News Do We Live In A "rape Culture"?

[Muzikluvr]

Teach men not to rape. For every woman who's been asked, "What do you think you could have done to prevent it?" For every woman who's given or received a list of behaviors to adhere to in an effort to avoid being raped in college.

We cannot prevent that which we do not control. 2/3's of every rape are committed by someone we know. How much more paranoid do you want women to be? How much harder should it be for women to learn to trust men? Women feel ashamed when they fail to prevent their own rape.

What about their fathers? Fathers are supposed to protect their daughters. They are devastated when they "fail". They feel ashamed. Put the shame back where it belongs, on the rapist! Do this by changing the conversation! Why did that man decide to rape? What's wrong with him? How can we avoid this in the future? What was he taught as a child? I don't understand why it's taken us so long to flip this conversation on end, since it is only logical that those who choose the time, location, victim, and the action, are the ones who are responsible for the rape.

 

[Emily18]

Put the shame back where it belongs, on the rapist!

Thank you for this post and those words especially.

The video was definitely very interesting and brought up topics that really should have more exposure in society. It was kind of shocking to me to hear other people "defend" the fact that we can't teach people not to rape. I'm all for self-defense but prevention is always better than protection.

 

[Muzikluvr]

shocking to me to hear other people "defend" the fact that we can't teach people not to rape

I know!! Not only that, but the other two adult commentators seem so convinced of that fact, that they completely dismiss it as a possibility. They talk over Ms. Maxwell, and seem to dismiss her argument as if it's not helpful to the cause! Shocking. Really.

I have more videos and comments that I want to post here regarding the messages our culture puts out about rape. Please feel free to contribute what you have experienced, and what you witness in the media or in your family and community. I think this is an important way of analyzing how we choose to bury rape, and continue to feel helpless to prevent it, or prosecute it.

 

[Emily18]

Sorry for multiple replies but the topic is important to me.

In my own family, I've experience "victim blaming" and statements like "what if you had done this...." or "I don't understand how you let that happen". I've also experienced it with people who were my friends. Not only is this upsetting, it has made me believe that I am to blame. This only has served to slow down my healing process. I shouldn't have to hurt someone else in order to protect myself.

I would like to see any more video/comments you have on the subject.

 

[Definitely..maybe]

One thing just to add is that it makes me sad that my parents are teaching my little sister how to stay safe, what about telling my brothers not to rape?

I know that's implied and basically said, just seeing it like that makes me sad.

 

[Muzikluvr]

Shit women said... (This was going to be just what my mom said... but, quickly turned into what I heard from all women)

From my Mom...

"You have to tell on them.. (then she looked up, thinking and said)... or threaten to tell on them... to get them to stop. (Then, she looked up again, thinking and said) I guess you'd say that you did..." She still cowardly shoved me out on the porch where my dad was poised to spank me for lying about rape, and I had to convince him in front of 4 liars, that I wasn't lying.

One of the last things my mom said before shoving me out that door was that, if I failed to convince my dad to protect me... "The molesters would come out of the woodwork..." and she looked at the baseboards and around at the walls like they were closing in on us as she spoke.

My mom was from an abused family too... this shit doesn't go away because the victims blame themselves and try to learn ways to deal with it... as if, they learned how to protect themselves and they'll just teach that to their kids too. But, they didn't learn it unless they reported it to the police, and never stopped standing up for their rights to refuse sexual relations, and rejected the abuser and everyone who supports him.)

My mom truly believed that girls could stop rapists by threatening to tell on them that, when she was in high school and her younger sister asked her how she made her dad stop molesting her, my mom laughed at her and said "Just tell him you'll tell mom! Didn't you know?" My Aunt has hated her ever since.

"If you don't like it, then why does it keep happening?"

(with giggle) "I just can't believe you let them do it again." Then, to my look of horror, she said, "Oh come on, it's not that big of a deal. It's human nature. You can't stop it. You're not really hurt. Your body is made for sex."

When I confronted her recently, about a rape that happened when I was around 14 yrs old. I brought up the incident, she remembered it, I told her I was raped that night, we discussed it for few minutes and then she said, "I didn't know you... went to bed with him." She could barely get the words out, I could tell she was full of her own shame (not projecting it onto me, but I felt shame too at her words). Women learn to be submissive, women internalize the lessons of their youth, just as men do. That's how we stop rape. Our sons need to understand that not only CAN they control their urges, but they MUST control them; and that women are not here for their orgasms, we are people with the same rights that they have to choose when and with whom we want to have sex. They can't just force us, we are not apes or cavemen.


From the rapist's mom when I told them that he wouldn't let me play with the boys unless I was naked...
"Boys will be boys." and then, to my mother, "Your son was there too."

From the women who listened to me give details of the rape as my proof, my defense that it was real...
"How can you stand there and say these things?" "Aren't you ashamed?" "I would be on the floor in a puddle of shame if I were you!"

From the rapists grandpa...
"How can he help himself? Look how you walk around in those skimpy shorts! And, you're always takin' off your clothes for him! He can't control himself! He doesn't have the maturity for that yet!"

From society... until my then boyfriend and now husband cleared it up... I heard...
"It hurts to have an erection! Don't let them get an erection, because they have to orgasm or it will hurt."

(I especially like how the responsibility for a man's erection was on my shoulders. It explains why I hated expressing my sexuality and why I was aghast when other girls freely expressed theirs. Didn't they know that if the boy gets aroused, they won't be allowed to say "No." ?)

 

[Pietro]

Sean Hannity... :hilarious: He used to be a local radio talk-show host in my town, in the 90's -- look at him now, spreading ignorance nationwide. ;) His talk show is almost solely "piolitical entertainment" -- he appeases a certain political demographic in order to get ratings; he doesn't do real, objective news, commentary, or interviewing.

Regardless, it's sad what I'm reading here, that girls/women are held responsible for men's bad behavior. I was passingly aware of this, but not to the extent that's being discussed here. In particular, this little nugget:

"If you don't like it, then why does it keep happening?" (with giggle) "I just can't believe you let them do it again." Then, to my look of horror, she said, "Oh come on, it's not that big of a deal. It's human nature. You can't stop it. You're not really hurt. Your body is made for sex."

:wideeyed: So much for support and validation.

Regarding the concept of "teaching men not to rape", I've never considered this more than abstractly. "Good" families teach their young men how to behave appropriately towards all people, and this also includes how to behave appropriately with the women in their life. I think many families, though, skip over anything having to do with sex, given American culture's continued dysfunction regarding this subject. Thus, young men learn about sex from their friends, or from "the street". Not the best environment for quality learning.

The fact is, though, that rapists are largely those who've been abused themselves. There are certainly some who have mental illnesses caused either by genetic or physical damage, but these, I believe, are the minority. Until we stop the epidemic cycle of child abuse that plagues our society, violence such as this will continue.

 

[Tympre]

Mine was my second husband. And as I told the nurse, I was informed he was my husband and therefore it was not rape. This was repeated in different words from everyone I told. The spousal privileged went on for 4 months before he decided I was inadequate. I am raising all my kids, boys and girls that no means no, and that being a spouse does not mean ownership. No one is property. He was never punished, the case never made it past the initial police reports as we were married. I wish I could say this was 20+ years ago but it was not, it was only six.

 

[Pietro]

@Tympre, very sorry to hear this. :( Not sure where you are from, but, in the US, laws regarding such crimes are made at the local level, and, therefore, different all over the country. And, as demonstrated by your situation, some places are still very backward -- by decades, at least. I wonder what the authorities would have said if you had decided to empty-out your joint bank account? By their logic, shared assets are also a marriage privilege.

I hope things have greatly improved for you since this time.

 

[Tympre]

@Pietro I am in the US, and yes the laws are different all over the country and in some areas this would never have happened, I am just fortunate enough to live in one where it did. As for emptying the joint bank accounts, well that would have landed me in jail. During the divorce he was almost awarded compensation for having to move out from the home I owned before he ever entered my life. Luckily though the marriage was so short his lawyer reconsidered arguing spousal support and relocation assistance. I did try pointing out he left. Things have improved, but not in the local laws, but more in the social response to others going through there own versions of this. Social media is very powerful in election years.

 

[Muzikluvr]

((((Tympre)))) I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your body is your own. Consenting to sex once, doesn't mean you will consent the next time. Marriage is not a contract to relinquish the rights over your body to your spouse.

When I was in college, and was deep in denial about my place in the abuse cycle... and my family's involvement... I joined a rape support group run by a local women's shelter.

A woman was in my group whose husband had been in the hospital with me the week before. They were drugging him and tying him to his bed. I only saw a glimpse of him one night as they struggled to wrestle him back to his room. He was violent.

She wanted to know everything I could tell her about him. When I found out that "the only person" who had raped her had been her husband, I asked "Does that even count?"

At that time, I had no real memory of what it felt like to be raped. My memories were only those where I felt like this kid was beating me up and no one knew because they couldn't see the marks. There was no shame to them. I didn't feel it. My body was numb in the memories. I strongly believed that I had FINALLY figured out what was wrong with ME. And, I was relieved to find out that I could blame a rapist for my childhood anger, which was the cause of the wall between me and my family.

Relieved, to finally figure out what was wrong with ME. Wow. I had no compassion for this woman. I had no connection with her. I was entrenched in the abuse cycle. So wrapped up in that perspective, that I drew a blank when the counselor running the group tried to make me understand the woman's feelings. I was also very cut off from my own emotions.

She, of course, took what I said and my attitude about my own experiences to heart. Nothing the counselor or other members of the group said put her mind at ease... and worst of all... none of us could really refute my logic. I don't remember what all I spouted off, but I do remember closing my eyes and repeating the various comments I'd heard about rape... and none included the rights of a married woman. They were various ways to avoid being raped.

I wish I knew what happened to her. I never went back to that group. I'm not sure anyone did, we all felt like it wasn't helping us, after that conversation.

The truth is, no one EVER has the right to force themselves on another, no matter how much that other person likes them, or if that person has consented in the past. One of my rapists, told me while raping me, that he and his ugly friend were going around asking the girls at the high school if they think he's cute. He was cute. When they flirted with him, in public, that was enough consent. He date raped them, then offered them to his friend, and he told them that no one would ever believe her about him raping her... when it was so clear that she would have consented willingly. I'm not sure how he included his friend in this, but they were a tag team.

My rapist's Aunt looked down her nose at me when I was 9 yrs old, and I had just told her that he raped me... she said, "Of course he did!" and someone else in the room said, "That's all we've heard about all the way here. Just what he wants to do with you when he sees you again." another person in the room said, "It's wrong when 2 kids are having more sex than any of the adults. How many of you have had sex since we got here?" Everyone laughed and agreed. I was dumbfounded. By this time, I could barely remember the details of trauma. My mind blocked a lot of it out as soon as it happened. That made it really difficult to report it, but then... reporting it had always been more traumatic than the rape itself.

I turned to the rapist's Aunt and I asked her "So, if your daughter agreed to have sex with her boyfriend, and then she broke up with him later, and he wanted to have sex with her again... she'd have to do it?" and she just looked confused, hoping someone else would join in to answer that "tough" question. Then she said, "Not MY daughter. Just YOU."

When people can think that way, there is little they won't excuse where it comes to rape.

Rape continues because it's not just the rapist and victim who are confused about responsibility, it's the men and women around the rapist and victim. The men and women who are the first to hear about the rape. Not necessarily the police, but they live in that community too, and if they had a more progressive stance on it, then that could spread to the rapist's families. But, they often don't. They often can't defend the victim any better than anyone else... because they still buy into this idea that men can't control themselves when they're in the throws of passion.

Silence is strangling our society. It leaves us at the mercy of all the rapists and their enablers.

 

[Muzikluvr]

She defines Feminist as ANYONE, male or female who believes in equality between the sexes.

Men are forced to hide their emotions. There are many unhealthy ways in which a man must assert his masculinity. Men are often expected to pay for everything. There are many reasons that men should be interested in gender equality.

What's interesting to me is how many examples she gives of women being dismissed in her culture. I admit, a couple of her examples aren't happening in my circles in America anymore. But, when I was a child, the rapist told me that all women were good for was to look at and to cook and clean... and best of all when men could watch the women cook and clean naked. My mother was "a feminist". If you've read my prior posts, you might not agree... but, she was the most progressive of all the women I knew. She held a full time job, and she made more money than my dad. She was not supposed to tell anyone about that, though.

The fact that anyone can be ignored, dismissed, made invisible by a group in their social circle, puts that person at risk for rape and other assaults. Who will protect someone they didn't even notice was there? SO many times, when I told on the rapist for bullying me, people said "I didn't see anything." They were apologetic, like they meant to be alert... they didn't think I was lying because they knew he was such a mean bully... but, they didn't notice me anymore. I was dismissed by my own father, and he asked them to excuse me for anything I said that was upsetting.

I couldn't find the part where she mentions rape in this video, but I think she does... you see, she discusses the culture as a whole. The experience from a woman's perspective, and I assert that what we learn, as girls, about our role in society, contributes to our role as victims.

BTW, I want to say that I was very strong-willed and assertive. I stood my ground. But, I was a child, confused, rejected, cut off from all human connection, and despite how I fought the change to my beliefs about my place in this world... the rapist and his family broke me through a series of abhorrent actions and arguments. The rapist said, incredulously, "She doesn't learn, does she?" and, "She needs to know her place." and "Oooohhh, that's pride there. Look how proud she is." It was the women in his family who shamed me, who taught me my place. A rapist couldn't teach me that! I knew it was unconscionable what he'd done to me! His mother and her family had to break it to me that I am nothing in our society... and this was America in the 1970's. My mother had to concede that she fights sexism at work every day. They gave the rapist's words, meaning.

Women have to wake up. So, be a feminist and if you're a man, try to recruit some women to see it from a feminist perspective. You might be surprised how difficult it is to get women to support their own rights.