Does anyone find that the mindfulness techniques worsens their PTSD symptoms?

[TruthSeeker]

I am not an expert on Buddhism but I am going to express my annoyance at how certain traditions have been adapted in an effort to address psychological conditions in the West.

Most of this mindfulness theory is a Westernized version of Vipassana, a practice found within Theravada Buddhism. It emphasizes three things that I think are difficult for PTSDers: breathing, eyes closed meditation and the body scan. All of this can lead you into a dysphoric trance rather than awareness. I also found it unbearable and triggering when I first began to meditate.

On the other hand, Zen buddhism comes from the Mahayana tradition. This type of meditation is done with the eyes open where one stares at a fixed point and focuses completely on everything around you that your senses can detect: traffic sounds outside, the pain in your knee, the smell of fish from the apartment next door. There are no requirements to breathe or scan or chant. You just sit.

I think this type of practice is much less triggering for us: your eyes are open so less feeling of vulnerability, no breathing so you don't get anxious and no body scan so no bad memories crashing in.

When I get triggered now, I find a spot on the wall/ground and start spreading my awareness to all of the details around me. It really helps me reset my sense of reality.

But that's just my 2 cents, I think many have found Vipassana mindfulness very helpful. When I was living in India they were teaching it in the prisons to good effect.

I think it is different for different people.....I journey....eyes closed, fixed intent, and my stress level is so much better afterwards.

 

[whiteraven]

It’s a really bad idea with my other disorder (ADHD)

Spoiler: And here’s why

because half of coping with that disorder is accomplished by ignoring as much as possible, at nearly all times. (There’s far too much information flooding in. Daily life is rather like attempting to have a conversation with 3 different people on 3 different devices in 3 different languages, whilst reading a book, whilst dancing at a rock concert on stage set to choreography to keep the dancers from being set on fire by the pyrotechnics, whilst being responsible for 30 screaming kids. Okay WHICH of those things do you actually pay attention to, in what order? All of those things are equally -if differently- important, so how do you accomplish ALL of them, at the same time, without being distracted by any single ONE of them / dropping the ball on the others?). Meanwhile? The flip side of hypofocus (distraction caused by too much information streaming in) is hyperfocus (a kind of disassociation blurs out everything else except what you’re focused on. Including things like needing to pee, time of day, sounds up to and including fire alarms, etc.). So there’s a whole lot of give/take as one has to balance paying attention to only certain things, instead of everything or one thing. (People SAY to only focus on one thing :rolleyes: but they don’t actually mean it. Because they are actually able to pay attention to things like needing to pee, someone knocking on a door, etc.). ADHD brains are quite extremist in their operation... paying attention to everything or nothing.

Mindfulness, as taught to the teeming masses? f*cks ADHD with a sandpaper condom. Because it either opens the floodgates of too much info (Meltdown! Meltdown!) or kicks up hyperfocus and the rest of the world falls away for no good reason (disassociation in ADHD is -usually- a good thing -a break from overactive senses- but having it kick on win nothing of real value being focused on? Is a recipe for disaster.

Now... in the PTSD / ADHD dogfight? PTSD is the big dog. Those symptoms “win”. But both disorders often feed into each other. So what happens if ADHD meets mindfulness when my PTSD is symptomatic? I have yet to lose less than half a day to flashbacks/panic attacks (hyperfocus with nothing to focus on, will choose whatever is shiny, including the PTSD symptom I’m trying to moderate)... and have lost as much as 3 weeks.

It’s seriously bad juju.

Less dysregulation and more decompensating level of “We’re f*cked”.

This is interesting. My T, who has ADHD, is a mindfulness instructor (for lay people, healthcare workers, and everyone in-between), teaching all around the world.

He's always very careful to make sure whoever he is instructing understands that learning the practice MUST be done with guidance because all kinds of stuff can come up.

If a therapist doesn't seem to understand or believe, that therapist doesn't understand mindfulness. For some people, mindfulness as a meditation (as opposed to mindfulness in everyday stuff, although that, done without training, can also be) can be really destabilizing. But discussed and taken bit by bit - maybe only with a therapist under guidance - can really lead to a whole new perspective.

I took the 8 week MBSR course twice under my therapist and it is the BEST thing I have ever done. I don't spend a lot of time "sitting" and being mindful; I incorporate it into the stuff I do everyday. Washing dishes just to wash the dishes, as they say. I've taught my mind to be aware of *right now* when I do daily stuff. So...when I am washing dishes or cleaning or taking a walk, that's all I'm doing. My mind is not wandering off on other stuff. I can't do it all the time, but I recognize that when I'm struggling the most is when I'm not being mindful.

 

[Sideways]

Washing dishes just to wash the dishes, as they say.

One of my top 5 easiest mindfulness activities. One I actually make a point of doing each morning as a dedicated mindfulness practice exercise, because when I’m washing dishes, I can really deliberately focus my attention on that.

10 minutes of washing dishes has become mindfulness practice, and 10 minutes every day that I know I am not actively distressed.:)

 

[MyWillow]

Tried Trauma Sensitive Yoga for 18 months. Denied how triggering it was (no idea why it was) until it culminated in shaking and tears for I don’t know how long. Took another hour of walking and every grounding technique I could think of before I could drive home. There’s a time and a place but I’m just not ready.

 

[TruthSeeker]

One of my top 5 easiest mindfulness activities. One I actually make a point of doing each morning as a dedicated mindfulness practice exercise, because when I’m washing dishes, I can really deliberately focus my attention on that.

10 minutes of washing dishes has become mindfulness practice, and 10 minutes every day that I know I am not actively distressed.:)

That sounds like a really good idea.....I have an intense dislike for doing dishes......so they sit and stack up. I don't know why I shy away from that task....but I'm always relieved when it's done.

 

[DharmaGirl]

I do mindfulness dishes too, @Sideways! I find that mindfulness works for me, but again, that probably comes from being a Vipassana Buddhist. I'm not anymore.

 

[Lslb]

I've just taken up cross stitch :)

Often use language learning apps in the way you describe using cross stitch. Something to focus my mind on and get me out of flashbacks or intense emotions.

Any help you need with Xs let me know xxx

 

[katz]

I've had people tell me to try yoga. But, just the thought of it makes me shake. I tried to do it once and all I got was more aware of my panic feelings inside! Is this what I was supposed to find?

 

[TruthSeeker]

@flowerapple Thank you for bringing up this topic! I have similar issues with Mindfulness. Anything described as a Mindfulness activity has been problematic for me. And I just started DBT group therapy, and I didn't realize how much Mindfulness would be involved.

Guided meditation is the worst for me. My heart starts racing almost immediately.

Around the middle is anything where I'm supposed to focus on my breathing or breathe a certain way. I hate that! It's like, yes, let's challenge me to do something really hard and then act like it's somehow supposed to be calming and not panic-inducing. I think if someone sold an activity to me as, "this is probably going to make you panic," I at least wouldn't have the added judgment on top!

Lastly are things where someone labels a basic activity as Mindfulness. Usually when someone is trying to convince me that it's not terrible. I will mention that I go on hikes or sit outside and look at grass. Then they will say something like "That's Mindfulness!" Except, I don't actually do these things mindfully without thinking of anything else. So I don't think these actually count, but if they do, they are the least distressing forms.

But yeah, Mindfulness stuff feels like it could be good in the way that exposure to triggers could be good. It gives you an opportunity to practice other skills to regulate. However, since no one expects me to panic from mindfulness, and the guided activities all go on way too long for me, I typically am outside my window of tolerance in a few seconds. (Thanks for bringing that up @Cloudymorning) And then I feel like it's basically useless for me. Because I just end up disassociating to deal with the feelings because it's too much too fast. So I don't understand the appeal.

However, with all that said, the longer I've been in therapy, I have noticed that I am now naturally more aware of things that I previously filtered out. I can notice my own emotional states better. And even small things like when I'm drinking my coffee in the morning, I notice that I am more likely to have thoughts like, "I am really enjoying this flavor/experience."

So I feel like someone might be like, "Well that's Mindfulness!" In which case, I don't actually have an issue with it, and I can almost see why that would be considered helpful, but to me that is a sign of my symptoms improving, not a tool to get there.

Which is why "Mindfulness" activities come across to me like someone saying, "Quick! Do this challenging activity while pretending it's not stressful! And it has to be helpful or you're doing it wrong because we just spent the 10 minutes before trying to convince you how great it is." Which is very stressful, yes? It just reminds me how different I am.

You don't have to have your eyes closed to do controlled breathing activities. You can add a component of kinesthetic.-in this case using your arms to guide your breathing....sit in a chair with palms facing up-elbows on your legs or the table top......and breath in slowly......when you breathe in, bend your elbows and move hands upward to the ceiling-keeping elbows in place. When you exhale, palms face down and very slowly let your arms go down, super slow.....much slower then they went up. (Quicker breath in, so very slow out) It is slowing the exhale down that is important, and getting the oxygen to one's brain. This works great for me....and even for anxious little children up to middle schoolers (I've done this with my trauma kiddos and emotionally challenged children. I think adding movement helps a lot! So, if you add the movement piece....it is exercise....not mindfulness....but it accomplishes the same end.....to promote calmness and get oxygen to your brain.

The leap that you can automatically practice mindfulness without having it automatic is a bad one....anything new, that you learn for emotions should be practiced regularly, until you think it is stupidly easy. The trick to be able to do this is to practice the technique several times a day.....when not anxious and aroused, and then when you are comfortable with it....try it when you begin to feel a modest amount of anxiety (not when you are up to your elbows in anxiety).....and it will be successful in getting you in a better place. You must see the benefit, to continue the practice.....If you have a negative attitude towards it, likely it will be checked off the list as a bad thing for you to do....You can just pick a point on the wall to focus on when breathing.......no need to close your eyes. After practicing it when stress is low......and you are successful....evaluate whether you feel better.....calmer.....keep practicing when stress is low.....to keep stress low and to make this an automatic strategy to help keep emotions more balanced. Then when you are losing your shxt, and up to neck in anxiety, you will have breathing down, and be better able to implement it in worse scenarios because you believe that it can be a beneficial tool in a crisis moment. But it is hard to do initially, and impossible if you have no faith in the process, or if you didn't give it a good trial....It is absolutely not necessary to close your eyes for mindful breathing, but it is highly helpful to have something to focus your eyes on if they are open. Just my experience.

You can also stand and do this.....stretch arms high to the ceiling and breath in....arm move up slowly so fingertips face the ceiling....
Slowly very slowly exhale and bend like you are touching your toes (this bend is VERY slow and controlled) the air should be gone when you touch your toes....while not practical in public, it's great at home or in the park....and the body helps with the breathing.

This is a great one to teach anxious little ones.....because they will copy-and you get double benefit by reducing your anxiety and teaching your toddler emotional regulation....and reducing his/her at the same time. The sitting version I used for my grandson when he had a tantrum and his backside immediately hit "the chair".....and the deal was, breathe with grandma and when you are ready and calm, you may get down....worked like a charm.....We'd breathe together and honestly, I hate screaming kids....so it was helpful for us both.

Mindwalks, self-hypnosis, mindfulness...call it what you want, imagining your sacred garden or safe space, can be done using art....first...draw your safe space.....it is easier to imagine things with eyes closed....because that filters out all the visual noise.....but you can draw your imagination of a safe space-because you can already think and create pictures in your head......of the coolest safe place....the ideal....You can think your safe space with your eyes open......and you can use it without all the mental eye closing journeying-but it might be a bit more challenging unless you focus on something in the room. Just some ideas. I think mindful activities in the long-run allow us to modify our thinking.....in a safe place.....from black and white thinking....to gray....because if we create a safe space in our head...then we can look at reality and tease out what is real and not real, and we feel safe in the moment. I have a safe place in my imagination.....and it has been the one thing that I control, I created, and use to help me reduce PTSD symptons and self regulate, and solve inner problems with my parts. For what it's worth....