Does anyone find that the mindfulness techniques worsens their PTSD symptoms?

[Friday]

Most of this mindfulness theory is a Westernized version of Vipassana, a practice found within Theravada Buddhism. It emphasizes three things that I think are difficult for PTSDers: breathing, eyes closed meditation and the body scan. All of this can lead you into a dysphoric trance rather than awareness. I also found it unbearable and triggering when I first began to meditate.

On the other hand, Zen buddhism comes from the Mahayana tradition

I spent most of my childhood in SE Asia -and most of that in Japan- and meditation was taught in school by the monks. But? About 10% of the class were set to 2 different tasks / disallowed from standard meditation. Those of us who became explosive balls of misery? Were sent to do karate/aikido. Meanwhile another group was sent to play music.

As a kid I was just relieved to ESCAPE! :woot:

As an adult looking back?

- I think it’s quirky how in the place where it’s normal it’s recognized that not everyone is suited for it, and alternatives are found that are far more suitable for the individual (achieving the same grounded/centered results the teachers wanted us to have at the end of it) ...but here in the West if it doesn’t suit you, you’re seen as the problem who needs to work harder. As if the meditation itself is the desired result, rather than the means to an end.

- I wonder if the music kids were spectrum kids? We all had music lessons, the same way we all had martial arts lessons, but that certain groups of us found martial arts grounding/centering and another group found playing music grounding/centering, meanwhile the majority found meditation grounding/centering? Just makes me curious about the neuropsych involved. My assumptions may be totally off, esp as things are thought of ...differently... in each place, so attempting to overlay western ideas (psych) onto eastern practice can get iffy. But 4-6% of kids are ADHD, ditto Spectrum? Evens out really in line with which kids were sent where & why. IDK. It just makes me curious.

 

[RVA21]

It doesn't work for me. It's bizarre how they all think one thing will help every single person. Everyone's different and has to find what helps them as an individual and shouldn't be judged on it.

 

[blackemerald1]

they all think one thing will help every single person

^"They"don't all think this.

Or, you are talking to the wrong people.

It's a tool... like all the rest of the non-medical tools that are out there.

Some work for some people some of the time. Some don't.

 

[RVA21]

Yes, it just sounded like op has everyone telling her to do mindfulness.

 

[Mee]

Pre PTSD I practiced mindfulness and meditated regularly. I practice yoga, mainly hatha yoga ( I loved what @Cypress said). With PTSD focused relaxed mindfulness and meditation that is not guided, is not conducive to actually being mindful or meditative.

I can still practice mindfulness in very small doses, eyes open and generally on the move or being mindful of how I am completing routine tasks, walking, becoming body aware in motion , is more successful for me. Static, ponderous mindfulness is inviting open space for flashbacks .

 

[flowerapple]

Yoga taught me how to breathe properly.
Mindfulness taught me how to notice whether I was breathing.

End result? I can now breathe my way out of a panic attack in pretty much any situation.

^Absolutely. That is me too. That first big slow breath that I take has become the key for me to reset myself and divert away from panic. It is such a relief to have this tool. Reminding myself to use it escapes me at times though.

I find that even the simple exercises like focusing on my breathing and slowing it down, even that can set me off. I can't figure out the connection so I don't know why but when I focus on my breathing, it makes me feel more connected to my body, and I start to feel nauseous because then I start to feel them touching me. I don't know if that makes sense because I don't really know how to explain it, it's more of a feeling.

It’s a really bad idea with my other disorder (ADHD)

I also have ADHD too, so I wonder if that's the reason for it not working, or at least part of the reason.

Because it either opens the floodgates of too much info (Meltdown! Meltdown!) or kicks up hyperfocus and the rest of the world falls away for no good reason (disassociation in ADHD is -usually- a good thing -a break from overactive senses- but having it kick on win nothing of real value being focused on? Is a recipe for disaster.

For me, I find the ADHD can be helpful when I'm in public because the constant distractions are able to kinda downplay the PTSD making it easier for me to hide it from people. The problem is when I'm alone or in a small group then it's harder to hide because there aren't that many distractions. And when I try to mindfulness, it's like even those few distractions that I'm in a way depending on for my sanity, has to be put aside, which leaves the PTSD which is difficult, if not impossible, to turn off. When I try to become aware of the present, I still can't turn off the PTSD, and then when I become aware of my breathing and my body, it just messes everything up, and the present just disappears, which is also why I can't do yoga.

The flip side of hypofocus (distraction caused by too much information streaming in) is hyperfocus (a kind of disassociation blurs out everything else except what you’re focused on. Including things like needing to pee, time of day, sounds up to and including fire alarms, etc.).

Ha, this is so true. It's actually become a bit of a problem, although I am working on it, but when I'm hyperfocused, it's like I lose track of time, forget to pee, even forget to eat. This isn't related to the topic, just thought it was funny you mentioned that.

 

[blackemerald1]

I find that even the simple exercises like focusing on my breathing and slowing it down, even that can set me off. I can't figure out the connection so I don't know why but when I focus on my breathing, it makes me feel more connected to my body, and I start to feel nauseous because then I start to feel them touching me. I don't know if that makes sense because I don't really know how to explain it, it's more of a feeling.

^Honestly I'm not sure either. :hug:

But I did pick up on you saying that you try to slow your breathing down. I'm not sure that I do that - slow my breathing. I have this need for oxygen so trying to slow my respirations down would starve me of oxygen. Rather I try and regulate my breathing but it's more a focus on making sure that I do breathe properly and evenly from the solar plexus, deeply and making sure that I connect with that. Squaring out my shoulders, rolling them back.. things like that.

I'm certainly no mindfulness guru. Actually, reminding myself to be mindful happens most often when I've forgotten all of my healthy behaviours and I'm a mess. Then I'm starting way behind the eight ball. It's often a last resort before I just chuck it all in.

Maybe because you do have ADHD and PTSD there is that added complication that @Friday suggested. Maybe mindfulness is just not appropriate for you right now. If that's how you feel, throw it back in the box and try something else. It's not to suggest that you may never return to it. Perhaps it's not for you right now and that's quite ok as far as I know.

 

[Cypress]

I think it’s quirky how in the place where it’s normal it’s recognized that not everyone is suited for it, and alternatives are found that are far more suitable for the individual (achieving the same grounded/centered results the teachers wanted us to have at the end of it) .

This - absolutely!

 

[Teasel]

Zen buddhism comes from the Mahayana tradition. This type of meditation is done with the eyes open where one stares at a fixed point and focuses completely on everything around you that your senses can detect: traffic sounds outside, the pain in your knee, the smell of fish from the apartment next door. There are no requirements to breathe or scan or chant. You just sit.

This is what I do! Never knew it was a particular tradition or anything though thanks.

when I focus on my breathing, it makes me feel more connected to my body, and I start to feel nauseous because then I start to feel them touching me. I don't know if that makes sense

Makes perfect sense. When I started meditation it was impossibly challenging. I would be overcome with body memories. A complete no go basically.

But doing the method Cypress mentions above is good for me. Though even with that, to begin with I would do 1 minute, with an enormous cushion in my lap to protect me too.

If focusing on any particular thing felt bad for me I just don't do that. Sounds for me were the safest to begin with. And soon I started putting on incense or essential oils or just my favourite perfume and i find that ever so soothing indeed.

Have been practising on and off for years now, and have gotten into the habit of spraying my fav scent on the back of my hand, especially if I'm going out to anything that could be anxiety provoking. And just smelling the back of my hand is really soothing now.

Agree with everyone that says go slowly and don't push what makes you feel worse.

Good thread :)

 

[somerandomguy]

Thanks for this thread. I used to meditate but it took a pretty much superhuman effort, and I always used to wonder why I wasn't getting the same benefit out of it that everyone else seemed to.

Then once I started trauma therapy I found that I wasn't able to do it all all. I've been blaming myself for that ever since, thinking that it's something I'm doing wrong. I had no idea this was a struggle for others too.

 

[Mee]

There are other types of meditation. I really enjoy Osho dynamic meditation. With my physical health my body isn’t always up to it, but I feel if it were starting the day with an hour of dynamic medication would be excellent. I like that there is a certain lack of taking oneself seriously about it, you just get into it and make let your body make its shapes and noises in the different phases and this leaves me with exercise induced buzz, and just a general sense of the ridiculous.

 

[flowerapple]

On the other hand, Zen buddhism comes from the Mahayana tradition. This type of meditation is done with the eyes open where one stares at a fixed point and focuses completely on everything around you that your senses can detect: traffic sounds outside, the pain in your knee, the smell of fish from the apartment next door. There are no requirements to breathe or scan or chant. You just sit.

I like this one, especially because I can keep my eyes open. When my eyes are closed I just end up spending my time thinking of what I can’t see until I end up having a panic attack, so this is good. I like the idea of focusing on the environment that I just happen to be in, rather than just me.

It also reminds me of another exercise my T taught me for when I’m having a flashback to keep me present. I’m supposed to find 5 things I can see, 4 things I can hear, 3 things I can touch, 2 things I can smell, and 1 thing I can taste. I find that helpful because it’s not really focusing on me, rather it’s focusing on where I am, so it serves as like a kind of reminder of where I am.