Faith/ Hypocrisy/ And Faith

[Lucycat]

I was a firm believer, until I got my diagnosis of CPTSD. That turned around my whole view on life. Suddenly I was forced to face my past, and I soon realised that my use of religion was merely a coping mechanism. Just like I used alcohol too.

I don't need it any more, and far from feeling lost, feel absolutely liberated! I find it offensive that loss of faith is considered in the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. I think use of religion is more a symptom, than loss of faith.

In the past 18 months I have read many books on the subject, and my life has opened up. I have also been able to share my atheistic viewpoint with my friends, in a way that I could never share my religious beliefs before.

I don't ever want to get myself back into that way of being controlled, albeit by very kind well-meaning people, who think they know best because they believe god has shown them the way.

I respect everybody's right to believe or not. What I object to, is the notion that some people have that they should 'convert', or try to 'save' others. I also find it very sad that, on the whole, society is not open to frank discussions, such as this thread, and often people on one side or the other take offence and it all becomes very unpleasant.

I would like to congratulate everyone who has contributed to this thread for keeping it an honest discussion.

 

[heidi]

They say 'there's a God-shaped hole' in everyone's heart only (that) can fill. I think one thing for certain, ptsd leaves lots of heart holes- we can all empathize with each other in that respect. In many ways I don't think it's left me with a single thing not either taken, compromised or impacted, in some way.

You're such a good writer, Junebug. I'm very impressed by this discussion.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh Heidi- Thank you, but lol- I write and express myself about as good as I can sew ( :eek:) - and let me just put it this way, if our lives depend on it WE'RE IN REALLY BIG TROUBLE.. :)

 

[heidi]

I'm erasing my post in this thread. Great job everybody though.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Ayesha,
I wonder, are you in your annual days of fasting?

No, that starts tomorrow. I have never had any problem with it.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

What I found Ayesha helps me to remember also (when I can) is that, borrowing someone else's words as regards ptsd:
"Suicide is not a treatment option".

And also kindness from others when I am not able to be kind like that to myself.
Or understanding. -I'm not sure what it is.

Maybe the temptation is in the ~giving up- you haven't 'done' anything wrong to have thoughts of it plague you.
Maybe if you feel it's inevitable then it's a sign you have to ask for help (I know that's very hard when 'we' feel like we have no worth/ are a bother/ are 'damaged').

((((Hugs))))

I haven't been feeling suicidally...just depressed. Even with my mood meds. God, I don't even want to be normal...but to be happy and live on.

 

[freakofnurture]

technically there's only Hypothetical Hypotheses that must be followed by 'Alternative Explanations' to question any conclusion reached- no matter how 'certain' it may appear.

Sure, you always have to ask which other explanations there could be for a correct prediction. That's one of the basics of robust research.

But there is a singular, real, absolute reality in existence and it is possible to get very close to it. This is the case when a theory fulfills the four criteria of 1. continuing to survive excessive testing over the course of significant advancements in the power, sophistication and precision of tools, the discovery of new phenomena in its sphere of relevance, and the birth of new, related theories, 2. exerting great explanatory power by deepening the understanding of a phenomenon and its place in the context of adjacent and dependent phenomena and scientific fields, 3. opening entirely new avenues of research, or even giving birth to completely new, fruitful scientific fields, and 4. being practically applicable in the development of new research tools as well as everyday appliances for the comfort and benefit of the general public.

Once a theory is this far advanced you can be very certain that the only thing happening to it will be its embedding in the context of an even broader theory, its expansion by the addition of more mechanisms, or its refinement to incorporate newly discovered phenomena and increasingly precise measurements.

For example: What Newton found out about Gravity is still correct; it wasn't falsified by Relativity, it was just shown to be incomplete and not exhaustive. Evolution by Natural Selection was expanded by the finding that selective pressure on individual traits is only one of a whole host of mechanisms working on different levels and in different circumstances. The Big Bang Theory has been tested and refined through the measurements made by every new generation of space telescope; it will be expanded (no pun intended) and certainly at some point completed by the findings of String Theory or one of the Multiverse Theories, but it is pretty unlikely that it will be falsified.

I've also heard it said, that for some the more that is discovered the more they believe it 'proves' an absence of 'God' or a higher being;

Which is a stupid thing to believe, really, because you cannot prove a negative. You can only falsify the predictions made by the God-Hypothesis and provide more powerful explanatory models to replace it with.

for others the more that is discovered the more it proves to them how only a Higher Being could have created and maintain such.

98% of the researchers who make these discoveries are atheists.

 

[Mercy]

98% of the researchers who make these discoveries are atheists.

Yes, they are when they make the discoveries and then.......they stay that way for a while.

 

[Mercy]

Also, I don't get this crucifixion thing at all. I mean, if god wants to inhabit a human body and then have it killed for the thrill, why not? He could have changed the rules without this bloodshed, too, but if he's kinky like that, who am I to object?

Another thing: Jesus-God was seen alive and well after three days. How is it a sacrifice if you don't actually give something up?

OK, Let's see if I can untangle some of this.

The purpose of Jesus becoming human was to unite his fully human nature and fully God nature in one being (hypostisis).

He was crucified, how else can God die; sickness - nope, old age - nope, accident again - nope.

He died and went into hell as a man and set all the captives free.

He rose again. Being God, he could not remain dead.

Something had changed; he could walk through locked doors, disquise himself so that not even his closest friends could recognize him until he chose recognition. His body was different yet he ate, and was solid for Thomas to touch.

Here we get to the main point. When Jesus rises back into heaven, [heaven only knows how far he went], he made a path for all to enter heaven/ paradise forgiven, welcome, and finally at home.

Those who chose to join themselves, their human nature, with Jesus are choosing to be united with him in his divine nature. This is a function of Communion/Eucharist. A famous theologian said," God became man so that man could become god." Meaning, people can learn to become more like Jesus in this life by trying.

In Orthodox Christianity, we have the concept that all our life we are on a journey to become closer and closer to God. This is all given by God as grace, we cannot earn our way into heaven. We choose to work at this growing closer through our actions towards ourselves and others. This is called Theosis. We believe that this 'becoming' is continuous and is not interrupted by death.

Your use of the words 'god's self harming' we translate as voluntary death to secure a clear path of forgiveness back to God, once for all time and for all people.

Freewill is a necessary gift since love that is coerced is not love. I agree that people who have been victimized by war, natural disaster, or human desecration cannot have a truely freewill since so much of their thoughts and behaviors are directly linked to their suffering and brokenness. Hooray for 'therapy'.... the act of working out our suffering until we can act and think in full unlimited freedom.

"We love God because he first loved us." Regarding the varied history of any particular human life, the freedom to chose to love and be loved is ours alone.

 

[heidi]

I never understood how the crucifixion was supposed to free man. My friend explained to me that it's because it was a human sacrifice? Like a blood sacrifice? I was baffled, but he was like of course..what do you think communion is.
So basically animal sacrifice is everywhere in the old testament. The smell of burning animal flesh was often said to please god. So is it true that this Crucifixion of jesus was a human sacrifice to appease the god? Perhaps I'm still getting it wrong. Like I said I really don't get the idea of crucifixion and how that saves men from sin.

 

[OKRADLAK]

I am quite amazed that my little thread has gotten so deep and profound. Quite amazing!! You are all very smart. I think PTSD can make people pretty sharp with those neuronal clusters. Do carry on..........:)

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear Fon, please forgive me- 'to prove a negative' etc,- you are very correct. My brain isn't what it used to be, especially trying to express myself.

I wasn't going to add anything, but I guess I just want to say- only as regards myself- ptsd stripped me of hope, peace, trust, love and joy; it did give me despair, rage, and hell-on-earth, however, -amongst other things. For me, "God" fills questions I can't find the answers to, and a strength and safety- not a 'sense' of safety but actually so, that I didn't have before.

Somewhere, to me, the horrible things do not make any sense for me without God- not vice versa. So for me, it's more a relationship, and up to me to choose to trust, etc. Not avoid the hard questions, but to avoid the hard 'actions', which ptsd took from me, like trusting.
And now I feel joy, a lot more peace, and I'm still 'here', even if it's no thanks to me.

So yep, I guess I do believe on the basis of faith.
I think, like others said, whatever works for a person is great, that is what each of us has to follow.