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Do Some Perpetrators Get Ptsd From Their Crimes?

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Maybe you could explain to me what you believe I was saying that does not fit or what disagree with?
 
SEEING these things does in fact involve an aspect of helplessness and victimization.

I think the key in all of this is SAFETY. Think about it. An axe murderer isn't going to develop PTSD due to his crimes because HIS safety was never at risk. He was the perpetrator.

Everyone and I do mean EVERYONE with PTSD has an aspect of feeling UNSAFE. Want to argue that? Go ahead, as "safety" is the first step in healing PTSD (according to quite a few schools of thought).

No feelings if being unsafe? I dare to say no PTSD!
 
Thats a good point Vugo and I am not sure about the perpetrator and committing a crime issue still.

Although it is less common what about those who are diagnosed PTSD from hearing that a family member was murdered or killed in a seriously car accident?

I do think those would bring up helplessness but not personal fear. More like horror about what happened.

I am still interested in the original legal case that made me start this thread. If it isn't possible and is known not to be in the medical and mental health world then it seems to me this man's diagnoses will be a powerful argument in his court case. He has PTSD therefore he could not have done the crime.

I am still curious about the whole thing. It sounds so unlikely that he is innocent (because of my personal experience) and yet he has PTSD.
 
Who said a perpetrator doesn't feel unsafe? That is an assumption. Someone could rob a local store because they're little brother or sister is starving... they feel very insecure, unsafe at night in a house within a high crime area, and so the list goes on and on. The robbery turns to crap, they shoot and kill a person which was not their intent, but happened as a result of other factors. They are the bad guy... they can, and do, get PTSD as a result of committing a crime. They can also have an underlying history of trauma... complex trauma due to living in a low income area. The robbery and shooting may simply be the icing on the cake for them that pushes them over the edge.

PTSD is not restricted to victims only, it is a trauma based neurological illness of unknown specificity at this given time. Plenty of people become abusers due to being victims first, and even vice versa. PTSD is about trauma, not whether you're a victim or offender.
 
Ewohar,
Now you are adding in UNDERLYING PTSD. That wasn't the question and thus committing the crime wouldn't be the CAUSE of the PTSD!

The question is "do people get PTSD FROM their crimes" not "do people with PTSD commit crimes". That is, does the act of commuting the crime itself CAUSE PTSD?

This whole topic pisses me off. I'm getting visions of child rapists crying "boo hoo feel sorry for me because I have PTSD from raping children!" Oh please.
 
Still doesn't change... you can get PTSD from committing a crime, as PTSD is an illness based on trauma. It is not specific to being a victim. The underlying factors were only mentioned as lifestyle attributes, not that they gave the person PTSD. You can get PTSD from x, yet a, b, e, l, m, p and q that happened earlier in your life that you thought nothing much of at the time, are now haunting you and causing you major distress. You read it here time and again... PTSD brings your entire history into play more often than not, especially with the more severe sufferers.

PTSD is not limited to being a victim... that is factual. The problem with the world today is that there are people who don't believe offenders can change... thus statements such as "they cry boo hoo" or such don't help the problem. People offend for all sorts of reasons. Some are just bad people, some are good people in bad situations, yet the crimes can be the same... but the intent and motivation vastly different.

There are plenty of studies around the world that show good statistics in offenders being fully reintegrated to society as complying citizens when rehabilitated correctly, instead of thrown in to learn how to become a full-time criminal or worse offender. There are those who should never be let within society, and those who just screwed up.
 
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you can get PTSD from committing a crime, as PTSD is an illness based on trauma.
... of which helplessness is a part. If you're the perpetrator, you're not helpless. You have a choice. PTSD is very much linked to helplessness/lack of options.

I think you're confusing history of trauma with perpetration.
 
People offend for all sorts of reasons. Some are just bad people, some are good people in bad situations, yet the crimes can be the same... but the intent and motivation vastly different. ...

Sure. I know, I've worked with offenders. Doesn't mean they get PTSD from their offence.
 
Who said a perpetrator doesn't feel unsafe?
It seems to me that the criteria say that it is possible to get PTSD without feeling unsafe personally. For example hearing about a family member being killed through unnatural causes.

However, I don't think the type of unsafe that a perpetrator would experience would potentially cause PTSD. Worrying that one is going to be caught and being in danger in that respect seems different from the type of fear involved with seeing a murder or being assaulted or raped.

If it is possible and does happen then I imagine it would be a perpetrator that doesn't have psychopathic tendencies and who is rather acting unthinkingly and possibly in rage or on drugs etc. Who thereafter finds themselves faced with a dead body and the repercussions for example. I would imagine it would come from horror and guilt/shame. Not feelings of helplessness or fear.

I imagine it would be the horror of the reality of death or harm that would do it if it is possible and does happen.
 
People fixate on criterion attributes to suit their cause, but nowhere does it say that the person must be helpless for PTSD. Helplessness is one (1) only possible aspect of PTSD, it is not a requirement, just as having guilt isn't, or shame, and so forth. There are many facets to obtaining PTSD... and it hasn't change the fact, that a perpetrator of an offence can get PTSD just as can a victim.
 
I agree that helplessness is only one of the possible emotions involved and in fact so are shame, guilt etc. It seems to me sensible that they have removed that from the criteria. It's all too subjective and difficult to define. Every so often I look for something factual about this subject (perpetrating a crime causing PTSD) and can't find anything. It just seems to me it would be possible.

I will report back when this trial comes to fruition which will probably take an age with him crying PTSD.
 
They do get PTSD, sometimes. But I think the discussion in here is really mixing and confusing things a bit. Since even if a perpetrator get PTSD after committing a crime, that doesn't mean he can "blame" the PTSD for his/hers crime/action. (The action came before the PTSD for gods sake!) Besides can a person who suffers from PTSD blame her illness for her actions should she commit a crime?? In my country they wouldn't get away with it. Only a psychosis could be an "excuse", but not for real because in that case the person is sentenced to psychiatric care for a unknown time: until they consider him/her of no danger to society.

There is no "boo-hoo-factor" here.. Only facts. And the question was if they do get PTSD from committing a crime, and sometimes they do. PTSD does not equals "victim".

But the diagnose criteria differs a bit if you compare ICD-10(which is uses where I live) and DSM-IV. In ICD-10 there is no room for subjective things like "helplessness". Link Removed

Or this:
Furthermore, those at risk of PTSD include not only those who are directly affected by a
horrific event, but also witnesses, perpetrators and those who help PTSD sufferers (vicarious
traumatisation). People at risk of PTSD include:
victims of violent crime (e.g. physical and sexual assaults, sexual abuse, bombings, riots)
members of the armed forces, police, journalists and prison service, fire service, ambulance
and emergency personnel, including those no longer in service
From this document:
PTSDMAMA128191

If only the person who is in moral sense(a subjective matter though; since different people can have different morals/opinions) "the victim" could be diagnosed with PTSD a police who killed another person accidentally couldn't be diagnosed right? But that's really sidetracking things, because nevertheless the diagnose criteria allows even those inflicting the violence them selves to get the diagnose should they fit the other criterion's as well. Flashbacks are pretty common among some abusers, and they can also suffer from nightmares, intrusive thoughts, anxiety, overwhelming feelings of guilt(if they're capable of feeling that: not all abusers are, and not all abusers suffers from PTSD neither before nor after their crimes) etc.

This is going off topic now(but commenting on some of the sidetracks I've seen in this thread):

Per Isdal, a Norwegian psychotherapist who have been working a lot with abusers and have written books about violence(he have received awards for his work), has stated that violence is not a "blind act": not "stupid" in that sense that it has no meaning. It has meaning, in the eyes of the perpetrator. There is a lot of rubbish and myths about violence that serves to keep the violence "excused". Perpetrators are often acting out of the "meaning of violence". That means that violence serves a purpose, but it's not always a conscious purpose: it's often hidden for the perpetrator himself/herself. And usually they use the same nonsense that the society also states about violence to excuse their actions: "I couldn't control my self! I just lost my temper! It was a blind act!" etc. But for real they did chose to act the way they did, but not as a conscious choice: rather they're ruled by their own feelings: often by feelings of(hear now!) helplessness. They often feel helpless, and like victims, and as if they have no choice.

Per Isdal says that violence is often a reaction to a strong feeling of powerlessness. Of course it's a subjective feeling, not the actual fact. The man who beats up or murders his woman is not her victim. But during the actual deed he often perceives him self to be the victim, and he is of his own impulses and feelings. (I'm talking about the persons who are not sociopaths and such; they work in a different way.) "She was about to leave me! She was lying and cheating on me, and everyone else was laughing at me!" Etc. (Sometimes those things are only real in his own sick mind; not in the reality.) If a perpetrator can get help to understand his own actions, and stop blaming the victim, they can learn to see that they're sick and really have a choice to change(it often requires a lot of professional help) or continue being abusers.
 
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