General Feedback On Visitation With Alcoholic/ptsd Ex

[Livy's Mom]

Hey everyone. I'm really struggling here.

If you read my backstory my situation is my sufferer now ex, has PTSD AND Alcoholism. I have been to a lawyer and was waiting for an intervention from his family before I made any kind of moves with how to manage visitation with my daughter.

Well as I fully expected the attempt to get him into treatment was a dud and he has continued to deny both illnesses require treatment.

I had a previous conversation with him about the importance of being a 50/50 parent and not just seeing her whenever it inconvenient for him and for one day I thought he was gonna try but he didn't bother with her since that day.

Night before last I let my emotions overcome me and for the first time since he left I sent a scathing message. I realize this is counterproductive to everything good but I just lost control

He ignored the message of course but then text last night asking if it was possible to take her for the day. Then called and asked.

I have no idea what to do. Do I think he will be sober when he takes her...yes. Do I think it's healthy for him to just pop in and out of her life whenever it's convenient for his drinking habit... NO!

So what is this?? Is this me punishing him for his problems or am I really trying to protect her?!

I'm so very confused. I do still love this man and want our relationship. I'm afraid I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

 

[Casey_03]

I don't think this is you punishing him at all. I think this is simply you being acutely aware of his issues and the problems they may cause, and ultimately, yes, trying to protect her. Which is exactly what you should be doing. You are doing nothing wrong. Don't beat yourself up over this. What I see in this is you, deep down, feeling guilty because HE has problems. I was in a relationship with an alcoholic for several years and I remember doing ths exact same thing -- every time I'd try to set boundaries I'd feel this pang of guilt and pity somewhere deep down, and that would make me second guess my own decisions. It's part of codependency, and I think that is what you are experiencing. Honestly, make your daughter your first priority and if your gut tells you to protect her for now, do that. In the long run, thsi may force him to finally get help.

 

[Livy's Mom]

Thank you so much. When all was said and done, were you right? Did you make the right choice?

 

[Livy's Mom]

Actually a more appropriate question is how do I say it. My first instinct is to blurt out all the facts about how it is damaging her but I know he can't handle that kind of message.

Should it be a seek treatment and Jen you can? That seems way to aggressive.

I don't know how to say it.

 

[Casey_03]

Yeah, just trust yourself and don't let his issues make you second guess your decisions. That's part of alcoholism - the second guessng. That's why they call it a "family disease" - because it undermines and affects everyone and creates this poisonous atmosphere of doubt.

 

[Casey_03]

Don't say anything about how it could damage her - he'll see that as an attack. I would just keep it short and simple and say "I'd like you to seek treatment first." or "You need to focus on taking care of yourself first so you can be the best father for her." something lke that. But defnitely don't mention anything about how it could hurt her; he'll get defensive and see it as you attacking him, and for alcoholics that can trigger binge-drinking and chaos.

 

[Friday]

You can't have it both ways.

Which I think is at least part of what you're struggling with, right now.

You don't want him in your daughters life when drinking.
You also don't want him in your daughters life when sober (aka in & out).
So, essentially, you don't want him in her life at all.
But you want him to do 50%?

That's an impossible standard for anyone to live up to / you're going to tear yourself into knots trying to have it both ways.

So what's more important to you? That he's in her life when he's sober & doing well (aka intermittanly and you are the primary parent)... Or do you want him to take on 50% of the parenting time? (He may get this anyway, in an increasing number of states as long as *either* parent requests 50% it's automatically granted. Including in cases of child abuse, neglect, and alcoholism/addiction, with open CPS cases). I bring this up because you have an opportunity *right now* to set custody by agreement. As long as you both agree? Courts couldn't care less. The moment the courts get involved, things change. Setting it by agreement, however, requires that both parents actually agree. Which means if you set the bar impossibly high for him? The courts have a much lower bar. In both directions.

I'm not saying 'f*ck your kid and her safety & well being'. I am saying to be realistic. If you ban him from seeing her intermittently? He'll may very likely go after 50% custody and win. Conversely, if you insist on 50% when he's unable to meet that? That's just setting all 3 of you up for misery & missed time, also.

To manage "by agreement"... It has to work for both parents.

I know. This really, really, really sucks.

Distance. & Breathing. :) Not just for sufferers.

***

My suggestion is that you let him take his daughter for the day... On the condition that he's sober. If he's not? Document it & refuse. (Document-Document-Document is going to be burned inside your eyelids & eardrums after talking with divorced parents for even 5 minutes. For real. Document-Document-Document.)

 

[Livy's Mom]

@FridayJones Thank you, I think you hit it on the head when you asked what's most important to me.

Being an adult of an alcoholic father and OBVIOUSLY codependent, it's most important to me that he gets treatment and if he chooses not to then I don't want him around her. I know first hand what it does.

Not just the drinking but the casual effort from a father. It's very painful.

I made the 50% request because I'm so overwhelmed on top of still having all kinds of crazy mixed feelings about saving the family. I foolishly thought that he might do it thus forcing him to slow the drinking. I realize that's ridiculous but I'm flailing here.

I think the struggle internally is that I love him and desperately want him to be in her life so I swept his issues under the rug to keep us together. Now I'm looking hard at what is best for her. Not me and not him. If I really look at what's best for her I'm still confused because just because my father sucked Nd was a drunk does that mean hers will too??!!

Could I be robbing her of a relationship and setting myself up for a nasty conparenting experience OR is the way he is parenting REALLY going to f*uck up my kid!

@Casey_03 I totally get what your saying about how to deliver the message. I also have to remember although he is an alcoholic he is also in full blown PTSD symptoms.

God is it to much to ask that he just go away until he figures his own crap out so we don't have to struggle like this!!!

 

[Snowdroplets]

I'm not sure if you've already participated or if it's already been recommended, but I think Alanon could be extremely helpful for you and this situation. It changed my life and provides many tools and resources for understanding and relating to alcoholics. It's also all about the one thing you can control which is yourself and your responses to problem drinkers. I also learned a lot from the others in the group. I learned a lot about expectations, boundaries, communication, examining my motivations, etc. Just a suggestion!

You sound like a good parent trying very hard to love and protect your child. For what it's worth, I think you're on the right track.

 

[Livy's Mom]

First meeting is today 10am :)

I'm looking forward to it.

Thank you everyone!

 

[Friday]

First meeting is today 10am

One thing to remember at Alanon... Meetings all have different "flavors". Not just atmosphere & ambience, or the personalities/ages/etc. of the people there, or the general attitude (solution focused, horror stories, whiningRUs, welcoming, cold, etc.) ...and those affect "flavor" a lot!...but also who is the alcoholic in their lives?

The first several meetings I went to should have been rebranded Adult Children of Alcoholics. Absolutely no one in any of the meetings was dealing with anything current (everything was 10-20-50 years ago), and none with a peer/spouse (it was all parents & grandparents).

The next several meetings I went to there were spouses! Hurray! But all of their husbands and wives were in AA or NA. Most of whom they'd married after their spouse was sober / they married into the program. So, again, no real useful information in dealing with an active alcoholic, because they'd never dealt with one. Much less divorce issues, which was where we were heading.

It took several months to find meetings that had a blend of people including those who were either married to active alcoholics (or had been before they got clean), divorced from & shared custody with active alcoholics, or people in various states of transition (spouses maybe getting clean, separated, gettin back together, etc.).... as well as adult children of alcoholics, & married into the program. ((By then it was too late for me. I was moving into divorce & restraining order land, but that's just my luck ;))).

Point of this... If you don't find people helpful at the meeting? Meetings are all different. DO keep trying different meetings until you find a peer group that has either already been through what you're going through (the best!), or is going through it. Alcoholism affects people in a wide variety of ways, and birds of a feather... Mean that sometimes it can be a bit challenging in finding your people. Don't be discouraged.

((And, touch wood, since all this warning stuff is above? Maybe you'll get lucky!))

 

[Livy's Mom]

@FridayJones - I've not yet followed you on the forum but I intend to.

Your responses always have just the right amount of truth (Sometimes hard truth) but also just the right amount of sass that sparks something in my brain that says "hey you! still sitting there feeling sorry for yourself, pay attention!"

It won't be easy for me to be flexible with different meetings and times since I've got a toddler on my own at the moment but I HEAR you and if I leave today feeling like it wasn't a good fit, I will most definitely try again!

I don't know yet what your story is but I can tell that whatever it is and whatever point in recovery you are, YOU are a godsend for people like me