Does PTSD cause Narcissism

[Anon1]

PTSD is an incredibly selfish disorder… as is any condition inflicting pain.

Generally speaking, I expect the same of a person having a bad time with their PTSD as a woman giving birth, or a man having their arm cut off, or a parent losing a child, a rape victim bleeding cum out of every orafice… IE virtually nothing whatsoever. Because all of their focus, is surviving the next few seconds. There is no future, no past, just now, right now, and nothing exists except pain, blinding, irrational, unending pain.

Reliving, instead of remembering, is a brutal thing.

How one HANDLES pain, however, is an entirely individual thing.

But Friday - help me understand here, because your posts usually emphasise personal responsibility, and a kind of "No excuse for abuse" ethos; but what you're describing here sounds awful - and like it'd be nearly impossible not to be abusive towards other people.

How do you square the circle there?

 

[Friday]

@Anon1

Let’s do “story time” first! Then my answers to your Q’s (and the post you’re quoting) will probably make more sense.

***

3 people leave a wedding ceremony, swiftly, but quietly.
3 people who know them, follow, to make sure everything is okay. (As one does!)

Person 1 is found in the restrooms, puking their guts out. Whether from food poisoning, flu, migraine, or hangover? They felt a wave of nausea come over them and left to manage it. The person who follows them reassures them that they will make their excuses, and to just take care of themselves, and do they need a ride home or did they want a cab called?

Person 2 is found at the Main Entrance, on the phone with 911/999/112 as their water just broke and they’re in labor, or they’re starting to have a heart attack, or their inhaler isn’t stopping their asthma attack, etc. The person following them out waits with them, until ambulance arrives, then goes and makes their excuses inside / informing anyone who needs to know to go to the hospital/ etc.

Person 3 is found out in the parking lot smoking, or in the bar drinking, or in their car listening to music, or on the street flagging a cab. The person following them tries to talk with them, to get them to come back, reassuring them that everything is okay, it’s not that much longer, they’ll have fun, if they could just try to for so&so’s sake, if/and/but/because/maybe/please/c’mon… and is shut down, and ignored at best. Or lashed out at / shouted at / grabbed up by the front of their shirt and pushed away/ stormed away from/ cried on/ etc..

Person 4 (Wait! Didn’t you say 3 people left the wedding???) Person 4 Never. Made. It. To. The. Wedding. The people who know them TRIED to get them to come, tried to reassure, tease, cajole, promise, assuage, entice, everything in the book to try and get them to come. And either Person 4 agreed and didn’t show up, or flat out refused.

^^^ What is the difference between these 4? ^^^

People AUTOMATICALLY KNOW that the first 2 people left the wedding for good reason, and are not coming back, and that’s a good thing! They should NOT come back to the wedding. Nope, nope, nope! Good decision to leave, the moment they did (if not earlier!), better decision not to return.

Because people understand, from both experience & observation, that vomiting and medical emergencies… need to be handled NOW, and cannot be controlled. The body? Is. Doing. Its. Thing. The very best we can hope for is to make the best decisions about how to manage that.

The second 2 people are ALSO dealing with the body doing its thing… but that’s not immediately understood/recognized by most people.

- So MOST PEOPLE are not going to see/understand much less know/agree the person left for good reason (and are left with WTF did you leave for?!?), and are going to attempt to try to get them to come back inside. Because that’s the right/decent/good/respectful/caring thing to do (and to not return is the uncaring, disrespectful, selfish asshole thing to do. So are you gonna do the right thing, or be an asshole?).

- Even people who love them, and understand what’s going on (from personal experience, or observation), have ALSO seen them deal with “worse” with infinitely more grace/poise/strength. And, in their own judgment, usually know when its Coin in the air as to whether or not this is one of those times, and just needs a push/reminder/catch/joke/timeout/etc. whatever the “thing” is, that helps… or… whether a meltdown is imminent and to STAY BACK… or… It’s Goodnight Irene and to step in and get them home, now. So? It’s a valid thing to ask or try to help them through, if they feel like it’s a coin in the air. (More than likely, they’ll be shit on, either way; you didn’t even boooooother trying to help, you don’t care, I don’t mean anything to you -vs- why the f*ck can’t you just trust me, you make everything worse, if I actually meant anything to you you’d f*cking listen to me. So a great many supporters err on the side of trying to help, in the best way they know how. Including walking away.)

***

 

[Friday]

How do you square the circle there?

Self control.

As someone WITH PTSD, it’s my responsibility to remain in control, and if I cannot, to remove myself until I can regain it.

As someone who loves others, with PTSD, when I see someone fighting for control? It’s very much like finding someone puking in the bathroom, or giving birth, or any other “good reason” for GTFO & plans for the day changing on a dime. Okay! So this is happening!

So MY EXPECTATIONS of someone in pain? Whether it’s a flashback, or giving birth? Informs my thoughts & actions. How I approach, or not. What I bring to the table, or not. (I’m not going to have a deep difficult discussion with someone in pain, or slap down our taxes, be heartbroken/insulted they left the wedding and. decide. now. is. the. time. to. tell. them. how. I. feel.). It’s ALSO NOT jumping up and down in my chair waving my arm to “Pick me! Pick me! I wanna be the punching bag! Hit ME! Twist my arm! Make me pay! Spew your most hateful vitriolic verbal abuse at me!” nor excusing anyone who chooses to attempt to use me as such. <<< Expecting someone to be hair triggered & explosive? Is different from being a doormat.

but what you're describing here sounds awful - and like it'd be nearly impossible not to be abusive towards other people.

Not in my experience.

Ask any paramedic, ER doc, L&D nurse… people in pain? Lash out. There is a huge difference between that and targeting someone to hurt, to make yourself feel better.

Almost impossible not to be SEEN AS an asshole, selfish, self-centered, uncaring, disrespectful… like by leaving a wedding (or not even bothering to show up!)… “for no good reason”.

But ABUSIVE? Pfft. Not impossible in the least. Does it happen? For sure. Especially by a) abusers & b) people who are “new” and haven’t learned self control, or to recognize when they’re losing their self control & to take steps.

In my experience, most people -even/especially “new” people- even start to raise a hand/voice at someone & recoil in horror, and make it mission one NOT to do that. <<< CAN that become the cycle of abuse? Absolutely. Does it usually? No.

 

[Anon1]

Self control.

As someone WITH PTSD, it’s my responsibility to remain in control, and if I cannot, to remove myself until I can regain it.

As someone who loves others, with PTSD, when I see someone fighting for control? It’s very much like finding someone puking in the bathroom, or giving birth, or any other “good reason” for GTFO & plans for the day changing on a dime. Okay! So this is happening!

So MY EXPECTATIONS of someone in pain? Whether it’s a flashback, or giving birth? Informs my thoughts & actions. How I approach, or not. What I bring to the table, or not. (I’m not going to have a deep difficult discussion with someone in pain, or slap down our taxes, be heartbroken/insulted they left the wedding and. decide. now. is. the. time. to. tell. them. how. I. feel.). It’s ALSO NOT jumping up and down in my chair waving my arm to “Pick me! Pick me! I wanna be the punching bag! Hit ME! Twist my arm! Make me pay! Spew your most hateful vitriolic verbal abuse at me!” nor excusing anyone who chooses to attempt to use me as such. <<< Expecting someone to be hair triggered & explosive? Is different from being a doormat.


Not in my experience.

Ask any paramedic, ER doc, L&D nurse… people in pain? Lash out. There is a huge difference between that and targeting someone to hurt, to make yourself feel better.

Almost impossible not to be SEEN AS an asshole, selfish, self-centered, uncaring, disrespectful… like by leaving a wedding (or not even bothering to show up!)… “for no good reason”.

But ABUSIVE? Pfft. Not impossible in the least. Does it happen? For sure. Especially by a) abusers & b) people who are “new” and haven’t learned self control, or to recognize when they’re losing their self control & to take steps.

In my experience, most people -even/especially “new” people- even start to raise a hand/voice at someone & recoil in horror, and make it mission one NOT to do that. <<< CAN that become the cycle of abuse? Absolutely. Does it usually? No.

Thanks for the reply!

What I took from your post is:

PTSD/C-PTSD can cause people to lash out or behave badly sometimes because of the intense pain associated with the condition; but that doesn't make it okay.

People can help by showing understanding, which isn't the same as being a doormat or enabling.

Ongoing patterns of abuse are different, because that's not just about a 'once in a blue moon' being kind of an idiot to an understandable level in extreme circumstances; but it's more about a pattern which hasn't been interrupted (and which needs to be).

At that point - whether a person fully realises it or not - they're making a decision to allow a pattern to perpetuate, and that's a problem.

Is that kind of it?

 

[cptsdandme]

Several months ago, during a heated, petty argument- I made the mistake of telling my s/o that she was a narcissist. I hadn't really thought of narcissism in such a way, believe it or not, before a few years back that my Mom who was in her 70s at the time stayed over, and my s/o told me after that she was a narcissist. My Mom is a hapless person whose actions are selfish, although she clearly does "love" me and my brother etc... (that's another story). I am now, after a horrible fight this morning... stumbled upon a few cpstd threads- and things "clicked". I cannot exactly backtrack on the feeling at times, that she's shows narcissistic behaviors, but see more clearly now what is behind that.

During these fights though- I generally say things like "I don't think you listen to me", and my "complaints" are pretty consistent where-as she often pulls out painful things I've shared with her, to buttress whatever "argument" she is trying to make such as in that previous argument where she brought up the fact that when I was at my Mom's prior, that I told her I was busy cleaning up after her as she had diarrhea (she texted me asking what I was "up to"). My Mom is more ill now and 80, and I hardly want to share all the gut wrenching painful things I am going through at the moment, being a p/t caretaker. Well, this morning both of us yelling, and saying mean things- I left the house went to a Starbucks and tried to do some research as to what exactly is going on in our heads.

My Mom was a terrible alcoholic growing up, and I feel like the perfect "victim" for one in a relationship with someone w/ cptsd as I am hardwired by my upbringing, to try to smooth things over, give re-assurance, not talk too much about my "actual" feelings etc., likely as a result of needing to be hypervigilant to my Mom's alcoholism as a kids (hiding her car keys, listening for her to fall out of bed, etc.). Oh well... I likely made another faux pas this morning, as after I sat in the car and collected myself I sent her this message: "I am sorry I hurt you so much and don't often know how to respond to you often. It will likely be taken as an accusation but you clearly are suffering with cptsd. I clearly have my own childhood trauma which doesn't make my ability to help with that ease for me" and I get back... "ok great so you are the psychiatrist analyzing me..." and all sorts of other more angry texts.

My Mom, who I already mentioned- and love despite having deep resentments towards is really suffering at the moment, not sure if this is a long or short road to the "end" but I already felt so overwhelmed by dealing with this situation, all I really want from a person (relationship) in regards to this is to be able to come home and metaphorically put my head on their shoulder, but sadly I know that ain't going to happen anytime soon... more often than not I get attitude or curt questions for not being my chipper self, which often seems to annoy her as well.