Estrangement From Toxic Family Members

[blynn895]

I have recently had to cut off contact entirely with my adult daughter, which has been very painful for me. But she has been very nasty to me in the past 6 months, seems mad at me for having problems, ie depression, ptsd. I also separated from her step father in the summer, and she is furious with him (was due to some infidelity on his part). She seems to be projecting all her anger on me lately, no idea why. I think I have been a good mother to her, in fact too good sometimes. She has PTSD as well, has started therapy for this, as well as going to 12 step meetings. It seems the more help she gets, the more she seems to hate me.

I know I'm taking care of myself by backing away from her right now (I have enough problems without being emotionally abused by her), but its still hard, I love her so much. I am estranged from most of my family for the same reasons plus non belief in what happened to me, I never thought I'd have this relationship with my daughter, we have always been close.

Just wondering how many other people with PTSD have had to either leave behind toxic relationships with their family or friends once in recovery, and how you deal with it. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mina]

Hi, Blynn895 - I'm sorry to hear you're going through this, as it must be very painful. I cut off from most of my family a bit over 2 years ago, although that doesn't include any children (don't have any). I know there are a bunch of folks on the forum who've done the same thing, although I don't know how many are currently active...but please know you are not alone. I am lucky in that I have my husband, my in-laws, and my friends - anymore, family is who I choose it to be.

Is your daughter willing to talk to you about why she is so hostile? Or can you share a therapy session together to discuss it? Perhaps she is blaming you for her PTSD or other struggles or past mistakes, and you are unaware of it. Maybe there is a chance for you to find out where her hostility is coming from...even if it doesn't resolve things between you, or you don't agree with what she says, you might feel less "in the dark" about her behavior.

 

[anthony]

You aren't alone, my wife had to do the same thing... because at the end of the day it comes down to making a choice between:

1. Put up with and accept the toxicity of the relationship and that they will not change, or
2. Remove yourself and accept that they will not change and are toxic to your being.

It really is that simple of a selection. You either accept them for who they are, or you remove yourself.

Either way, it not your fault for making a decision that you feel is in your best interest. Still though, never makes it easy either...

Nicolette's family are toxic to her. They really are. There are a couple of non-toxic members, though they chose a side to support their toxic parents over her words of the abuse they put her through. Basically, the couple of good kids made a decision that their parents are right, even though they know the facts, they chose to live in denial regardless for that family connection.

The only right or wrong for anyone who does this, is that they accept their choice and are happy to live with it, without constant negative emotion and dwelling on their decision.

 

[Philippa]

Yes, I cut off all contact with both my parents and one brother.

I still maintain contact with my other brother, but only because he has shown me that he has matured a lot and whilst he can still be an ass sometimes, it's not to the same degree as my other brother, and not the same degree of emotional abuse, gaslighting and manipulation that my parents inflict on me.

I know the brother I stay in contact with knows what's going on with my parents...and even the brother I cut off knows too, but he just can't seem to stop himself from being a twisted, manipulative, dangerous person to me...so I can't have anything to do with him anymore. He's had enough chances...and more than he deserved.

It has been really hard though. It's not an easy thing to do and nor is it easy to unwind the 35 odd years of bonding that are hardwired into my brain from spending day after day with them as a child and young adult.

I know I did the right thing, but I still have trouble with it, because I know they aren't bad people as such, just very f*cked up. Still, I can't really justify placing myself in their line of fire...even though I do miss them at times. I was telling my counsellor today that I am not mad at my father anymore, and even feel like I would like to see him...and I think he probably knows deep down why I chose to not speak to him for this past year...but he's so stubborn, it might never happen that he can bring himself to verbalize it to me.

It took him ten whole years to apologize to me for not believing that I was clinically depressed, and not taking it seriously at the time. It wasn't much good to me to hear it ten years later...but at least he did admit it. It's more then my mother has bothered to do...but she always did prefer to keep her head in the sand like an ostrich.

You're not alone.

 

[Gamereign555]

I actually just faced up to the fact that I was putting up with a very unhealthy friendship. It took me meeting another person who treats me like an actual person to admit it to myself.

I do have a girlfriend of 6 years now and she is everything to me of course. But ever since I moved away from my hometown where I grew up and relocated to where my girlfriend lives, I found myself feeling alone and without something. That comradery that you get when you are hanging out and talking about the job or the truck, or the newest construction project one of us is working on.... it's hard to explain.

I ended up being friends with a neighbor down the street, it is a couple and they were basically using me for money. I would always loan it out to them or be okay with them not paying me back this time...as if that was normal. After opening my eyes I know that they ultimately only care for themselves and knew that I was just a way for them to get high longer before having to worry about their own bills. I can tell these people aren't interested in having a conversation with me or doing anything other than trying to get that next $20 I earned at some point. God how foolish I am, what else am I going to find now that I can see further into my own understanding.

At least I can say that I am through getting used like a dying persons credit card, just to feel like I belong to something. I am not sure why I felt the need to have bad friends rather than have no friends.

 

[AngelaMarie]

I cut off from everyone in my past life little by little. Most of my family I cut off from 6 years ago. Then just a short while ago it was my two oldest sons. I hadn't had contact with them for years and they contacted me on facebook. I was happy about that. However, they ignored me and disrespected me and I found out they were in constant contact with the family that abused me so terribly. I couldn't do it anymore. I had to make the decision to cut off permenantly from them and move on for the two boys I am raising now.

The last and final cut off was a couple of weeks ago. It was the bio-grandma that raised me. She told me on the phone nothing happened to me when I was growing up. It was all in my mind! That was it. The final toxic person was finally gone and now I feel I can move on.

I also had a neighbor that was so toxic! All we did was smoke and drink together. We have no contact any more and I have quit smoking and drinking!

A lot of us had to make a decision to walk away to keep our sanity and stop the cycle of abuse! It's hard, but you have to take care of yourself! I wish you the best of luck in healing. Keep taking care of yourself!:)

 

[Pale Warrior]

Ditching my poisonous, controling, lying mother was the final step in my battle with the past. One of the best days of my life. When I realised there was nothing I could do to change her I gave up, threw her out of my home (she was visiting), closed the door behind her and got on with MY life.

That was nearly 10 years ago and I have not one regret. What does bug me is when chums start on about her, "don't you worry about her?", "you only have one mother" and all the "unconditional mother love" b*lux.

When I say that she cared more for her dogs than her child, they look at me in disbelief - as if I am the odd one.

Hey, I still have the darkness inside me and the dreams but I can manage them so much more easily with the monkey off my back. Cut out the cancer and heal!

Courage and confidence, x

 

[IamMe]

Hi Blynn,

In reading your post I was actually reminded a bit, as much as I hate to admit it, of how I treated my mother. I hated my mother for years and the more therapy I went through the more angry I got at her. I actually moved over 1200 miles away from my mom and that helped a lot. My mom was never diagnosed with PTSD but she had a lot of trauma when she was younger that she has never sought conseling for and this meant that even though she tried her absolute best to be there for me, she wasn't capable of giving me what I needed emotionally. I blamed her for pretty much everything that happened to me when really it wasn't all her fault but because she was my mom and I knew she would love me no matter what I took a lot of things out on her. She was a "safe" person for me to take my anger out on and I did have a lot of reasons to be mad at her but some of my anger was definitely misdirected.

I spent many many years in counseling to get over my anger at her and now we actually have a decent relationship. Giving yourself and your daughter space is probably the best thing for both of you even though it is one of the most painful things to do. There is hope if you are both working on your own issues that in the future you can come together and revisit your relationship. It took a lot of really hard conversations over the past 3 years with my mom and both of us swallowing a lot of pride to move past things but I am happy to say that we now get along. I moved 1200 miles away when I was 25 and I am now 29 just for a time frame reference. Through counseling I have been able to accept her emotional limitations and she actually accepts mine too now and in that acceptance of each other we are growing together, there is still a lot of hurt but at least we have been able to move past the anger.

Wishing you strength and courage!

 

[Philippa]

That gives me some hope IamMe.

The swallowing pride part is the hurdle we have both not been able to quite get over as yet. The difference with my relationship with my mother is that I'm the one with ptsd, and she is the one who expected ME to be her mother after her mother died. I was having a hard enough time looking after myself, but she took it as a sign that I wasn't being supportive enough of her. (which may indicate her own projection at feeling that she wasn't able to support me enough, and felt guilty for that??) Human's are so complex aren't they.

I do not think as much about how she thought I was faking being suicidally depressed, or that she actually got mad at me for wasting her time dropping me off at the mental health centerwhen she was in the process of moving house. Gee, sorry my suicidal tendencies are getting in the way of you moving house mom...how terrible of me! Ok...well, maybe I do still think about it.:(

 

[IamMe]

Philippa I am glad to have given you some hope.

Pride is such a difficult thing. The other hard part is that there is that fine line between swallowing your pride and setting yourself up for abuse. It was a struggle to figure out where my boundaries need to be with my mom.

I actually relate to what you are saying about your mom wanting you to be the mom, that is part of what I went through with my mom and why I had so much anger at her. My mom actually got angry with me when my brother died and said if I had not let him move in my my dad he might still be alive. She got angry with me for not being there for her when he died. I was 17. She wanted me to "mother" her in that time of need when I desperately needed her to be my mother, not the other way around. She also used to send me upstairs to bring the rent check to her uncle, the man who sexually abused me because she was afraid of him. She was completely incapable of putting my emotional needs before her own. When I would come home crying at 3am because I was living with an alcoholic, abusive boyfriend she would yell at me for waking her up. I have to say in a conversation I had with her years later she told me her yelling at me actually came from a fear for my life, she was so scared for me but she didn't know what to do or how to tell me that so instead she just got angry at me and took it out on me.

Setting boundries with her helped me deal with this. I learned that it was really ok for me to not be there for her, I needed to be there for me. If she and I ever had a shot at healing our relationship, I had to heal myself first and so I set boundaries with her. I decided that I wasn't going to give her the right to be a part of my emotional life until she earned that right back. It made me feel so empowered to "protect" myself from her, to not "mother" her and let her stand on her own. At first I felt like such a horrible daughter. People would make comments like, "but that's your mom", "how can you not be there for your mom". My response....at least in my head..."how could she not be there for me?". I had to "show" her that I wasn't going to allow her to abuse me anymore. In my case my mom never intentionally abused me she just had and still has a lot of her own issues, but standing up to her made me strong and made her realize what her role was in our failing relationship.

I still know she was wrong but have more compassion because as I have grown up I realized that she was actually hurting as much as I was.

I have learned what she is capable of giving me and for me personally, I decided it was better to accept her for her who she is because, in my case, I know my mom loves me and she did the best she could, even if her best wasn't enough for me growing up. Maybe part of my empathy for her comes from being a mom myself now, I have a son who is 16 months old and it made me realize how deep a mother's love runs and I realized that she was hurting just as much as I was because of our damaged relationship. Yes she was responsible for a lot of the damage but I was in a position to forgive her. I found a lot of strength in forgiving her and in forgiving myself.

I know not everyone is fortunate enough to end up where I am. I do give my mom credit for eventually acknowledging that she was not able to be there for me. I am blessed that my mom was able to grow.
I still have a lot of boundaries, mostly unspoken and personal, with her but now I can say I love my mom and I do actually call her for advice from time to time and she is quite helpful. I don't know if we will ever get to the place where we say "I love you" but you never know.

It's interesting, my mom actually said seeing me grow and change and work through my emotional issues and setting my own boundaries gave her pause and made her reflect on herself. She said my change and determination was a catalyst for her to look at herself. I made the decision to swallow my pride first and eventually mom did the same.

I am reminded of Ghandi's quote.... "Be the change you want to see in the world" I guess I took that to heart and tried to "be the change I wanted to see in my relationships". Again, perhaps my glasses are rose colored, but I do think if there is any bit of love left and if both people are willing to work on their own self then there is always hope.

 

[Philippa]

Pride is such a difficult thing. The other hard part is that there is that fine line between swallowing your pride and setting yourself up for abuse. It was a struggle to figure out where my boundaries need to be with my mom.

Oh yeah, it has been that as well for me. That was the main reason actually, that I stopped calling her...the silent treatment she would inflict, and the mind games and infantizing me when I'm 37 years old for goodness sake. The emotional blackmail and then turning around and having the gaul to tell my brother that SHE can't be bothered with me. Why? Because I no longer allow her to walk all over me and give into her anymore? How terrible of me.

There has been a LOT of bad behavior on her side of the fence, but I haven't been completely free of bad behavior myself...it just hasn't been AS frequent as hers has in the last 15 years. I do realize she has a LOT of issues though, and that she never confronts them, and may never. I've had to place boundaries up in the meantime and it's been tough to be "the bad daughter" in everyone elses eyes...or the "ungrateful" one...'But she's your mother"...yeah, I know. If she's my mother than how come she's acting like I'm HER mother and she's the child but accusing ME of acting like a child? It's screwy.

I actually relate to what you are saying about your mom wanting you to be the mom, that is part of what I went through with my mom and why I had so much anger at her. My mom actually got angry with me when my brother died and said if I had not let him move in my my dad he might still be alive.

That's hard. I'm sure she really blamed herself for that...as mother do, but it got too uncomfortable, so you were a convenient scapegoat for her pain and helplessness.

She got angry with me for not being there for her when he died. I was 17. She wanted me to "mother" her in that time of need when I desperately needed her to be my mother, not the other way around.

Oh that sounds all too familiar. I was suicidally depressed, and she expected me to be her mother! She fell apart after her mother died, and I get that she was grieving and wasn't coping very well, but was in denial and not reaching out for help. She wasn't much good for me either, so it was kinda the ultimate kick in the guts ot be told that I wasn't supportive enough to her. I'd done my best to help her by listening and being there for her...but I was very troubled myself, and she wasn't even remotely noticing it. The last 15 years or so her self-centredness seems to have increased tenfold...to the point where no one else even exists it seems.

She also used to send me upstairs to bring the rent check to her uncle, the man who sexually abused me because she was afraid of him. She was completely incapable of putting my emotional needs before her own.

That's terrible. I'm sorry you had to endure that sort of betrayal from your own flesh and blood. That's just so screwed up.

When I would come home crying at 3am because I was living with an alcoholic, abusive boyfriend she would yell at me for waking her up. I have to say in a conversation I had with her years later she told me her yelling at me actually came from a fear for my life, she was so scared for me but she didn't know what to do or how to tell me that so instead she just got angry at me and took it out on me.

It's interesting how the way people react emotionally to us can sometimes mean a totally different thing to what it appears.

I was going to say I had a similar experience, only living with this complete creep of a beast...but it was actually nothing like what you went on to describe here.

I came home one night after having stared down a would-be attacker hiding behind a bush near an alleyway in the middle of the night...as I was forced to walk home after my manager at work said he'd drop me home but instead, dropped me off on the freeway 6 blocks from home, drunk and high...and no cabs would stop for me...so I walked and nearly got attacked.

The person I was living with at the time came out from his room and yelled at me, while I was sobbing and distressed from nearly having been taken by a stranger to god knows what fate...and all he cared about was that I was scaring away his potential root manifested in the 16 year old nubile swedish girl traveller he'd picked up at the markets that day, who was sleeping on the couch at the time! There was no comfort...just more evidence that no one gave a shit about me.

It was yet another instance where I received the underlying message that my emotional world and my life were not as important as someone elses selfish needs and desires. I seem to have had that my whole life...but no one can ever convince me that it's true. My feelings and my world and life are just as important as everyone elses. Why is it that no one else can grasp that truth?

Setting boundries with her helped me deal with this. I learned that it was really ok for me to not be there for her, I needed to be there for me. If she and I ever had a shot at healing our relationship, I had to heal myself first and so I set boundaries with her.

It's interesting how these instincts over-ride out programming to give into our parental pressure to please them at our own expense. At some point it's just obvious that we cannot continue to play along with their terms and their bullshit.

I decided that I wasn't going to give her the right to be a part of my emotional life until she earned that right back. It made me feel so empowered to "protect" myself from her, to not "mother" her and let her stand on her own.

I had the same thing. It's a great feeling...although it was very hard to overcome the "horrible daughter" thing, I agree.

"how could she not be there for me?". I had to "show" her that I wasn't going to allow her to abuse me anymore. In my case my mom never intentionally abused me she just had and still has a lot of her own issues, but standing up to her made me strong and made her realize what her role was in our failing relationship.

We teach people how to treat us...that's just how it is. The sooner we learn this lesson, the faster we can begin to put up appropriate boundaries. that we know are right for us...regardless of what anyone else thinks, or chastises us for. Eventually they learn, and they will know that we were right all along.

I still know she was wrong but have more compassion because as I have grown up I realized that she was actually hurting as much as I was.

I think I'm starting to get this a bit more than I did a while back.

I have learned what she is capable of giving me and for me personally, I decided it was better to accept her for her who she is because, in my case, I know my mom loves me and she did the best she could, even if her best wasn't enough for me growing up.

This is an important turning point. I've sort of come to this conclusion, although emotionally I haven't completely resolved it in myself...I still hold a bit of a grudge unfortunately.

Maybe part of my empathy for her comes from being a mom myself now, I have a son who is 16 months old and it made me realize how deep a mother's love runs and I realized that she was hurting just as much as I was because of our damaged relationship. Yes she was responsible for a lot of the damage but I was in a position to forgive her. I found a lot of strength in forgiving her and in forgiving myself.

I'm not a mother, but I have reached this stage now, and I'm willing to forgive both of us. I'm tired of holding onto the crap and hurting myself more for doing it.

I know not everyone is fortunate enough to end up where I am. I do give my mom credit for eventually acknowledging that she was not able to be there for me. I am blessed that my mom was able to grow.

That's so awesome.

I hope my mother can have the same realization...or if she has, be able to at least admit it to me. It might help? Did it help you that she did?

I still have a lot of boundaries, mostly unspoken and personal, with her but now I can say I love my mom and I do actually call her for advice from time to time and she is quite helpful. I don't know if we will ever get to the place where we say "I love you" but you never know.

My mum always said "I love you' and while I was a child growing up I believed her...but her behavior over the last 15 years has not been very loving, so it is hard to believe that she means it when she says it and isn't just saying empty words...but I know that she is very f*cked up.

I'd prefer she didn't say it unless she really meant it though. I didn't love her for a while...and I am not sure how I feel about her now? She just feels so distant from my life...like she isn't even there anymore. It's gone beyond being mere strangers. It's like she just doesn't exist?? It's very weird.

I found a picture of her the other night when I was sorting through some stuff, and it was a really sensitive moment. I couldn't look for long, and I brought the envelope of her picture into my room. I will look at it one day and really allow myself to feel everything I feel. Right now just typing this out I feel the familiar sense of reverence for her being my mother...for bringing me into this world...so I guess that is a good sign!

It's interesting, my mom actually said seeing me grow and change and work through my emotional issues and setting my own boundaries gave her pause and made her reflect on herself. She said my change and determination was a catalyst for her to look at herself. I made the decision to swallow my pride first and eventually mom did the same.

Wow...that sounds like my dream fantasy version of what I so very much would like my mother to say to me. You're very lucky.

I am reminded of Ghandi's quote.... "Be the change you want to see in the world" I guess I took that to heart and tried to "be the change I wanted to see in my relationships". Again, perhaps my glasses are rose colored, but I do think if there is any bit of love left and if both people are willing to work on their own self then there is always hope.

I did this for a while, and it worked wonders back when I was in my late teens, so maybe I will take heed and be inspired to try this again?

I haven't wanted to out of spite, or childish holding onto pain and stubbornness...but I do remember when I was making so much progress in my healing years ago, and this really helped things.

Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[IamMe]

Not sure I did that right.......My reply looks strange I was trying to just copy parts of your post and reply to each part like you did to mine...What did I do wrong?