Different patterns and why we have a hard time changing our roles

[Sideways]

I feel triggered and offended by your last post.

I’m sorry you felt offended. Obviously I can’t know why my responses were ‘triggering’ for you.

Your response to grit was not ok either.

That’s what the Report function is for. Although, I’m not entirely sure where I’ve stepped out of line. I got challenged to reconstruct my relationship with my T as ‘intimate’, rather than ‘professional’...and that was weird!

For someone who is so comfortable in their position on relationships, you certainly appear defensive and full of charge for what seemed to me like a small challenge coming from grit

Not particularly charged. Still not sure why I need to challenge my thinking about being single (which is what you challenged me to do). My T seems to think me staying single for a while is a good idea:confused:

My original intension in no way implies tha things you write.

Only, it does...see further below

You have been a long term member and I do not need to tell you how to be nice.

No. You don’t.

I didn’t mean to offend you by expressing my opinion. It’s helpful to me that you’ve let me know “I was offended by what you said”. That part of your post was constructive.

You are not the consensual voice of this forum.

Thank heaven for that. I’m quite sure I wouldn’t express any opinion at all, ever, if I thought I had to speak on behalf of everyone.

By avoiding relationships, we avoid having to negotiate those needs. And like with anything else the less we practice at something the worse we get.

And here it is. Just like in the OP, I’m being challenged to consider my issues, simply because I’d like to be single for now (and probably for a long time). Not because I’m asexual, but because I think I’d be really dysfunctional in a relationship right now, and I’d like to prioritise me and my recovery.

and expect them to do the same.

So, surely me having an opinion about issues I saw with your original premise is okay then...?

 

[grit]

The beauty of humanity is full of contradictions and just holding the ones that are challenging us a bit longer, a bit deeper and learning their genesis and if lucky, accepting them so they are no longer burden on the body.
Thank you for expressing yourself....all of you. It is not easy to even have relationships online without touching each other deeply.

Excuse me
I never ever implied

"That’s what the Report function is for. Although, I’m not entirely sure where I’ve stepped out of line. I got challenged to reconstruct my relationship with my T as ‘intimate’, rather than ‘professional’...and that was weird!"

Maybe read my original post. My failed challenge was simply your definition of relationship is skewed. You have relationships where you must always negotiate who you are, boundaries, space, energy, etc....including family friends and therapist....never ever said you need intimacy like sex with therapist....But yes therapy relationship is professional intimate relationship...as close as spouse without the physical or sexual.

Please let us stay in topic.
Thank you

 

[Butterfly64]

I live in Denmark. 44% here live alone. Half do not want to ever change that. It is certainly less stressful. The divorce rate is 60%. Men tend to complain about the lack of intimacy, sex and difficulty in finding wives. 70,000 men in relationships have filed physical abuse from women. More and more Eu countries are making emotional abuse a crime with up to three year penalty. Everyone here talks about boundaries. The stats also show that the higher level of education, the more we tend to reason that we do not do well in relationships. This makes me think that it is the way we think about relationships that are causing society to change. Even Latin countries are changing the way they think. It's not a right or wrong thing but it definitely makes life more difficult for those who want to share.

Same country here ? and I agree. Single is the new normal....maybe because a lot of people have been hurt in a relationship so they don’t have the energy to try again. Friends with benefits is very popular I think and as I could never ever do that, it is very frustrating that this is what a lot of people apparently want...a f*ck buddy. I am very well educated and I definitely want a relationship, but I have to admit that being involved with a sufferer for two years has affected me...I simply do not know, whether or not I have the energy to get to know a man again. I would rather stay single than have a friend with benefits

 

[Gs172003]

I live in Denmark. 44% here live alone. Half do not want to ever change that. It is certainly less stressful. The divorce rate is 60%. Men tend to complain about the lack of intimacy, sex and difficulty in finding wives. 70,000 men in relationships have filed physical abuse from women. More and more Eu countries are making emotional abuse a crime with up to three year penalty. Everyone here talks about boundaries. The stats also show that the higher level of education, the more we tend to reason that we do not do well in relationships. This makes me think that it is the way we think about relationships that are causing society to change. Even Latin countries are changing the way they think. It's not a right or wrong thing but it definitely makes life more difficult for those who want to share.

How do you define emotional ebuse enought to where the right person goes to jail and not just somebody who got their feelings
That's probably for another thread

Same country here ? and I agree. Single is the new normal....maybe because a lot of people have been hurt in a relationship so they don’t have the energy to try again. Friends with benefits is very popular I think and as I could never ever do that, it is very frustrating that this is what a lot of people apparently want...a f*ck buddy. I am very well educated and I definitely want a relationship, but I have to admit that being involved with a sufferer for two years has affected me...I simply do not know, whether or not I have the energy to get to know a man again. I would rather stay single than have a friend with benefits

My Irish sister in law is married to a man from Norway and just got married two years ago. It's not everybody.

 

[Butterfly64]

How do you define emotional ebuse enought to where the right person goes to jail and not just somebody who got their feelings
That's probably for another thread

My Irish sister in law is married to a man from Norway and just got married two years ago. It's not everybody.

I am confused? Not everybody who what? Remains single?? Because that is not what either @candor or I say/claim. However it is a fact that more and more people remain single for different reasons, be it PTSD, having been hurt before or simply because online dating has made it so much easier to hook up just for the fun of it.

 

[Tinyflame]

I apologize I haven't read all posts, but I similarly have to agree that there is a cultural influence (naturally), and many influences are a reflection of the times.

However, I very much disagree (for myself) that:

therapy relationship is professional intimate relationship...as close as spouse without the physical or sexual.

Speaking only for myself, to me there is a huge difference in whether it is a professional or personal relationship. Though all interaction is inter-relationally, I define closeness in terms of trust, mutual disclosure, interdependence or interconnection, and knowing you have each other's back, and heart, and best interests in mind for each other. The boundaries by necessity and choice are very different. For example, I work in a capacity that involves 'intimate' acctions; in no way however does that mean I would equate that to 'a relationship'. I may develop a relationship in terms of caring (which is present anyway), but as I say, speaking for myself, that is a failure to recognoze boundaries and realities, IMHO. I would also like to think I too (as do they) personally have a choice in who to 'choose' being in 'relationship' with, and with mutual consent, and that involves far beyond disclosure as the main criteria. (Let alone required disclosure.) The same analogy could be said for FOO; the info about each other may be immense, but it does not necessarily mean the interactions are informed, loving or committed. (Something I think many people expect by definition in a relationship.) So one couldn't assume it typifies a 'close family', on such a basis alone.

I think there are many reasons for being single, and some include recognizing that a relationship (or the people within it) may not be ready or realistic for the long haul, or just not the person for you, at the exclusion of others (if that's expected). It doesn't always need a pathological or selfish reason. Sometimes, it just isn't the choice (for whatever reasons) the person wants to make at the time. Because it could even be argued, if you can't be comfortable with yourself single, you may be in a place to be putting unrealistic expectations on a partner. JMHO though. But research bears it out. Interdependence is a balance.

 

[grit]

To recover from relationship trauma, therapy is the method to do so. One has to allow intimacy and vulnerability in a boundaries relationship that will end one day ....that end date is crucial even if it is long. It is not like a lawyer or doctor having something to fix. It is unique relationship. Personally I see it this way. I allowed all attachment and courage to be seen by another and I recover greatly in the process. This is important difference.
Now the question why people feel so hurt personally when the relationship with therapist is broken or us distrupted without mitigation? Why do we talk about trusting them? Why is it harder than choosing a doc or a lawyer? Worth exploring.
I do not want to take away from the poster. She has valid points in her post but I felt the need to clarify my comments by no means not to convince anyone. After all it is that unique relation.

 

[Ronin]

But yes therapy relationship is professional intimate relationship...as close as spouse without the physical or sexual.

I find this notion reeally problematic, for a variety of reasons.

Just because one works with a therapist on vulnerable and intimate topics, does not make the relationship itself intimate.

& as close as a chosen partner??? Not in any universe.
They are a pro that I pay, or someone else pays on behalf of me, for me, to do their work.

Not intimate with my dentist, either. Or any other doctor.
Even where from trauma view / trauma work necessary to even see them, they would sure rate being hot firsts on that Dealing with intimacy, list.

 

[grit]

I think the problem is the word intimacy. You are not intimate with your dentist thank god cause he/she is dealing with your teeth not your most inner thoughts.
Intimacy (in the context of therapy) is defined in various ways so I will just provide a link rather than trying to add more confusion.
What is Intimacy?
When humans have issues with intimacy, they do not go to dentist or a lawyer or a hair dresser, they usually go to a therapy. I think the word intimacy is triggering for a lot of people cause after all we are on PTSD website. But people do not heal from trauma without working on intimacy level. Who will help them, is up to each one of us.
I want to add for humor, a gynecologist is not having sex with a woman when he is providing a pap smear, maybe not clear but the act of of conducting pap smear can be something else in different context. Let us keep things in context not just all over....

 

[Chris-duck]

a gynecologist is not having sex with a woman when he is providing a pap smear

I get this is for humour. But I think it's accurate, a therapist isn't *being* intimate when they work on intimacy either..

 

[grit]

yes the therapist is not fully intimate toward the client...this is a asymmetrical relationship (it is boundaried in some ways) but we have to be intimate in order to get teh full benefit of healing. The doctor who is providing the pap smear or the general check is not also providing his body to be touched but fully can touch the woman in this context.
I am trying really hard to convey the context of the conversation matters. But I am feeling I may have triggered some people and the conversation is no longer beneficial or safe for anyone.

I do appreciate the warmth challenges though.

 

[Chris-duck]

I'm not triggered. I just genuinely don't understand the difference