News Donald Trump's Popularity To Date

[Deleted member 12723]

I understand your questions @Justmehere , and I understand your fear and what iffing? I think that this is a thread about the popularity of Trump, and I have so much to learn still. But I do not trust the liberal media at all because of its leftist bias.

I think that Russ has a gift for expressing what I am unable to so I think that I will bow out of this thread.

 

[scout86]

so I think that I will bow out of this thread.

I hope you won't do that! I think everyone involved in this conversation is sincerely interested in the welfare of this country and I can't see where asking questions and searching for the truth is ever a bad thing. I appreciate that you're looking for information and hope you stick around, even if you don't think you do a good job of expressing yourself. (I think you do fine!)

 

[RussH]

I think Trump has very clearly expressed his desire to protect the constitutional rights of all of our citizens. @Justmehere how exactly will he destroy our constitutional rights?
I have to leave for work in a few minutes, but I will respond with a little detail of how the liberals have undermined our rights later tonight when I get home.

 

[scout86]

@RussH , the link she posted is an interesting article, when you get time to look at it. It answers your question.

Have a good day!

 

[Justmehere]

@gizmo - Just to be clear, my post wasn't directed at any one person. It was perhaps was a bit too out of context as to my thought process. Please don't go! I think you have contributed a lot of great input here, and I hope you continue to join in whenever you feel comfortable to do so. I also respect any choice you make for what is best for you. You have asked great questions and have had great input. You are so welcome here. You communicate in a great way.


To better clarify my post (which I might just be mangling it more):

There is a danger in "what if-ing" and I was very hesitant... This particular "what if" is part of my process of trying to understand the phenomenon of Trump's popularity.

It's not very popular for any side to say hey, we have to limit our powers because eventually we won't be in power, and we don't want the "other side" to have the same level of power we hope to have. Instead, Trump leads from a position of basically saying he will take all the power. So if Hillary and the Dems are to be feared (which I am not saying I agree with or not), then perhaps the path of operating the role of president with more and more power out of fear of the "other side" isn't the best idea. Eventually, the other side will probably be in power again.

It's not a very solid argument, but it is something in the mix of all the many other things I have been thinking through. I want a leader who will limit his role and thinks about what he can't do. That isn't Trump.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Thank you both very much. I so appreciate your welcome. I appreciate this very much. I have refused to watch the news for the past three years because I was a caregiver for my husband who had dementia and I had to have the news on all of the time because that was the only program on tv that he could actually follow and after he died, I was so burnt out on the news that I took a three year hiatus. I am just getting my feet wet so again I really appreciate your welcome.

 

[Justmehere]

@RussH - In addition to that article, there are many other examples I could give if you want.

What he wants to do the freedom of the press alone is very concerning. Another source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...curb-press-freedom-libel-laws-first-amendment

Has Trump ever said anything like, "actually, the constitution doesn't allow the president to do that"? Or "The president doesn't have the power to do that so I can't do that when I am president"? Pretty much never. If I am wrong, please let me know. I don't know of everything Trump has said, but I have searched for this, and I haven't found it.Trump is know for his bravado about all the massive power he will have, and this is certainly what people are attracted to about him.

The constitution, and especially the bill of rights, all about limiting the power of government. Not giving it more and more power.

You know who has said things about how to limit the role of government? Cruz. The guy Trump's team lead everyone to boo off the stage for telling the audience to "stand and speak and vote your conscience up and down the ticket and for candidates who you trust that will defend our freedom and be faithful to the constitution." The crowd was shouting "we want Trump" while one of their own party leaders was calling for everyone to defend the constitution.

At the RNC, Trump didn't demonstrate himself to be a man who can even tolerate people in his own party who say to vote your conscience. Have a roll call vote. Vote for the person "YOU trust who will defend the constitution."

Trump has already changed the Republican party to be one that now boos "be faithful to the constitution." Granted, there is backstory, but actually makes it worse, not better. Getting revenge gets us to a place where masses of people booing "be faithful to the constitution." Trump, and the masses of people following him, didn't defend it the constitution in that moment. They put supporting Trump above supporting a call for defense of the constitution.

Two other people who have admitted the president has limited powers:
Obama (http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ation-of-powers-can-restrict-a-bad-president/)
and
Clinton (https://www.gop.com/five-times-hill...wanted-to-limit-a-presidents-executive-power/) They at least make the claim the president is limit in power.

In contrast to Trump's style of leadership and example set forth at the convention, we have the example (and lack of popularity) of what the #neverTrump delegates did about Trump coming to speak at the convention. These are the very people Trump tried to silence earlier in the week. There was heavy debate about what they should do. They considered a lot of options, including walking out on Trump speaking. Booing him. Etc. They believe very strong things against Trump and some are publicly declaring that the GOP and the republic is over now that Trump is the nominee. And yet, they still did not actually try to silence Trump.

This info is posted on Kendall Unrah's FB page (one of the strongest anti-Trump delegates who is a high school teacher) and this is info that is viewable to the public. For the last night of the convention, the night that Trump spoke, they gave their seats to alternate delegates who supported Trump. They didn't act to silence Trump or his supporters. They gave these folks who traveled thousands of miles a chance to be on the convention floor themselves and hear Trump speak.

They limited their own power, their own benefits of that power, to do what they thought was right, good, and fair for everyone.

That takes courage, and I have yet to see Trump act with that kind of courage that isn't threatened by the voicing of alternative ideas. Even horrible ones.

 

[Justmehere]

I think that everyone has a bias and I think that I will research what you reported

It is important to realize everyone does have a bias, including all of us on this forum. I try to own and admit my bias as much as I can and continually consider info from sources that have a different perspective than my own.

Most humans have what is called a "confirmation bias." We tend to look for info that already supports what we believe. It doesn't make us bad people, it's natural human behavior, and it's good to be aware. I really commend everyone on this thread for engaging in this discussion because it gets us out of seeing everything through the lenses of a confirmation bias. I know this may not seem like a big deal to you all, but compared to most online dialogues about these topics (which I tend to avoid like the plaugue), this is one of the best public online dialogues I have seen in the past year.

I completely agree with this. We can all disagree, but disagreeing does not have to mean being hateful. It use to be a time in our congress that people from both sides would strongly disagree with one another in the house, and be good friends outside of the office.

I agree with this 100%. Trump leads in a way that does not agree with this. He goes after his rivals, again and again, and he never really moves on. He did this in business too, with reporters who reported negatively about him. Especially women.

I think Trump has very clearly expressed his desire to protect the constitutional rights of all of our citizens.

Can you explain more? I’m interested and I’ve looked for this.

There was one time when I thought this evidence was out there, and my heart was for a second relieved to think… maybe I’m wrong about Trump, maybe he can lead well. It quickly became clear just a few second later that the article was satire, and not real. But, I mention this to make it known, I want to be wrong about Trump. It would be a relief.

@Justmehere I will respond with a little detail of how the liberals have undermined our rights later tonight when I get home.

Now on topic, but change of subject. Several of you have had negative comments about Trump's statement about his daughter, but no one has said anything about the several women who have accused Bill Clinton of rape, and Hilary seemingly to overlook it.

I haven’t written much of anything about Hilary because for me, what liberals and Hilary are or are not doing doesn’t change my opinion about Trump.

I respect though that you are in the position that Trump is a less bad option than Hillary, and that’s why we should give Trump more power. A lot of people in the GOP share this viewpoint.

However, I tend to agree with a blogger (who writes this from a religious/Christian perspective) at this site: http://www.epm.org/blog/2016/Mar/21/donald-trump-character, who wrote: “I can’t be held hostage to the pervasive viewpoint, “To criticize or oppose Trump is to support Hillary Clinton.” We dare not act as if any presidential candidate is immune to or above biblical principles and moral standards just because we may (rightly) oppose other candidates.”

Voting for a president, or anyone, is basically hiring someone to lead you. We send the message, "I support this person's leadership" when we vote for them. We send the message to others that what the person stands for is what we want. We lend them our power with our votes. I would die for my right to vote.

For argument’s sake, let’s say that Hilary is absolutely a worse choice. This simply isn't a persuasive enough argument for me to participate in giving Trump my vote and the power within that vote. I need to see enduring evidence he can lead large groups of hotly divided people to move forward together in a good and healthy direction.

He campaigns with no fear or restraint because he has absolutely no funders he's accountable to. But does that make him a better candidate for president, or just a really rich guy who can apparently even railroad through his own political party, because of limitless resource?

I think this is a really good point. As others have pointed out, Trump is raising money now. But, I don’t think new accountability to funding sources will change Trump's way of leading. He lost a heck of a lot of money when he entered the race, made comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists and "some I am sure are good people" --- and many businesses stopped doing business with him. Did he change anything? No, he doubled down on his remarks about immigrants.

He is a new type of leader in recent American politics, but we can compare Trump as a business leader with other business leaders. Trump himself believes he has a distinct way of doing business, because Trump University was all about teaching it to others. Something a lot of people wanted to buy, and many have regretted purchasing.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

This is just my opinion okay? I do not agree with the blogger and what she had to say as I am not religious although I have a private faith that I practice in my life.

I do not think that all of the supporters of Trump are stereotyped as I read so much from black conservatives today. I was actually getting some very long unanswered questions answered with common sense.

Our presidents in the past are riddled with scandals and Trump is not hiding anything about himself which I find refreshing.

I am not a racist and I have long been disillusioned with the GOP. Years of the status quo and I am so fed up with buisiness as usual so if some leaders are so offended by Trump I say good riddance. I have always believed that lifetime politicians need to be voted out and the president should only be allowed to be president for four years.

The more I look online the more I support Trump and I do plan on voting for him, not because I do not want to see Clinton in office she very well may be elected, but I do believe that Washington insiders and the politically correct movement has totally been a fail. Things are worse than they have ever been in my opinion.

I have looked into Black Lives Matter and they are racist, and the ones in college protesting that no chains on us are from rich families so they can attend these elite collages. What chains.?

I think that for so many years I have not felt as if my views mattered and I have hope in Trump that he will surely shake things up in the US and I believe that it needs a good shaking.

I learned that the reason that the wall Trump proposed to build will change the electoral areas. There is so much information out there and the middle class is not as stupid as portrayed because people now have access to all of this information and there is a groundswell of people in this country sick and fed up with the status quo.

 

[Justmehere]

@gizmo - your post is very thoughtful and insightful. Thanks for writing out what you did. It's helpful to read to be able to understand better, even when we don't agree. I'm really thankful for your posting.

I absolutely agree that the folks that support Trump are indeed a very diverse group of people, and while I do believe trump leadership promotes racist ideas, supporting Trump doesn't automatically make one a racist.

I also think that the black lives matter movement is a pretty diverse group of people and with a lot of subgroups involved - some good, some bad – but I think that is another topic for another thread? Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just missing how it fits in with the rise Trump? Is the popularity of Trump a backlash against BLM protests? I actually know Trump supporters who also protest with black lives matters events. They are both different versions of trying to change the establishment, the status quo.

Trump has been seen as the antiestablishment candidate. I can agree that politics as usual does need to change, but I'm looking for the kind of change that goes in a direction that I can support.

With the amount that Trump has been involved in politics over the years, I've never really seen him as antiestablishment. I'd love to understand better why people think he is the way to change the establishment. Talking bluntly and not having a history as an elected of official isn't enough for me as evidence that someone is be anti-establishment in a positive way. I saw him in 2005 at a business conference. I was so confused about why he was talking nothing to politics at a business conference. He was quite heavily involved in exercising political power through donations and activism, and posting about it in his speech at the conference. I understand better why he was speaking about it at a business conference now. Politics is about where we place power and how we use it. Money, in many ways, is power. Politics and business are not that separated in our country.

We have some very difficult days coming ahead as a nation, and we need a leader who will lead us towards kindness and love towards each other, unite and build us up as a country. I haven't seen up from Trump. Has anyone else? Where and how do you see that with Trump?

 

[Deleted member 12723]

@Justmehere thank you for the redirect on Black Lives Matter and I appreciate getting back on topic. I think that the lawless groups of Black Lives Matter is what is so upsetting to many people of color as well from what I read and heard today and so Trump calling for law and order is so long overdue.

I think that as a buisiness man Trump will run the country within his limited powers as a buisiness. So far anyway from what I have seen myself of the man, he is an open book and has been through so many phases in his life and has made mistakes as well. I can see why he is so scary to people as well. What about personal accountability, I still have questions about him that are unanswered.

I do believe that the war on drugs is wrong and I am sorry that Trump will continue the war if elected.

There are things I agree with him and things I do not like about him as well.

He has even donated to the Clintons if I am right on what I read. He is vulgar and crass and that is a shame, because that is upsetting so many people but I cannot support the Clintons or Obama although I did vote for Obama.

I think the policies of the currant president in how he is handling things over sees is a total fail and I believe he is rather naive as many around him are. I thought that Obama would unite this country and he has only succeeded in dividing it furthor in my opinion. Total fail and I am so fed up with both many of the democrats and GOP.

I do not know if Trump has love and kindness right now, but I do know that Clinton has no love for the people as I have found her to be so dishonest and greedy and above the law that I believe it is time for a real change. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If he does get elected, who knows it may be a fail as well and he could possibly be impeached if he oversteps his bounds.

After the way Bush was treated and the hypocrisy of the left and right, I am so disgusted with the status quo.

Thank you for being so gracious in the way you spoke to me I really do appreciate it so much and I am really trying to see without judgement and use my common sense at the same time as well.

 

[sedna]

This is just my opinion okay? I do not agree with the blogger and what she had to say as I am not religio...

@gizmo, as I said earlier, I'm running out of free time to hang out on here at all hours like I have since I joined, I'm self conscious about my long opinions too. I wanted to share a few things here, because I liked your post and JMH's response.
I usually try to quote info from objective sources, Trump facts from liberal sources like Huffpo are easily ignored and the same with democrats and redpress.

Because I'm pressed for time I have to go with a liberal paper for a ref. here but politicus usa found 21 fact checked proven lies in Trumps acceptance speech, they site the source of the fact checking, which is mostly neutral and independent sources. I'm giving just one example, because it refers to the heart of why the middle class and blue collar worker sees hope in him.

DT claims: Clinton plans a massive tax increase, I have proposed the largest tax cut of any dem. or repub. candidate running in this election " middle income Americans will experience profound relief and taxes will be simplified for everyone.

Fact: Trumps tax plan would mostly benefit those at the very top of the income distribution, and the resulting job losses from his economics policies would most effect those in lower and middle income households. { Moody's Analytics Report 6/20/16 } MAS is a finance and economy corp that is independent and a leading corporate financial planner in the U.S. It's findings are hard to argue with.

21 lies that are proven to be untrue in a Repub. nomination speech is not a great sign, not least because he said them, but more that he didn't refrain from saying them when they could be proven to be untrue by the next day. That kind of Hubris is what makes a lot of us nervous, not the actual lie per se.

I only wanted to point that out because you said the fact that he doesn't lie was a selling point for you. I'm not trying to change your mind or argue with you, I hope you know. I think my most personal ptsd type reaction to Trump is really because I was married to a slick corporate guy with no conscience and I react badly to the manipulations on top of the blatant BS. But that is just me.

If much of what Trump says does not hold up factually as he promises them, they will never be put into practical application obviously. I feel that is where he gets his votes, not from rednecks and prejudice people. (as I so obnoxiously implied yesterday, sorry again. ) I'm going to use another stereotype as analogy here, God help me, but it reminds me of the sad middle aged divorcee that's run out of hope and some slick player comes along, convinces her he's the real deal and makes a bunch of promises, then runs off with her savings. ( I'm a sad middle aged divorcee, so its ok I used that one )

My 18 year old is voting for Trump, I haven't tried hard to talk him out of it, its his right to make up his own mind about things, just like everyone else. He asked why I didnt like him, then just said never mind after about 3 minutes . I bet he'd like Russ. :whistling:

I agree that Black Lives Matter is prejudice, the movement. Not necessarily every person holding a sign at a rally. Some of these people have experienced valid injustice personally and they have a right to help make a change. Where I live there are bigger problems with Hispanic law enforcement officers targeting white kids, reverse discrimination is out of control also.

I'm actually glad Russ mentioned the Southern attitude about the Confederate flag, there's an element to that I had long forgotten about. That flag solely represented ignorance and violence to me, based on how I had seen it displayed in my neck of the woods. There is more to it than that, and we forget in this big country, that others experiences are very different than what we're used to.

The Civil War is not something we think much about on the west coast, but it's fascinating history and not just about freeing slaves. I should have thanked him but at 4 am I was having trouble focusing my eyes and covered in oreo crumbs. :)