going from frozen self preservation to looking for a therapist, to go from frozen self preservation to working intensively on safety (around the issues that feel the most unsafe), and then to looking for a therapist.

But I know I'm not in your shoes, and obviously you need to do what you feel is right for you.

Sending you lots of support.

 

[Hashi]

Oops, cross posted with your last post. Will read it now.