Do You Grieve Differently With Ptsd Then Before It?

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Amne , I love yours too! First time I saw it I thought "THERE'S my missing (ptsd) puzzle piece!" :) :hug:

@Abstract , the domino-effect certainly makes sense to me.

That is very interesting that you should mention,. some criteria applying for your friend and not others, I find the same. Not to mention why I get 'visuals' as you called them, when it was years after the ptsd seemed to show up and not related to that death. I am interested in reading the articles, but I find it very difficult to untangle which part comes from childhood, which from ptsd, which from grief (complicated or otherwise). Then again, perhaps that doesn't matter as it seems necessary to have a different (unique) combination of modalities to heal for each of us. In fact, maybe that's exactly why.

Hugs and thanks @Britt.f7 (hey I like the tree :) ) and Abstract. :hug:

 

[roaminggnome]

Thank you all for replying. I didn't expect such a response. I will write back more after I've fully digested what you all have thoughtfully written. My head is spinning a little right now-I'm not having the best of days.

 

[Abstract]

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time RG. I hope you feel better soon.

very difficult to untangle

Hugs back Junebug. It can be very hard. I think separating what is what as best as possible can be helpful when it comes to looking at how to heal it even though it isn't always possible. It seems there is some crossover between complicated grief and PTSD and some differences.

All the yearning and not being able to accept the death or move on, feeling life is changed forever without them, loss, strong feelings about death that are linked to loss, would not be PTSD and would be linked to grief. If the intrusions are linked to that event and the experience fits the PTSD criterion plus the other PTSD symptoms then I think it points to PTSD. If there are not the full PTSD symptoms but intrusions of the event and/or it doesn't fit PTSD criterion then it would be complicated grief. Just talking this through for myself too. The information in an intrusion should point to what has not been processed normally in traumatic terms. Whether that is in terms of CG or PTSD would be to do with other stuff.

I can also truly see how pre existing PTSD would make it more likely someone would get complicated grief. From what I understand not everyone with CG would end up with trauma type intrusions of that event either.

It's a bit like general childhood deficits and abuse. They can lead to things that sometimes coexist with PTSD; some things are part of PTSD, and yet often they exist even when PTSD is not something that develops and still have terrible impacts on peoples lives. Like low self esteem, self harm, suicidal ideation, inability to cope well with intense emotions (emotion moderation issues), personality issues, problems with anger (either too much or too little), problems forming healthy relationships, assertiveness problems, control issues etc... Living with all of these and then experiencing a loss or a trauma and we are not going to cope terribly well. I always think just emotion moderation must have a huge impact. I know I was never taught how to moderate emotions well.

It seems my friend is having trauma type intrusions with linked avoidance of the actual death whilst having a very mild and normal grief reaction. Who on earth is best to help her. :confused: It feels over the top for her to go to a trauma therapist and yet I can't see a normal grief therapist being suitable. She needs exposure therapy it seems.

That struck me from Britts articles. It seems very important that someone understand complicated grief if they are going to help someone with it. I hope you don't mind my analytical ramblings roamingnome.

Sorry to see everyone in so much pain. I am grateful this isn't an area I have struggled with. Slightly ashamed to say it but the main reaction I had when my father died was relief and fear The fear because not having his influence around felt freeing and strange in its freedom.

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't think you should feel ashamed to say that @Abstract , one can love a person and hate the behaviour, or know the behaviour done to them is wrong. :hug: ((((((Dear Abstract))))))

That helps with 'untangling'. I don't have the stated symptoms of complicated grief, except strong feelings about death perhaps, but I think that's from learning/ life experience. But I think ptsd has a lot of grief intertwined with it at the best of times. As roaminggnome and others stated those (their) losses would be potentially life-changiing for anyone, especially dependent on the relationship.

I would think with your friend even more important at this stage than exposure therapy would be revealing honestly what she has to you, talking about it etc.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks Junebug. :)

Glad you have a sense of what is what for you.

Actually, for my friend discussing her experiences is no big deal. She is normally one of those rock solid confident people without any issues or concerns about revealing things or anything else.

 

[roaminggnome]

@Abstract I don't know where the grief ends and the PTSD begins. All I know is that my PTSD symptoms have been worse since my mother was in the ICU dying for fifteen days before she passed away. I think the experience of watching her slowly dying triggered all aspects of my PTSD. That coupled with my grief after the fact worsened my PTSD. My grief is overwhelming at times which could be my PTSD added in too. I don't think I can separate the two. At least today was a bit less of a struggle. I am trying to take life one day at a time. I was also my Mom's caregiver which is a loss in of itself. Now I find myself trying to fill my days. So I guess my PTSD was triggered before the grief set in.

 

[novemberDark]

Rominggnome, after trauma loosing a loved one was different for me.

My grieving process was 'delayed'.
I don't even know when it kicked in but I'm guessing it was after I broke down 6 weeks later.

That's when I saw a psychologist, she said something very significant to me " you can only hold an air filled ball under water for so long".

I finally clued in why I was asked if I had a pulse during the weeks after.

Meanwhile, I was thinking, I have to be strong, can't break, otherwise everybody breaks.

I couldn't cry, rationalized everything ( including how they keep a coffin cool at wake), somehow started to compartmentalize everything.

On top of that, I found it annoying to see everyone sitting there, so focused on a coffin at the service, sort of a 'its to late now, its over, what's the point of this, lets get on with it, there's just a body left in there, it's done, he is dead'.

I feel so bad about that, that I was able to be that way, and I am still ashamed of that today.

Regarding your friend, when you say 'mild grieving' what do you mean by that?.

 

[novemberDark]

I didn' know there was complicated grieving.
I didn't know there was such a thing as a delayed grieving process either, but it makes the stages soooo much stronger and at once.
Especially the anger stage, it's dangerous.

All my sensor's were so hyped, I jumped at every little noise, I was hotwired. I was looking for any target that set me off (including other people making noise). I rather not elaborate on that to much.

Anxiety became soooooo strong I'd choke 2xa nite. All the stages seem to be out of sequence and some simultaneously, shifting back an forth in minutes.

I never accepted the loss, I don't think I ever will.

I'm not diagnosed with ptsd, I've had to educate myself on it for someone dear to me.

Sure everyone grieves individually through the normal process even.

Knowing about the ptsd sufferings, if they were going through a delayed grieving process oh boy !.

 

[roaminggnome]

@novemberDark I bottled up my tears for six months after my Mom died. I was in a severe depression until recently. Now I'm able to cry and express my emotions. Prior to that I was so far down I was numb. I have so much going on with me that it is hard to distinguish my symptoms among all of my mental health issues. I do know that since May my PTSD has been in overdrive.

Please don't feel ashamed about your thoughts regarding your loss. I thought those same things 18 years ago at my sister's funeral. It was a suicide and those thoughts got me through a very tragic time. For me those same thoughts got me through and were normal for me.

 

[Abstract]

@roaminggnome, I can hear the pain in your words. I think it is no surprise that something like that would trigger all of your PTSD. I hope you find some peace soon.

I read that we have an internal map of our lives and selves in our minds and when the "landscape" changes suddenly and significantly it causes great internal pressure and confusion. I can very much see why having such an essential part of your daily responsibilities gone would create a gaping hole and much stress on top of the loss and triggeredness. I also know how hard it is to separate things when we are in it. Easy to theorise but when it comes to the experiencing it is chaotic and messy. Take care.

 

[Forgetful]

I know the original post was made several weeks ago but I am new to this and just read it. It got me thinking.

I hadn't loss anyone prior to PTSD and so have nothing to compare it with.

Since my symptoms started but before my diagnosis I have lost several. All 4 grandparents, sister in law and mother in law.

After each one I felt sad but nowhere as bad as others around me. This sadness lasted maybe 2 or 3 days and then nothing. Its like my brain just forgot them as if they never existed.

I feel ashamed and a little guilty for my lack of grief. I don't understand it and am confused by lack of feelings even after my grandmas death whom I was very close to.

Can anyone explain this reaction? Does it mean I never really loved them?

 

[Britt.f7]

Snafu, it is just how you process death. Everyone does it differently. My youngest son seemed to be fine after his grandmother's death. It is not that he didn't love her. He just processed it differently. Nothing necessarily wrong with that. Perhaps, at that time of your life, that is simply how you had to in order to function properly.

I think, with PTSD, emotions can be such a problem. Either too much or seemingly too little. Please do not let this determine whether you loved these people or not. When my mom first died I just went through motions. It didn't hit me until way later that she died, and then it was all consuming. It doesn't always happen this way. Everyone grieves differently.